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The Biden Administration and All Things Politics

Some data you should probably be aware of is the current demographic breakdown of who has been vaccinated.
Does the data you offer in any way contradict, or shed light upon, the data when looked at by county? If not, why do you think this is relevant to Red's point?

That breakdown does not correlate to the demographic political breakdown in America
Very few categorizations of non-political items into four groups would correlate to the "demographic political background".
 
Very few categorizations of non-political items into four groups would correlate to the "demographic political background".
True, and in those cases I don't understand the leap to blame political affiliation when the two datasets clearly don't correlate. There is some overlap and there exist vast amounts of anecdotal examples that can be cited but with the demographic breakdown clearly not matching I feel we can do better in finding the motivations. I don't believe everything is always politics and always right-wingers=evil. This is one of those cases.
 
True, and in those cases I don't understand the leap to blame political affiliation when the two datasets clearly don't correlate. There is some overlap and there exist vast amounts of anecdotal examples that can be cited but with the demographic breakdown clearly not matching I feel we can do better in finding the motivations. I don't believe everything is always politics and always right-wingers=evil. This is one of those cases.
There are other demographic factors beside race. For example, the place a person lives is considered a demographic factor. We've got a pretty strong R value in the graph that The Thriller shared. Saying we have a weak correlation in a completely unrelated grouping of four categories does not diminish the correlation that does exist.

Now, if you want to make an argument for the correlation under discussion not showing a causitive relationship, one can possibly be made. That would require real work by someone doing the dirty work (comparing, for example, vaccination rates of redder urban, suburban, and rural vs. bluer urban, suburban, and rural, using perhaps official designations or careful definitions to distinguish them). Bringing in some irrelevant, insensitive, marginally related differentiations doesn't dispute the basis of the argument at all. It's mindless distraction, nothing more.
 
Some data you should probably be aware of is the current demographic breakdown of who has been vaccinated.

Asian Americans: 62% vaccinated
White Americans: 47% vaccinated
Hispanic Americans: 39% vaccinated
Black Americans: 34% vaccinated

That breakdown does not correlate to the demographic political breakdown in America and a number of the CCDH dirty dozen listed in the report you linked are not right wing people. I'm not saying right wing outlets aren't broadcasting anti-vax insanity that is doing real damage. There this a hole and we all see it but the square peg you keep trying to jam into it doesn't quite fit.
Whatever….square pegs, round holes, whatever. You wield your hammer as you please, I’ll wield mine as I please. If it displeases you, tough. Vaccination is lagging more in red states than blue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-claim-about-vaccines-suggests-trouble-ahead/

It was only a matter of time until Donald Trump converted the debate over covid-19 vaccines into an occasion for his supporters to show their loyalty to him — and even worse, to the “big lie” that his 2020 loss was illegitimate.

“People are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don’t trust his Administration,” the former president said in a statement Sunday, referring to President Biden. “They don’t trust the Election results, and they certainly don’t trust the Fake News.”

There you have it: Trump is telling his supporters that they are correct not to trust the federal government on vaccines, because this sentiment should flow naturally from their suspicion that the election was stolen from him. Expressing the former has been magically transformed into a way to show fealty to the latter.

This suggests the anti-vaccine mania on the right may only get worse, at exactly the moment that we need it to get better. This vile new Trump claim hints at how this is likely to happen, with the complicity of even relatively responsible Republicans.

We’re seeing a new surge in coronavirus cases due to the delta variant and the lag in vaccinations, with new cases overwhelmingly concentrated among the unvaccinated. Both trends — surging cases and lagging vaccinations — are unfolding primarily in red states.

It’s bad enough that Trump has now recast the question of whether to trust the federal government on vaccines as a proxy for whether the election was stolen from him. What makes this worse is that other Republicans are playing a version of this game.

Consider Sen. Bill Cassidy’s appearance on “Fox News Sunday.” Asked about his state’s woeful vaccination rate, the Louisiana Republican declared that Americans “don’t trust government” on vaccines because of the “partisan comments coming out of the White House regarding the next Jim Crow laws.”

