The Biden Administration and All Things Politics

[Al-O-Meter]

None of those 3 are in this for a conversation.

If I am being included in the '3', then I absolutely am here for the conversation. As I read down this thread, and most threads, it is personal attack, personal attack, posters are trolls, posters are STUPID, posters are uncreative, posters are impotent, posters are using sock-puppet accounts, personal attack, personal attack, personal attack. The only contributor I see trying to stay mostly above it is Gameface. This board has chased off nearly every politically conservative contributor with the exception of those willing to play by the rules the majority here has demonstrated they wanted to play by. The past 20 comments in this thread are peak lack of self-awareness.

As for how we got here, I'm very aware. My personal journey all started with Gandalfe, but I know that I"m the a##h*ole in that. Contrary to popular belief, it wasn't because I attacked him but because when he came out to this board that his kid was nonbinary, I made an offer that if he needed to take frustrations out that he could take them out on me because I had thick skin and could take it. I didn't live up to that offer. Several months later he banged out some personal attack on a topic that had nothing to do with anything, and it just happened that he caught me on a bad day. I did not shrug it off and I did not hold back. Almost immediately came the chorus of "Thriller was right, he is a troll". I was here for the conversation and still am, but in the torrent of comments very much like the past 20 comments here in this thread, I grew much less likely to shrug off everyone's personal attacks. This board is the way it is because this is the board you want.

As for you LogGrad98, if someone wanted to troll you it wouldn't be any of the nonsense you said was coming, oh noes. It wold be to tell you to get a job, to tell you that you knew this was coming even when the labor market was hot. Your lack of action stemming from laziness let your family down and is still letting your family down. I am not a troll and I don't believe that. I know the realities of the labor market for men no longer in their 30's. We've never met and never will but I do see you, and I see everyone contributing here. I find it totally bizarre that everyone here is so blind even to yourselves.

 

[LogGrad98]

If I am being included in the '3', then I absolutely am here for the conversation. As I read down this thread, and most threads, it is personal attack, personal attack, posters are trolls, posters are STUPID, posters are uncreative, posters are impotent, posters are using sock-puppet accounts, personal attack, personal attack, personal attack. The only contributor I see trying to stay mostly above it is Gameface. This board has chased off nearly every politically conservative contributor with the exception of those willing to play by the rules the majority here has demonstrated they wanted to play by. The past 20 comments in this thread are peak lack of self-awareness.

As for how we got here, I'm very aware. My personal journey all started with Gandalfe, but I know that I"m the a##h*ole in that. Contrary to popular belief, it wasn't because I attacked him but because when he came out to this board that his kid was nonbinary, I made an offer that if he needed to take frustrations out that he could take them out on me because I had thick skin and could take it. I didn't live up to that offer. Several months later he banged out some personal attack on a topic that had nothing to do with anything, and it just happened that he caught me on a bad day. I did not shrug it off and I did not hold back. Almost immediately came the chorus of "Thriller was right, he is a troll". I was here for the conversation and still am, but in the torrent of comments very much like the past 20 comments here in this thread, I grew much less likely to shrug off everyone's personal attacks. This board is the way it is because this is the board you want.

As for you LogGrad98, if someone wanted to troll you it wouldn't be any of the nonsense you said was coming, oh noes. It wold be to tell you to get a job, to tell you that you knew this was coming even when the labor market was hot. Your lack of action stemming from laziness let your family down and is still letting your family down. I am not a troll and I don't believe that. I know the realities of the labor market for men no longer in their 30's. We've never met and never will but I do see you, and I see everyone contributing here. I find it totally bizarre that everyone here is so blind even to yourselves.

No if you were you would recognize the difference between valid argument and hateful rhetoric said just for causing pain. You'd also occasionally be intellectually honest. You're here to troll, it's very clear. No one makes the insinuations you have sincerely. You are just less directly inflammatory than the others. But you're trolling nonetheless.

Unless you are telling me sincerely that 1) you legitimately believe any of those you mentioned support child sex trafficking in any way and 2) you legitimately believe they have molested or allowed molestation of their children who have come out as non-cis.

