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Summer 2019 Roster Discussion

Bodhi said:
I wouldn’t read anything into the market with this.

Bledsoe is making a smart move and potentially taking a bit less to stay on contending team and not having to play the free agency game.

Smart for both player and team but not indicative of where the market is, IMO.
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Great post and so true.

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Bodhi said:
I wouldn’t read anything into the market with this.

Bledsoe is making a smart move and potentially taking a bit less to stay on contending team and not having to play the free agency game.

Smart for both player and team but not indicative of where the market is, IMO.
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Every deal that comes through is indicative of the market. Bledsoe's market value doesn't directly affect Brogdon's but will be used as a comp for Ricky and others.
 
All right guys, I'm going to eat some crow. We need to keep Favors. Yep, I'm one of Favors biggest critics because I don't like his fit next to Gobert. However, he is so valuable to us.

I don't want to pay him $17 million next year so I hope we can extend him at less but for more years. If we could sign him for 4 years $40 million, I think we should. Let him retire a Jazz man.

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LoPo said:
This Bledsoe deal makes me think it's more likely they keep Brogdon. With Bledsoe on board, now they have Brogdon, Lopez, Middleton, and Mirotic to keep. In my opinion, Middleton is priority #1 with Brogdon #2. Since they have Brogdon's RFA rights, they aren't letting him go.

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Why does allocating a good chunk of money to a guy at guard make it more likely they keep Brogdon? They have a lot of dollars to hand out and a lot of uncertainty and addressed one of the uncertainties. If anything I think it makes them less likely to match a big offer on Brogdon.
 
LoPo said:
All right guys, I'm going to eat some crow. We need to keep Favors. Yep, I'm one of Favors biggest critics because I don't like his fit next to Gobert. However, he is so valuable to us.

I don't want to pay him $17 million next year so I hope we can extend him at less but for more years. If we could sign him for 4 years $40 million, I think we should. Let him retire a Jazz man.

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I can see trying to re-negotiate something with Favors at a slightly lower # with more years, but 4/40 feels too low. 4/50 feels more like the right neighborhood.

And I don't see how anybody can say this isn't at least a slight increase in the chance the Bucks let Brogdon go. Before there was a reasonable chance they sign him and let Bledsoe walk, now there is a 0% chance that happens. At this point to bring everybody (Middleton/Brogdon/Lopez/Mirotic) back they're probably looking at something like 40M over the cap. That's a lot of cash to drop, that I don't feel comfortable betting on an ownership group to do until they prove willing.
 
Eminence said:
I can see trying to re-negotiate something with Favors at a slightly lower # with more years, but 4/40 feels too low. 4/50 feels more like the right neighborhood.

And I don't see how anybody can say this isn't at least a slight increase in the chance the Bucks let Brogdon go. Before there was a reasonable chance they sign him and let Bledsoe walk, now there is a 0% chance that happens. At this point to bring everybody (Middleton/Brogdon/Lopez/Mirotic) back they're probably looking at something like 40M over the cap. That's a lot of cash to drop, that I don't feel comfortable betting on an ownership group to do until they prove willing.
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A max for Brogdon and Middleton likely means they let Niko and Lopez both walk. If they find a home for Illyasova and snell they can likely retain all of them and still be okayish money wise. They are out of 1sts to send though... so it'd have to be Donte or DJ Wilson to grease the wheels. Not sure that is enough. Could stretch Ersan and get some relief.

I would have thought that this offseason they'd keep one of Bledsoe and Malcolm and one of Lopez and Niko.
 
LoPo said:
All right guys, I'm going to eat some crow. We need to keep Favors. Yep, I'm one of Favors biggest critics because I don't like his fit next to Gobert. However, he is so valuable to us.

I don't want to pay him $17 million next year so I hope we can extend him at less but for more years. If we could sign him for 4 years $40 million, I think we should. Let him retire a Jazz man.

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Ya I have come around as well.
He is still not an ideal fit but he is a fantastic player and person.
He would be so good as a starting 5 though. For his sake I kind of want him to leave so he can be featured more. If that's what he wants anyway.