He’s depicting himself as an uber partisan,” Cassidy continued of Biden, as if this is supposed to explain red-state distrust of the administration on vaccines.

This has attracted plenty of ridicule, but the truly pernicious nature of it has gone under-appreciated. Cassidy, to be clear, is urging people to get vaccinated, which is good. But he is not telling red-state Americans that they should trust the federal government when it comes to vaccines, i.e., that they have eminently reasonable grounds to trust it.

Instead, Cassidy recasts this distrust of the feds on the vaccine as a way to register anger at Democrats for calling out GOP efforts to restrict voting that are targeted at African Americans. That’s a version of Trump’s game, minus the explicit endorsement of the “big lie.”

There is also a vaguely extortive quality to this: If you want us to help you vaccinate our own populations, you’d better stop calling out our voter suppression efforts for what they are.

Republican and right-wing efforts to encourage vaccine “skepticism” among GOP voters are unfolding on a spectrum. At the extreme end, GOP members of Congress rail at “needle Nazis” and suggest federal vaccine outreach is a slippery slope to confiscation of guns and Bibles.

Meanwhile, as Eric Boehlert notes, Fox News is spreading so much vaccine disinformation that it’s hard to see this as anything but deliberate sabotage of our covid response. And Matt Gertz details a whole constellation of other right-wing media outlets doing the same.

Yet top Republicans are doing little to discourage all this. As the New York Times puts it, these efforts have “elevated falsehoods and doubts about vaccinations” with “very little resistance from party leaders.”
As my Post colleague James Downie puts it, this passivity from GOP leaders leads inevitably to the conclusion that at best, “they see this toll as acceptable.”

It’s in this context that we should understand the ugly new line from Trump and Cassidy. Cassidy is saying, in effect: Trusting the feds on vaccines is tantamount to endorsing Democrats’ claims that GOP voting restrictions are racist.

Trump is making this worse: Trusting the feds on vaccines is tantamount to endorsing the idea that I legitimately lost the election. How long until aspiring GOP primary candidates start running with their own versions of this nonsense?……
 
This should have Trump supporters, everywhere, lining up for their vaccines…


Trump issued this written statement yesterday:

"Joe Biden kept talking about how good of a job he's doing on the distribution of the Vaccine that was developed by Operation Warp Speed or, quite simply, the Trump Administration. He's not doing well at all. He's way behind schedule, and people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth."

The shift in posture is unmistakable: In March, the former president encouraged people -- most notably his own conservative followers -- to do the right thing, roll up their sleeves, and get vaccinated. In July, Trump's new message implicitly suggests that only those who believe President Biden, election results, and independent news organizations are getting the shots.

As infection numbers inch higher, this is plainly dangerous. The more vaccinations are politicized, the more it undermines public health.

Also note the degree to which Trump is blaming Biden for far-right vaccine opponents' refusals. The rhetoric introduces the possibility of a twisted incentive: Those who want to keep the Democratic White House "behind schedule" suddenly have another reason to avoid vaccinations.
 
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Whatever….square pegs, round holes, whatever. You wield your hammer as you please, I’ll wield mine as I please. If it displeases you, tough. Vaccination is lagging more in red states than blue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-claim-about-vaccines-suggests-trouble-ahead/

It was only a matter of time until Donald Trump converted the debate over covid-19 vaccines into an occasion for his supporters to show their loyalty to him — and even worse, to the “big lie” that his 2020 loss was illegitimate.

“People are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don’t trust his Administration,” the former president said in a statement Sunday, referring to President Biden. “They don’t trust the Election results, and they certainly don’t trust the Fake News.”

There you have it: Trump is telling his supporters that they are correct not to trust the federal government on vaccines, because this sentiment should flow naturally from their suspicion that the election was stolen from him. Expressing the former has been magically transformed into a way to show fealty to the latter.

This suggests the anti-vaccine mania on the right may only get worse, at exactly the moment that we need it to get better. This vile new Trump claim hints at how this is likely to happen, with the complicity of even relatively responsible Republicans.

