Summer 2019 Roster Discussion

[Jingled]

I think it's fair to say DL is one of the more conservative GM's in the league.

 

[DasJazz]

Of the guys that are likely gettable... I think we'd have interest in -

- Bledsoe
- Randle
- Niko
-Bojan
- Brogdon - i think he can be had for big overpay... maybe
-Rudy Gay
- Danny Green
- Aminu
- Ross - Maybe... he's like a good shooting AB... kind of a space cadet.
- Ariza
- Satoransky
- Matthews
- Beverly
- lamb
- Bullock
-Parker
- Lin

If we added a top target or a combo of 2 of those guys I'd be satisfied. Like I think we could steal Niko or Randle and get a decent wing upgrade like Ross/Green/Bullock. Could also have enough dough to get Bojan and Rudy Gay... if our big game hunting goes poorly I think there are still some options to change the mix a bit.

I'd be happy with a combo of any 2 of those guys. I think that would be a big push in the right direction for us as a formidable playoff contender. Plus 2 for the price of 1 is always good!

 

[infection]

What is the riskiest move DL has done?

Sacrificing multiple assets to move up a couple spots and draft Bradley.

Also, selling off early second round picks is a pretty risky move. It doesn’t have any upside, but it’s got a decent amount of risk.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think it's fair to say DL is one of the more conservative GM's in the league.

I don't know on the comparison league wide... would have to think about it. Just to be clear to those that think it's a criticism... it isn't. Being conservative is good and bad. I'm pretty risk averse financially and have watched a few people go up in financial flames... I've seen a few make a crap ton of money. I'm happy with my situation.

DL has kept us out of trouble, but now it might be time to really take some risks.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Sacrificing multiple assets to move up a couple spots and draft Bradley.

Also, selling off early second round picks is a pretty risky move. It doesn’t have any upside, but it’s got a decent amount of risk.

I think it might be pushing all in on Hayward. Could have traded him rather than made moves to appease him (which would have been risky too). Going to the wire with Hayward and making a trade right before his free agency for a pg he liked had some risk.

 

[infection]

Danny Ferry now interim GM of NOP. If we want to get Jrue, then it’s time to hire Shaq as a consultant.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think this indicates they will re-tool around Holiday. Depending on what they get in the draft and in the trade I think its a good call. Not sure NO could handle "the process".

 

[infection]

I think this indicates they will re-tool around Holiday. Depending on what they get in the draft and in the trade I think its a good call. Not sure NO could handle "the process".

They’ve got a plethora of second round picks. More than they could every use. We could trade Bradley for a couple of them and then sell them for cash.

 

[David Stern]

In fairness, there really hasn't been a great opportunity for DL to take a major risk. We've been rebuilding/retooling for as long as I can remember. Bringing back this team as-is was a good move for this season. I'm not even really that disappointed in not making a move at the trade deadline, because most of those trades were an overpay for expiring contracts. The Conley deal would've probably been a bad deal if it was Rubio/Exum/1st.

But, now there's pressure. We've got cap space, we've got all our picks, and we HAVE to take advantage of it this offseason. I just doubt if he'll actually be able to pull the trigger on something that will really help the franchise long-term, unless he feels like he's getting someone for pennies on the dollar.

 

[infection]

In fairness, there really hasn't been a great opportunity for DL to take a major risk. We've been rebuilding/retooling for as long as I can remember. Bringing back this team as-is was a good move for this season. I'm not even really that disappointed in not making a move at the trade deadline, because most of those trades were an overpay for expiring contracts. The Conley deal would've probably been a bad deal if it was Rubio/Exum/1st.

But, now there's pressure. We've got cap space, we've got all our picks, and we HAVE to take advantage of it this offseason. I just doubt if he'll actually be able to pull the trigger on something that will really help the franchise long-term, unless he feels like he's getting someone for pennies on the dollar.

I’ve made the analogy before to coach-pitch baseball where the kids don’t have balls or strikes but have a maximum of 7 pitches. He didn’t like any of the previous 6 pitches — many times for good reason, some for debatable reasons — but now he’s down to his last pitch, and because he didn’t bite on any of the others, he’s forced to swing on the next pitch, regardless of what it looks like.

Hello, Kevin Love.

 

[LoPo]

DL hasn't taken risk?

Lmfao

He is pretty safe:

- Didn't move Hayward - it wasnt risky staying with Hayward, it was stupid. Every sign pointed to an exit.

- Lyles and a later pick to move up was a no brainer because we didn't like Lyles.

- Hood for Crowder wasn't risky because we had targeted Crowder years prior and Hood was unhappy.