And if you really do believe either of those things then you really really are tone deaf and pay no attention and make zero effort to really get to know your fellow posters, which is many ways is worse than trolling.

 

[fishonjazz]

No if you were you would recognize the difference between valid argument and hateful rhetoric said just for causing pain. You'd also occasionally be intellectually honest. You're here to troll, it's very clear. No one makes the insinuations you have sincerely. You are just less directly inflammatory than the others. But you're trolling nonetheless.

Unless you are telling me sincerely that 1) you legitimately believe any of those you mentioned support child sex trafficking in any way and 2) you legitimately believe they have molested or allowed molestation of their children who have come out as non-cis.

And if you really do believe either of those things then you really really are tone deaf and pay no attention and make zero effort to really get to know your fellow posters, which is many ways is worse than trolling.

Great post

 

[One Brow]

As I read down this thread, and most threads, it is personal attack, personal attack, posters are trolls, posters are STUPID, posters are uncreative, posters are impotent, posters are using sock-puppet accounts, personal attack, personal attack, personal attack. The only contributor I see trying to stay mostly above it is Gameface.

I do engage in personal attacks on liberal trolls, so I'm sure that's what you mean from me (maybe it was too meta).

However, this particular diversion stated because you tried to make connection between "taking an issue with" a movie about child sex trafficking and having a non-gender-conforming child, did it on a false basis (not one of us said that we had an issue with the movie), called our child-rearing into account, and did so in the same comment (playing directly into the lie that that pedophilia is somehow connected with LGBTQ+ issues).

I don't start conversations about church leaders being pedophiles and connect that to your religious beliefs. I don't start conversations about coaches who are pedophiles and connect that to you professionally (or as a hobby, I'm not sure in what capacity you coach). I don't start conversations about how the people who scream the most loudly about vices are often the ones the most struggling with or succumbing to those vices in an effort to smear people.

I wish there more conservatives here, and lately if a conservative asks me to not respond, I'll take that very seriously. I acknowledge my failure to do so previously, and that I played a part in making some of them feel unwelcome. However, I do not attack conservatives personally in the way you did. If you don't see how your post was an attack, I don't understand how you can exist in such a state of denial.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Unless you are telling me sincerely that 1) you legitimately believe any of those you mentioned support child sex trafficking in any way and 2) you legitimately believe they have molested or allowed molestation of their children who have come out as non-cis.

Of course I don't believe those things, and I have NEVER said any of those things. All of those claims are projections that those parents here have made to claim victimization. Search my history all you want. You won't find a single instance of me saying any of those things. What I do believe is the stronger component of gender dysphoria is nurture, not nature. I do believe those parents provided that environment when raising their kids and I would classify it as abuse. It is not molesting, not trafficking, and may be as small a thing as neglecting to control what their kids were exposed to but I do think the environment those kids were raised in before they were 10 years old has manifested in young adults that do not have the life skills to form families or even move out of their parents houses. I think those parents are blaming the world and people they see as hateful rather than taking responsibility for the poor job they did as parents.

That Gameface wants all sports receiving any kind of government funding to become participation trophy events also really rubs me wrong. I do think engaging in competitive events in childhood is important, for boys especially. I didn't come by that from nothing. Two of the most influential books I read when my wife was pregnant with our kid were NutureShock and Top Dog: The Science of Winning and Losing, both by Po Bronson and Ashley Merryman. If Gameface chose to go a different direction with raising his own kid, then only his kid has to bare the consequences of coming up in such an environment, but I am not going to be shy in my pushback when he proposes we mandate his ideas on everyone. I think his ideas on how kids should be raised are horrible, and I stand by my opinion that I'd even classify them as abusive, but I have never said Gameface of Gandalfe are child molesters, nor have I attacked either of their kids beyond that they are a product of how they were raised.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

this particular diversion stated because you tried to make connection between "taking an issue with" a movie about child sex trafficking and having a non-gender-conforming child

I labeled it an interesting coincidence. You, Gameface, and Gandalfe do have non-gender-conforming children. You, Gameface, and Gandalfe were the only ones on this board opposing a favorable depiction of the movie when as far as I could tell, not a single one of you had even seen the movie. I never said or even meant to imply that you were pro-trafficking kids or cheered the molesting of kids, but there did seem to be something that resonated with all three of you enough to jump on the favorable depiction of a movie you haven't seen. This movie, and those promoting it, seemed to prompt a defensive response in the three of you. It was a coincidence in the three of you that I found interesting.