We’re seeing a new surge in coronavirus cases due to the delta variant and the lag in vaccinations, with new cases overwhelmingly concentrated among the unvaccinated. Both trends — surging cases and lagging vaccinations — are unfolding primarily in red states.

It’s bad enough that Trump has now recast the question of whether to trust the federal government on vaccines as a proxy for whether the election was stolen from him. What makes this worse is that other Republicans are playing a version of this game.

Consider Sen. Bill Cassidy’s appearance on “Fox News Sunday.” Asked about his state’s woeful vaccination rate, the Louisiana Republican declared that Americans “don’t trust government” on vaccines because of the “partisan comments coming out of the White House regarding the next Jim Crow laws.”

He’s depicting himself as an uber partisan,” Cassidy continued of Biden, as if this is supposed to explain red-state distrust of the administration on vaccines.

This has attracted plenty of ridicule, but the truly pernicious nature of it has gone under-appreciated. Cassidy, to be clear, is urging people to get vaccinated, which is good. But he is not telling red-state Americans that they should trust the federal government when it comes to vaccines, i.e., that they have eminently reasonable grounds to trust it.

Instead, Cassidy recasts this distrust of the feds on the vaccine as a way to register anger at Democrats for calling out GOP efforts to restrict voting that are targeted at African Americans. That’s a version of Trump’s game, minus the explicit endorsement of the “big lie.”

There is also a vaguely extortive quality to this: If you want us to help you vaccinate our own populations, you’d better stop calling out our voter suppression efforts for what they are.

Republican and right-wing efforts to encourage vaccine “skepticism” among GOP voters are unfolding on a spectrum. At the extreme end, GOP members of Congress rail at “needle Nazis” and suggest federal vaccine outreach is a slippery slope to confiscation of guns and Bibles.

Meanwhile, as Eric Boehlert notes, Fox News is spreading so much vaccine disinformation that it’s hard to see this as anything but deliberate sabotage of our covid response. And Matt Gertz details a whole constellation of other right-wing media outlets doing the same.

Yet top Republicans are doing little to discourage all this. As the New York Times puts it, these efforts have “elevated falsehoods and doubts about vaccinations” with “very little resistance from party leaders.”
As my Post colleague James Downie puts it, this passivity from GOP leaders leads inevitably to the conclusion that at best, “they see this toll as acceptable.”

It’s in this context that we should understand the ugly new line from Trump and Cassidy. Cassidy is saying, in effect: Trusting the feds on vaccines is tantamount to endorsing Democrats’ claims that GOP voting restrictions are racist.

Trump is making this worse: Trusting the feds on vaccines is tantamount to endorsing the idea that I legitimately lost the election. How long until aspiring GOP primary candidates start running with their own versions of this nonsense?……

What strikes me as odd is that in the run-up to the election, Trump was pushing the vaccine rapid development and plan for wide-scale deployment as a reason to vote for him again - only I could produce such a wonderful cure in such a short time and all that.

That same vaccine that is now so bad.

Again, if the election was rigged, they did a horrible job defending the house and barely crafting out a senate split.
 
This should have Trump supporters, everywhere, lining up for their vaccines…


Trump issued this written statement yesterday:



The shift in posture is unmistakable: In March, the former president encouraged people -- most notably his own conservative followers -- to do the right thing, roll up their sleeves, and get vaccinated. In July, Trump's new message implicitly suggests that only those who believe President Biden, election results, and independent news organizations are getting the shots.

As infection numbers inch higher, this is plainly dangerous. The more vaccinations are politicized, the more it undermines public health.

Also note the degree to which Trump is blaming Biden for far-right vaccine opponents' refusals. The rhetoric introduces the possibility of a twisted incentive: Those who want to keep the Democratic White House "behind schedule" suddenly have another reason to avoid vaccinations.
On vaccinations, Trump WANTS Biden to fail. This is also the same as saying he wants the virus to spread further, he wants more Americans to be sick with Covid, and he is absolutely fine with more Americans dying, if that hurts Biden. Seems pretty obvious to me, but then maybe I’m trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.
 
