The Battle Begins

[One Brow]

No, I don't want socialized medicine because of the tragedy of the commons.

Is that a problem in most other countries with socialized medicine? Any?

 

[moevillini]

You're a rhetoric pumping machine, KOC. Trust me on this: you don't understand the first thing about politics and the foundations of positions. Quit the partisan ******** and learn a thing or two. It's ok to think about things more and hate the big, bad other side less. You've been warned enough already. Yes, I am the keymaster and gatekeeper....

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to franklin again.

well, props for the ghostbusters reference

 

[Chad Feldheimer]

The world is ready for Newt! At least all of us with widescreen TVs who can accommodate his huge head.

 

[franklin]

Do you have statistics to back that up one way or the other (kids injured by neglect from parents addicted to opiates versus those injured from being stuck in cars)? Or, just blather?

Please keep arguing the case for legalizing heroin.

Make it. Compare the societal effects of legal heroin and legal prostitution to legal alcohol, and show why they are worse. I don't think that case is easy to make, at all.

Which disease does alcohol spread?

I'm going with common sense on the first. For prostitution to not hurt society it requires more of your favorite: control. Controlling it isn't liberating anyone or anything. It's shifting the power from the judiciary to the treasury. I'll refer you to Indonesia's AIDS pandemic to avoid another "blather" comment. Control got AIDS under control.

 

[franklin]

How is allowing people to get married "meddling in it"? Is allowing heterosexuals to marry "meddling in it"?

Yes. I don't distinguish based on sex. Nobody should need government approval for marriage. Like I said, I didn't want their approval (I'm hetero, if that's not clear),.

Why do you feel the government must allow any two consenting adults to marry? It's nothing more than control. I stand for human rights of all, not controlled fairness under the guise of human rights.

 

[PearlWatson]

Is that a problem in most other countries with socialized medicine? Any?

Yes, in Canada for instance they have to wait for long periods to be assigned a doctor(limited resource is depleted), and have long waits for "specialty" procedures (it ain't beneficial for a doctor to specialize). In England they have problems with keeping their hospitals sanitized. People are afraid to go because they will come out with something worse than what they went in with. Those are just a few of the problems.

 

[One Brow]

Please keep arguing the case for legalizing heroin.

In order to keep arguing it, I would need to start arguing it. You claimed you had an easy case to make, so make it.

Which disease does alcohol spread?

Are we discussing diseases from the product, or diseases from people who share the same product delivery vehicle? Because neither alconhol nor heroin inherently spread diseases. Sharing bottles and sharing needles spread diseases.

I'm going with common sense on the first.

So, you can't make a case after all. No surprise. Just rhetoric.

 

[One Brow]

Yes, in Canada for instance they have to wait for long periods to be assigned a doctor(limited resource is depleted), and have long waits for "specialty" procedures (it ain't beneficial for a doctor to specialize). In England they have problems with keeping their hospitals sanitized. People are afraid to go because they will come out with something worse than what they went in with. Those are just a few of the problems.

Which of those come from the tragedy of the commons, as opposed to employee resource issues? How did you make that determination?

 

[franklin]

In order to keep arguing it, I would need to start arguing it. You claimed you had an easy case to make, so make it...

So, you can't make a case after all. No surprise. Just rhetoric.

The sky is blue.

Are you being disingenuous?

 

[PearlWatson]

Which of those come from the tragedy of the commons, as opposed to employee resource issues? How did you make that determination?

I view "the employees" as the commons.

 

[Mission Accomplished]

First here is you buddy Alan Greenspan testifying that his ideology is and was flawed



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5lZPWNFizQ&feature=related

 

[One Brow]

The sky is blue.

Are you being disingenuous?

Not at all. Merely skeptical.

 

[Mission Accomplished]

I view "the employees" as the commons.

Are you saying we have a current shortage of Doctors? Because essentially everyone should be able to visit the doctors. And with the new Health Care Bill reducing the amount that someone can sue for malpractice which will reduce the amount of malpractice insurance that doctors have to have to cover themselves. Allowing more doctors to do what they love and that is treat the sick regardless of their social status.

 

[One Brow]

I view "the employees" as the commons.

Employees are not a limited resource. The tragedy of the commons does not apply.

Now, there may be a valid point that a single-payer system is often accompanied by insufficient pay to providers, resulting in provider shortages. However, that is a more specific system than socialized medicine represents generally, and is not a scenario that is reflected by the term "tragedy of the commons".

 

[PearlWatson]

Christie, the blunt talking bane of public employees, has been the top choice of GOP voters in each of four polls we have done since November of last year. He continues to say he won’t run in 2012, but we continue to include him in our poll because he keeps coming in first. That’s an obvious sign Republican voters are not enthusiastic about their other choices.

https://blogs.forbes.com/johnzogby/2011/05/12/cain-fills-void-in-gop-field/

 

[PearlWatson]

with the new Health Care Bill reducing the amount that someone can sue for malpractice which will reduce the amount of malpractice insurance that doctors have to have to cover themselves.

Link?

 

[PearlWatson]

Employees are not a limited resource. The tragedy of the commons does not apply.

Now, there may be a valid point that a single-payer system is often accompanied by insufficient pay to providers, resulting in provider shortages. However, that is a more specific system than socialized medicine represents generally, and is not a scenario that is reflected by the term "tragedy of the commons".

I'm applying tragedy of the commons to socialized medicine because doctors (employees) become a limited resource, as you just pointed out.

 

[One Brow]

I'm applying tragedy of the commons to socialized medicine because doctors (employees) become a limited resource, as you just pointed out.

Except, doctors are not a limited resource. They can be hired. They can be trained. If you offer doctors more pay, or make it less expensive to go to medical school, you will get more doctors.

 

[PearlWatson]

Except, doctors are not a limited resource. They can be hired. They can be trained. If you offer doctors more pay, or make it less expensive to go to medical school, you will get more doctors.

Even if you do that they are still a limited resource for the demand of socialized medicine.

 

[Mission Accomplished]

Link?

It is not in the actual bill but here is the link to what Obama is trying to push to reduce debt.

[video]https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2011/02/18/186902.htm