 

[Deleted member 365]

At least you're not responding to a troll.

Grow up.

There’s a huge difference between responding twice, realizing that the discussion was going no where fast (because the poster was a troll), ending the engagement and blocking them vs you engaging and engaging trolls everyday in page after page “rebuttals.” Anyone can make a mistake on this website and engage with a troll every now and again. That happens. Sometimes we do unblock posters to see if they’ve changed. But the day after day clutter of arguing with posters whose only desire is to grab negative attention is so tiresome. I know this will fall on deaf ears as you’re not open to critique or change. But just know that several other posters have reached out to me in agreement about the things I’ve DMed you about previously.

So let me be clear, it’s your feeding these trolls that really diminishes this board. If you ignored them they’d either change and post good faith arguments or leave. It’s really obvious and selfish of you to turn every thread into a back and forth between you, Al, and Jazzy. Sadly, I (or those who’ve contacted me recently) don’t expect you to change (despite being respectful and DMing you in the past. This is your schtick. It makes you feel good about yourself, I get it.

 

[LogGrad98]

I do engage in personal attacks on liberal trolls, so I'm sure that's what you mean from me (maybe it was too meta).

However, this particular diversion stated because you tried to make connection between "taking an issue with" a movie about child sex trafficking and having a non-gender-conforming child, did it on a false basis (not one of us said that we had an issue with the movie), called our child-rearing into account, and did so in the same comment (playing directly into the lie that that pedophilia is somehow connected with LGBTQ+ issues).

I don't start conversations about church leaders being pedophiles and connect that to your religious beliefs. I don't start conversations about coaches who are pedophiles and connect that to you professionally (or as a hobby, I'm not sure in what capacity you coach). I don't start conversations about how the people who scream the most loudly about vices are often the ones the most struggling with or succumbing to those vices in an effort to smear people.

I wish there more conservatives here, and lately if a conservative asks me to not respond, I'll take that very seriously. I acknowledge my failure to do so previously, and that I played a part in making some of them feel unwelcome. However, I do not attack conservatives personally in the way you did. If you don't see how your post was an attack, I don't understand how you can exist in such a state of denial.

But see, that's trollery. Or evil. I prefer to assume trollery. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and ****s ducks, it's probably a ****ing duck.

 

[LogGrad98]

Of course I don't believe those things, and I have NEVER said any of those things. All of those claims are projections that those parents here have made to claim victimization. Search my history all you want. You won't find a single instance of me saying any of those things. What I do believe is the stronger component of gender dysphoria is nurture, not nature. I do believe those parents provided that environment when raising their kids and I would classify it as abuse. It is not molesting, not trafficking, and may be as small a thing as neglecting to control what their kids were exposed to but I do think the environment those kids were raised in before they were 10 years old has manifested in young adults that do not have the life skills to form families or even move out of their parents houses. I think those parents are blaming the world and people they see as hateful rather than taking responsibility for the poor job they did as parents.

That Gameface wants all sports receiving any kind of government funding to become participation trophy events also really rubs me wrong. I do think engaging in competitive events in childhood is important, for boys especially. I didn't come by that from nothing. Two of the most influential books I read when my wife was pregnant with our kid were NutureShock and Top Dog: The Science of Winning and Losing, both by Po Bronson and Ashley Merryman. If Gameface chose to go a different direction with raising his own kid, then only his kid has to bare the consequences of coming up in such an environment, but I am not going to be shy in my pushback when he proposes we mandate his ideas on everyone. I think his ideas on how kids should be raised are horrible, and I stand by my opinion that I'd even classify them as abusive, but I have never said Gameface of Gandalfe are child molesters, nor have I attacked either of their kids beyond that they are a product of how they were raised.