On vaccinations, Trump WANTS Biden to fail. This is also the same as saying he wants the virus to spread further, he wants more Americans to be sick with Covid, and he is absolutely fine with more Americans dying, if that hurts Biden. Seems pretty obvious to me, but then maybe I’m trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

Pretty hard to argue, but some will try.
 
What strikes me as odd is that in the run-up to the election, Trump was pushing the vaccine rapid development and plan for wide-scale deployment as a reason to vote for him again - only I could produce such a wonderful cure in such a short time and all that.

That same vaccine that is now so bad.

Again, if the election was rigged, they did a horrible job defending the house and barely crafting out a senate split.
He’s not a man of principle. Beats me how so many find it appropriate.
 
Whatever….square pegs, round holes, whatever. You wield your hammer as you please, I’ll wield mine as I please. If it displeases you, tough. Vaccination is lagging more in red states than blue.
Do you think that makes Republicans and Black Americans bad people? Do you think Conservatives and People of Color should be broadly condemned as groups because their vaccination rates aren't higher?
 
Do you think that makes Republicans and Black Americans bad people? Do you think Conservatives and People of Color should be broadly condemned as groups because their vaccination rates aren't higher?
Sure, with an understanding of the context behind the reluctance, and understanding the difficulties some people face with access.
 
Sure, with an understanding of the context behind the reluctance, and understanding the difficulties some people face with access.
No one has any difficulties with access. In the United States, vaccine is everywhere and it is free. Some will even pay people with prizes to get the vaccine.

The context behind the reluctance is exactly what I was referring to with the 'shape of the peg' posts. Ethnically Black individuals are people. Politically Conservative individuals are people. We're all just people with individual motivations. I don't agree with packing people into groups, citing some collective statistics of the group, and using that to disparage groups members or express the superiority of the individuals in your group over the individuals in the other group. That is not a concept I support.
 
No one has any difficulties with access. In the United States, vaccine is everywhere and it is free. Some will even pay people with prizes to get the vaccine.
Sometimes you only need to ride a bus (and pay bus fare) for a few hours, besides the two jobs you have to show up for the kids you needs to raise. Have you ever been really poor?

The context behind the reluctance is exactly what I was referring to with the 'shape of the peg' posts. Ethnically Black individuals are people. Politically Conservative individuals are people. We're all just people with individual motivations. I don't agree with packing people into groups, citing some collective statistics of the group, and using that to disparage groups members or express the superiority of the individuals in your group over the individuals in the other group. That is not a concept I support.
Your support of this concept, or not, does nothing, zero, nada to address reluctance based on historical and current differential treatment, especially when it's being exacerbated by various grifters.
 
Sometimes you only need to ride a bus (and pay bus fare) for a few hours, besides the two jobs you have to show up for the kids you needs to raise.
Where in 2021 would that description be real? Is there anyplace served by UTA that is a few hours away from the nearest vaccination site? In all seriousness your description sounds like your only source of information is from stereotypes and are recycling something you heard in connection to welfare said back in the 1980's. No, this construction of your imagination does not explain why 66% of Black Americans are unvaccinated against SARS-CoV-2.


Your support of this concept, or not, does nothing, zero, nada to address reluctance based on historical and current differential treatment, especially when it's being exacerbated by various grifters.
The exact same system of logic using a group statistic (such as crime rates or vaccination rates) to tar all members of a group is the same system of logic used by racial supremacists. I am not accusing you or Red of being that. What I think, and this may or may not apply, is that some develop allegiances to their political team and come at quotes/articles/data from the direction of scoring points for their team. Coming from that viewpoint can shorten the depth of thought put into issues and lead to support that would be different than if those same people had come to the same issue head-on and with no politics biasing how it was looked at. I could be wrong. I often am. I think this is one of those times. I do not support using group statistics to disparage all individuals belonging to a group. I find it cringe. If we disagree on that then it is what it is.
 
Politicians being about doing what's best for the people went by the wayside 40 years ago. Politicians today are about 1 thing and 1 thing only: winning the next election. They kick every can down the road they can unless they feel it will directly affect their ability to get re-elected.
Is this the fault of politicians and political parties or the fault of the American citizen?