He is having a career year despite being used less than ever basically. (Lowest minutes this season since he was 21 years old in 2012-13)
Crazy that he is only 27 years old.

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jjscap said:
This team needs an upgrade offensively and everyone is aware of it. The reality is no one can beat this GSW team of 5 all-stars and a mistake now would ruin everything. Also a small market club usually is forced to overpay players so every cent counts.

I don't think patience and frugality should be confused with other things especially when they make sense.

DL is bold enough. Utah's stars Gobert and DM have been acquired with the triggers he pulled, not to mention Coach Q.
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Taking a gamble with minimal moves late in the draft is hardly bold. Everyone has to admit that both of them could have just as easily flamed out. In fact Gobert was so raw he was a real question mark for the better part of 2 seasons. Getting lucky in the draft is not bold. That's bull **** and a cop-out. It's time he made a move, damn near any move. And his past history and M.O. do not indicate he will. I'm really afraid he will waste Gobert's peak years taking about how great it is to have cap space and flexibility and wanting to see what this team does fully healthy for once. It's about ****ing time for DL to actually swing for the fences even if he strikes out. Do SOMETHING!
 
LogGrad98 said:
Taking a gamble with minimal moves late in the draft is hardly bold. Everyone has to admit that both of them could have just as easily flamed out. In fact Gobert was so raw he was a real question mark for the better part of 2 seasons. Getting lucky in the draft is not bold. That's bull **** and a cop-out. It's time he made a move, damn near any move. And his past history and M.O. do not indicate he will. I'm really afraid he will waste Gobert's peak years taking about how great it is to have cap space and flexibility and wanting to see what this team does fully healthy for once. It's about ****ing time for DL to actually swing for the fences even if he strikes out. Do SOMETHING!
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I mostly agree with you in a general sense but you saying "It's time he made a move, damn near any move. And his past history and M.O. do not indicate he will." Isn't correct. So he made the gobert and DM moves, Ricky Rubio trade, George Hill trade, jae Crowder trade, and Kyle korver trade. Then you have some other minor things like I think he moved up to get Bradley, I think he let jerebko go and got sef, I think he picked up Joe Johnson. The roster has not remained exactly the same all the time. He has made moves. Just hasn't made any huge moves in free agency or trade (other than if you consider the gobert and DM moves huge). Then there is the Conley attempt which was a decent sized swing.

I do want to see him take a bigger swing though. Maybe he has taken big swings but it takes two to tango and those swings haven't been visible to the public

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Eminence said:
I can see trying to re-negotiate something with Favors at a slightly lower # with more years, but 4/40 feels too low. 4/50 feels more like the right neighborhood.

And I don't see how anybody can say this isn't at least a slight increase in the chance the Bucks let Brogdon go. Before there was a reasonable chance they sign him and let Bledsoe walk, now there is a 0% chance that happens. At this point to bring everybody (Middleton/Brogdon/Lopez/Mirotic) back they're probably looking at something like 40M over the cap. That's a lot of cash to drop, that I don't feel comfortable betting on an ownership group to do until they prove willing.
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Eminence said:
I can see trying to re-negotiate something with Favors at a slightly lower # with more years, but 4/40 feels too low. 4/50 feels more like the right neighborhood.

And I don't see how anybody can say this isn't at least a slight increase in the chance the Bucks let Brogdon go. Before there was a reasonable chance they sign him and let Bledsoe walk, now there is a 0% chance that happens. At this point to bring everybody (Middleton/Brogdon/Lopez/Mirotic) back they're probably looking at something like 40M over the cap. That's a lot of cash to drop, that I don't feel comfortable betting on an ownership group to do until they prove willing.
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Favors at $10 per the next 4 years is pretty fair. He might get more elsewhere, but he won't get that many years elsewhere and he says he loves it here. 4 for $40 or 3 for $35?