More is communicated by implication than direct words. Read your words again carefully. If you can't see the insult then I can't help you, other than to continue pointing out your trollery.

 

[One Brow]

What I do believe is the stronger component of gender dysphoria is nurture, not nature. I do believe those parents provided that environment when raising their kids and I would classify it as abuse.

Be specific. What are the details of "that environment"? What are the abusive elements? Take your swing, as a true believer who doesn't care about the opinion of the medical community. Make sure account for the existence of gender-non-conforming people in every culture and throughout known history.

I doubt you have it in you. I think if you list some details, you'll find out how wrong you are, and you want to avoid that embarrassment.

It is not molesting, not trafficking, and may be as small a thing as neglecting to control what their kids were exposed to but I do think the environment those kids were raised in before they were 10 years old has manifested in young adults that do not have the life skills to form families or even move out of their parents houses.

My kid moved out of the house for college (including renting a furnished apartment from a regular landlord), even though we live across the river from SLU and it hit their pocketbook severely. They're back in the home for graduate school because they won't have time for an outside job and living on a stipend is poverty-level. Whatever required "life skill" you name, they have.

By the way, I have five kids, four are gender-conforming. I raised them all the same way. Also, there are plenty of people just like you, who raise kids in the same manner, that are gender-non-conforming.

I think those parents are blaming the world and people they see as hateful rather than taking responsibility for the poor job they did as parents.

People are hateful to the gender-non-conforming.

I think those parents are blaming the world and people they see as hateful rather than taking responsibility for the poor job they did as parents.

People are hateful to the gender-non-conforming.

I do think engaging in competitive events in childhood is important, for boys especially.

Are you smart enough to understand the difference between "the primary purpose of this school-funded activity is to develop and challenge students physically" and "the primary purpose of this school-funded activity is to see who can jump the highest"? Because the former is used as the justification for funding school sports, the latter is not.

I didn't come by that from nothing. Two of the most influential books I read when my wife was pregnant with our kid were NutureShock and Top Dog: The Science of Winning and Losing, both by Po Bronson and Ashley Merryman.

Two authors who have zero expertise in early childhood development. You read books that you knew were going to feed your biases, got those biases confirmed, and felt educated.

I think his ideas on how kids should be raised are horrible,

What, precisely, are your complaints? Be detailed. I think if you investigate, you'll find we raised our children in largely the same fashion you did.

You, Gameface, and Gandalfe were the only ones on this board opposing a favorable depiction of the movie

This is a lie. I repeatedly said I didn't know anything about the movie, gandalfe said nothing about the movie, and Gameface posted a link that separated the movie from the utterances of its lead actor. Not one of us has objected to people enjoying this movie.

... but there did seem to be something that resonated with all three of you enough to jump on the favorable depiction of a movie you haven't seen.

Aside from the lie I pointed out immediately above, I explained why I wanted to differentiate between reliable sources of real-world child-trafficking and this movie. You responded that I chose "to fight against the stigmatization of child trafficking and pedophilia in this movie" (another lie), without bothering to digest what I said in any fashion.

It was a coincidence in the three of you that I found interesting.

As I explained, this issue has been forced on us as parents of gender-non-conforming children. Anytime you figuratively stroke your beard at the connection between child sex abuse and gender non-conformity, you're contributing to a side of the culture that says gender-non-conforming people need to be eradicated by supporting one of their talking points. It means nothing to you if my child is beaten or killed. It means something to me.

 

[One Brow]

But see, that's trollery. Or evil. I prefer to assume trollery. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and ****s ducks, it's probably a ****ing duck.

I don't assume trollery.

 

[LogGrad98]

I don't assume trollery.

I'm not assuming it either. I'm deducing it from the evidence available. It's empirical at this point.