How many Americans whine about how we don’t manufacture anything while carrying the latest Chinese made plasma tv from Walmart cuz they got a “screamin deal?”

How many Americans whine about their salaries while refusing to join a union or supporting raises to min wage?

How many Americans whine about the economy while voting for the politician “you can have a beer with” who campaigns on culture war issues?

How many Americans whine about the state of their roads, schools, etc while enthusiastically supporting tax cuts?

How many Americans whine about immigrants while enjoying fruit picked by immigrants, going on vacation to hotels cleaned by immigrants, and using medicine and technology created by immigrants?

How many Americans whine about distrusting medicine or vaccines while relying on medical information NOT from doctors but from Facebook and Fox News?

How many Americans whine about “fake news” but were too cheap to support their local newspaper and today merely get their news from free sites? You get the type of journalism you pay for…

How many Americans whine about government while never voting or knowing who their reps and governors even are?

In my opinion, politicians, political parties, and media outlets are giving the intellectually lazy, pampered, spoiled, and narcissistic American what they want. Americans in general want all the benefits of modern day society but without any of the thinking, sacrifice, or patience required. They want immediate and simple solutions to complex problems. Politicians know that they merely have survive to the next election because the electorate is too lazy and stupid.

While this affects all Americans and politician parties, it’s most obvious on the right. Look no further than today’s GOP. It doesn’t matter what your ideas or policies are. It doesn’t matter about your decades of service. Look at what’s happened to Romney and Cheney.

All that matters is loyalty to Trump. No thinking necessary. Just loyalty.

Do the media, politicians, etc share in the blame? Sure. But they’re not the primary instigators here. The instigators here are those Americans belonging to the GOP who demand nothing but blind worship in Orange god king. These aren’t serious people. They’re not responsible citizens. They’re petulant children spoiled by decades of peace and propensity in American democracy and cheap consumer goods.
 
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Where in 2021 would that description be real?
It was real enough in 1995. What's changed since then?

Is there anyplace served by UTA that is a few hours away from the nearest vaccination site?
If you don't have a car? Many places. How often have you tried to run errands to three different places using public transportation?

In all seriousness your description sounds like your only source of information is from stereotypes
I'm describing my own lived experience, actually.

No, this construction of your imagination does not explain why 66% of Black Americans are unvaccinated against SARS-CoV-2.
Nor do your denials and ignorance of what people actually go through offer a rebuttals to the lives of actual people.

The exact same system of logic using a group statistic (such as crime rates or vaccination rates) to tar all members of a group ...
1) No one has been tarring anyone.
2) Ignoring of history, culture, experiences, and circumstances while prattling off naive and misguided generalities won't solve problems that actually exist.
 
@Red did you see this? Interesting thread as there is one consistency throughout all age groups:


Canada’s youth isn’t having a problem getting vaccinated:


Do you listen to this podcast? Frum points out that Canada has social media, conservative political parties, and conservative media, yet they don’t have the issues with vaccines as we do.



At some point American citizens have to take responsibility for the state of their country. Can’t keep blaming the media and politicians forever.
 
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how many Americans don’t give a **** about these issues until it really hits home? This is why Americans need to turn off the teevee, read a damn book, and try and see things from other people’s perspectives. Whether it be police brutality, gun violence, racism, LGBT issues, sexism, or racism, too many people in our society just don’t care until it’s too late…



Again, this isn’t the result of political parties or media. Sure, they contribute to it. But American citizens are to blame. Too disengaged, too lazy, too selfish, too narcissistic. Time to change!
 
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Let's count the number of SAR-CoV-2 vaccination sites in 1995. There was.......uh......NONE.
Because, getting round a city on a bus suddenly got easier in 2021? Do you really believe that, or did you just miss the point entirely?

I don't want general statements from your imagination. Give me an address served by UTA and lets see if there is a vaccination site closer than a few hours away.
Someone who lives on Center St. in Alton, Utah and doesn't have a car or a ride.
 
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