As for the Bucks, adding Bledsoe's new deal puts them at $70. They might be a luxury team for a year or two, but they say they are willing to pay the bill. Dumping Ilyasova or Snell helps them avoid a bad luxury bill. I think it comes down to Lopez vs Mirotic. They lose one of those guys.

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LogGrad98 said:
Taking a gamble with minimal moves late in the draft is hardly bold. Everyone has to admit that both of them could have just as easily flamed out. In fact Gobert was so raw he was a real question mark for the better part of 2 seasons. Getting lucky in the draft is not bold. That's bull **** and a cop-out. It's time he made a move, damn near any move. And his past history and M.O. do not indicate he will. I'm really afraid he will waste Gobert's peak years taking about how great it is to have cap space and flexibility and wanting to see what this team does fully healthy for once. It's about ****ing time for DL to actually swing for the fences even if he strikes out. Do SOMETHING!
Click to expand...

As a fan I would love to see him make a move too. Perhaps DL isn't too good at trade talks. Perhaps players don't want to come to Utah. Still standing pat because the right deal did not materialize when you're expected to "do something" is harder than making a move that will make most people happy but doesn't exactly fit the club's long-term plans. Some GMs tend to take the second option for job security reasons and it's weak.

Also Gobert has clearly improved this season and still has room to grow if you ask me. Not to mention the team's top offensive option is a sophomore.

We fans are reactionary but Utah is not in a desperate position to make a major move when their stars are developing and learning to mesh together and it's unlikely to beat the best team ever assembled in GSW this season and upcoming offseason should be interesting to say the least.
 
LoPo said:
Favors at $10 per the next 4 years is pretty fair. He might get more elsewhere, but he won't get that many years elsewhere and he says he loves it here. 4 for $40 or 3 for $35?

As for the Bucks, adding Bledsoe's new deal puts them at $70. They might be a luxury team for a year or two, but they say they are willing to pay the bill. Dumping Ilyasova or Snell helps them avoid a bad luxury bill. I think it comes down to Lopez vs Mirotic. They lose one of those guys.

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They basically can't re-sign Lopez. they don't have bird rights so can only offer like $4-5M per year. Handing out max deals to Middleton and Brogdon leaves them at about $133M with 10 guys. That is the tax level. Now they lose both stretch bigs or go deep into the tax. Shell out 15-20M for Niko and you are looking at 20-25M over the tax... are they willing to pay 40-50M in tax in addition to 155M in salary? They have paid luxury tax exactly once.

Every owner says they will pay... but what they do is more important. Houston owner said they didn't even think about luxury tax in the offseason... literally every move they have made has been with the tax in mind... even converting a two way deal into a real NBA contract was declined when because of it. Wizards cut salary hard to avoid tax.

If they match and bring back Niko they will make a salary cutting move or end up using one of those guys as an asset. I don't believe they will cut that check.
 
jjscap said:
As a fan I would love to see him make a move too. Perhaps DL isn't too good at trade talks. Perhaps players don't want to come to Utah. Still standing pat because the right deal did not materialize when you're expected to "do something" is harder than making a move that will make most people happy but doesn't exactly fit the club's long-term plans. Some GMs tend to take the second option for job security reasons and it's weak.

Also Gobert has clearly improved this season and still has room to grow if you ask me. Not to mention the team's top offensive option is a sophomore.

We fans are reactionary but Utah is not in a desperate position to make a major move when their stars are developing and learning to mesh together and it's unlikely to beat the best team ever assembled in GSW this season and upcoming offseason should be interesting to say the least.
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Good post.

If we strike out with big free agents, I think we need to use my 3 pick strategy - turn 2019 pick into a 2020 better 1st and turn cap space into another 2020 1st. Use our 2020 1st along with the 2 acquired 1sts to go after a proven commodity to put next to Gobert and Mitchell.



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fishonjazz said:
Ya I have come around as well.
He is still not an ideal fit but he is a fantastic player and person.
He would be so good as a starting 5 though. For his sake I kind of want him to leave so he can be featured more. If that's what he wants anyway.

He is having a career year despite being used less than ever basically. (Lowest minutes this season since he was 21 years old in 2012-13)
Crazy that he is only 27 years old.