- 2nds and Burks for Korver was safe because we knew exactly what we wanted from Korver and we sell off 2nds anyway

- everything about summer 2018 was safe

- We got Hill for Hayward and the only risk was that he was a rental which he ended up being. It wasn't risky, it was foolish to give up a late lottery pick for one year of an average NBA PG. .

- space and a pick for Rubio might be the riskiest move of his tenure. Still, we desperately needed a PG due to the failed Hill experiment so really it was as much damage control.



Our only risky type moves have been trading late or nonlottery unknowns for average PGs or Lyles and a late unknown pick for an earlier pick.

As for foolish moves, he has a bunch of those: letting Millsap, Carroll, and Hayward leave for nothing. Once again, a risky guy overpays to keep them or trades them instead of just losing them.

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[Handlogten's Heros]

I’ve made the analogy before to coach-pitch baseball where the kids don’t have balls or strikes but have a maximum of 7 pitches. He didn’t like any of the previous 6 pitches — many times for good reason, some for debatable reasons — but now he’s down to his last pitch, and because he didn’t bite on any of the others, he’s forced to swing on the next pitch, regardless of what it looks like.

Hello, Kevin Love.

Because you have been prophetic before I am going to mentally prepare for Kevin Love and really talk myself into the deal.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

He is pretty safe:

- Didn't move Hayward - it wasnt risky staying with Hayward, it was stupid. Every sign pointed to an exit.

- Lyles and a later pick to move up was a no brainer because we didn't like Lyles.

- Hood for Crowder wasn't risky because we had targeted Crowder years prior and Hood was unhappy.

- 2nds and Burks for Korver was safe because we knew exactly what we wanted from Korver and we sell off 2nds anyway

- everything about summer 2018 was safe

- We got Hill for Hayward and the only risk was that he was a rental which he ended up being. It wasn't risky, it was foolish to give up a late lottery pick for one year of an average NBA PG. .

- space and a pick for Rubio might be the riskiest move of his tenure. Still, we desperately needed a PG due to the failed Hill experiment so really it was as much damage control.



Our only risky type moves have been trading late or nonlottery unknowns for average PGs or Lyles and a late unknown pick for an earlier pick.

As for foolish moves, he has a bunch of those: letting Millsap, Carroll, and Hayward leave for nothing. Once again, a risky guy overpays to keep them or trades them instead of just losing them.

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When risky things break the wrong way you can't deny the risk taken by saying it was stupid or foolish.

I'm fairly sure Millsap Carroll were under KOC's reign primarily. That is a tired argument anyway because we turned the space into 2 firsts... If we could have gotten a first to move them pre-deadline we prolly would have done it.

DL has been fairly risk averse... not straight scared. He's missed some opportunities to "be aggressive". Trading the 14th pick for Hill was aggressive and paid off... injuries obviously limited it's effectiveness.

He's probably on the conservative end of the spectrum... not always bad. Billy Knight was pretty aggressive/risk tolerant... Isiaih Thomas was too. There are some good risk takers too, Masai comes to mind. We are now one really good move away from being a conference finals type team... that move may not fall in our lap... might have to take a couple risky swings. IF DL doesn't have the juice to land the free agent we best hit on a pick or make a phenomenal trade.

 

[infection]

When risky things break the wrong way you can't deny the risk taken by saying it was stupid or foolish.

I'm fairly sure Millsap Carroll were under KOC's reign primarily. That is a tired argument anyway because we turned the space into 2 firsts... If we could have gotten a first to move them pre-deadline we prolly would have done it.

DL has been fairly risk averse... not straight scared. He's missed some opportunities to "be aggressive". Trading the 14th pick for Hill was aggressive and paid off... injuries obviously limited it's effectiveness.

He's probably on the conservative end of the spectrum... not always bad. Billy Knight was pretty aggressive/risk tolerant... Isiaih Thomas was too. There are some good risk takers too, Masai comes to mind. We are now one really good move away from being a conference finals type team... that move may not fall in our lap... might have to take a couple risky swings. IF DL doesn't have the juice to land the free agent we best hit on a pick or make a phenomenal trade.

I think it’s more about calculating out when it’s time to be aggressive and when to be conservative. We’ve been out of the “play it safe” mode ever since we discovered Donovan’s potential. We’re still in that window, but at the end of it. All of his other moves lead up to being able to propel us into the next sphere, and doing so requires a risk (or in some cases some very mild risks like some of the available moves we could have made in the past year). Unless we draft the next Donovan, it’s not coming through the draft. To bank on drafting the next Donovan or Rudy is risky. Very risky. And incredibly unrealistic. If we’re lucky, and we can really hit on one, we may be able to draft someone on the caliber of a Niko, which raises some interesting questions.