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I love Favors and what he brings, I just wish he’d be ok as the primary backup to Rudy with some starts depending on matchups, but the way Locke talks about it he’d take it as an insult or we’d “lose” him and that bothers me. I feel similar about Rubio.

If we could get a second scorer/ball handler next to Donovan and a good stretch-four type ie Harris with Favors and Rubio off the bench, that’s pretty good. Brogdon would be so good with Mitchell.

So my “ideal” offseason would be adding Harris and Brogdon while keeping Favors and Rubio who both agree to lead the bench. Not going to happen though.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
They basically can't re-sign Lopez. they don't have bird rights so can only offer like $4-5M per year. Handing out max deals to Middleton and Brogdon leaves them at about $133M with 10 guys. That is the tax level. Now they lose both stretch bigs or go deep into the tax. Shell out 15-20M for Niko and you are looking at 20-25M over the tax... are they willing to pay 40-50M in tax in addition to 155M in salary? They have paid luxury tax exactly once.

Every owner says they will pay... but what they do is more important. Houston owner said they didn't even think about luxury tax in the offseason... literally every move they have made has been with the tax in mind... even converting a two way deal into a real NBA contract was declined when because of it. Wizards cut salary hard to avoid tax.

If they match and bring back Niko they will make a salary cutting move or end up using one of those guys as an asset. I don't believe they will cut that check.
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You might be right. I just feel that the Bucks will go with a horrendous tax bill next year knowing the luxury threshold goes up the next year and Ilyasova goes away.

They won't keep Brog, Middleton, Lopez and Mirotic but I think they keep Brogdon. We could offer the max and force their hand, but would he even sign that with us?

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Could we decline Favors option, renounce him, and then bring him back for a 4 year deal on the full MLE? I’m thinking that would be something around 40 million in value, but maybe I’m wrong.

I still want them to guarantee his second year during the draft, and then trade him and our 2019 1st to Atlanta for Taurean Prince.
 
LoPo said:
You might be right. I just feel that the Bucks will go with a horrendous tax bill next year knowing the luxury threshold goes up the next year and Ilyasova goes away.

They won't keep Brog, Middleton, Lopez and Mirotic but I think they keep Brogdon. We could offer the max and force their hand, but would he even sign that with us?

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For 4/100M yeah I’m sure he’d sign. He may want more responsibility too... which he’d get here. I think he’d sign it no sweat. Their luxury tax issue may not disappear either unless Giannis leaves... in which case they are screwed. He will get a big bump in pay in a couple years.

I don’t know what they will do but bringing everyone back ain’t happening... they will have to choose... they made one of those choices already with Bled.
 
I'd forgotten the Bucks didn't have Lopez's Bird rights, that makes Mirotic a must bring back for them imo.
 
fishonjazz said:
I mostly agree with you in a general sense but you saying "It's time he made a move, damn near any move. And his past history and M.O. do not indicate he will." Isn't correct. So he made the gobert and DM moves, Ricky Rubio trade, George Hill trade, jae Crowder trade, and Kyle korver trade. Then you have some other minor things like I think he moved up to get Bradley, I think he let jerebko go and got sef, I think he picked up Joe Johnson. The roster has not remained exactly the same all the time. He has made moves. Just hasn't made any huge moves in free agency or trade (other than if you consider the gobert and DM moves huge). Then there is the Conley attempt which was a decent sized swing.

I do want to see him take a bigger swing though. Maybe he has taken big swings but it takes two to tango and those swings haven't been visible to the public

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I know he has made moves but they've all been of the "maintain the mediocrity" variety, as all of them you noted really had no chance of legitimately moving the needle. Made the safe moves. It's time he made some big moves. And I disagree about his "hidden" swings. I think 90% of the time things get leaked. Yet we never, or rarely, hear leaks about the jazz except for the moves like for Rickie that also made the news. I think they just don't throw much out there so it doesn't get to hype level. I want to see them try to sell the farm for once, not just trade cows around.
 
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