 

[LoPo]

When risky things break the wrong way you can't deny the risk taken by saying it was stupid or foolish.

I'm fairly sure Millsap Carroll were under KOC's reign primarily. That is a tired argument anyway because we turned the space into 2 firsts... If we could have gotten a first to move them pre-deadline we prolly would have done it.

DL has been fairly risk averse... not straight scared. He's missed some opportunities to "be aggressive". Trading the 14th pick for Hill was aggressive and paid off... injuries obviously limited it's effectiveness.

He's probably on the conservative end of the spectrum... not always bad. Billy Knight was pretty aggressive/risk tolerant... Isiaih Thomas was too. There are some good risk takers too, Masai comes to mind. We are now one really good move away from being a conference finals type team... that move may not fall in our lap... might have to take a couple risky swings. IF DL doesn't have the juice to land the free agent we best hit on a pick or make a phenomenal trade.

So I will give you the Hill trade and Rubio trade as "risky" moves. 6 years and the only risks we have taken were for 2 average NBA PGs?

If you dissected every winning franchise, almost all of the good ones have taken a big swing via trade or risky type contract (Houston with CP, GS with Iggy, SA with Aldridge/DeRozan, Philly, Boston, Bucks, Lakers, etc.). DL hasn't yet. Everything is safe, and that's even the "risky" moves he has made.


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[Keefe]

OKC and Denver have clearly made leaps to me this season. Add in the Dubs and a Portland team who’s one move away from being legit, and that’s a lot to overcome.

I’m not confident we’ll even get out of the first round this year. Which makes me even less confident that we’ll hook any legit free agent.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think it’s more about calculating out when it’s time to be aggressive and when to be conservative. We’ve been out of the “play it safe” mode ever since we discovered Donovan’s potential. We’re still in that window, but at the end of it. All of his other moves lead up to being able to propel us into the next sphere, and doing so requires a risk (or in some cases some very mild risks like some of the available moves we could have made in the past year). Unless we draft the next Donovan, it’s not coming through the draft. To bank on drafting the next Donovan or Rudy is risky. Very risky. And incredibly unrealistic. If we’re lucky, and we can really hit on one, we may be able to draft someone on the caliber of a Niko, which raises some interesting questions.

I understood why we didn't get Niko last trade deadline... It just made sense at the time. Running it back this offseason made sense too, but I wanted us to use our MLE to bring in talent and think we could have done so.

Definitely agree it is time to be aggressive. Curious to see what actually happens... if we run it back I'll be really unhappy.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

So I will give you the Hill trade and Rubio trade as "risky" moves. 6 years and the only risks we have taken were for 2 average NBA PGs?

If you dissected every winning franchise, almost all of the good ones have taken a big swing via trade or risky type contract (Houston with CP, GS with Iggy, SA with Aldridge/DeRozan, Philly, Boston, Bucks, Lakers, etc.). DL hasn't yet. Everything is safe, and that's even the "risky" moves he has made.


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Not sure all those moves are risky, but understand your point here. We are at that point where you push something to the middle of the table and say "alright we going for it". Signs are there that we are ready to do it with the Conley move... would have been risky and had a potentially good payoff. We just dealt with an irrational franchise.

I also don't believe that Dante was the sticking point... like if they came back and said "we can do it but we have to have Dante"... do we say absolutely not. I think they got to the deadline and said we aren't trading him... don't think they made a strong counter. I know DL loves Dante, but if they like Conley enough to push the reported chips we had in... then I will assume Dante wasn't too big of an ask.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

OKC and Denver have clearly made leaps to me this season. Add in the Dubs and a Portland team who’s one move away from being legit, and that’s a lot to overcome.

I’m not confident we’ll even get out of the first round this year. Which makes me even less confident that we’ll hook any legit free agent.

Denver is scary and has a lot of young dudes that can still develop a lot. OKC doesn't scare me... capped out... easy schedule... think they owe a couple picks to other teams still. We may become Portland... probably a better version of them, but two great players with some good players and never able to add the final piece.

 

[Keefe]

Denver is scary and has a lot of young dudes that can still develop a lot. OKC doesn't scare me... capped out... easy schedule... think they owe a couple picks to other teams still. We may become Portland... probably a better version of them, but two great players with some good players and never able to add the final piece.

OKC is waaaay better than last year. Grant is a huge upgrade to Anthony and they now have Shröeder and Morris and a way better bench.