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There's something I don't understand about full electric cars. It seems the primary spec everyone wants is range. More is always better. Of course to get more range you need more of the heaviest and I'd guess most expensive part of the car, which is the batteries. Obviously with more weight it takes more energy to move, so the range you get per watt or whatever is going to go down as you increase the range.

I'd consider a full electric if I could get a small sporty model that got like 120 miles in range. Small battery, faster to charge, will do way more than I need for my commute, weighs less so is more efficient and faster acceleration. I don't need 350 miles of range for my plug in electric. I'd never use a full electric for a road trip anyway as even the best and biggest range models still have to charge on more than a daily basis and it takes time, more time the more range you have.

Until they have swappable batteries that you can change in minutes (I'm imagining an automated battery swap bay at the "gas" station) I don't consider full electric an option for a road trip. Battery tech is not advancing very quickly at all and we may already be facing the upper limit of what batteries can do just based on physics.

So why is there nothing in the dedicated commuter segment? 120 miles is way more than the vast majority of people drive per day. Heck I could do with 80 miles in range and still not use half of that a day.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I've be driving hybrid almost exclusively for 17 years. 2 priuses in that time and currently driving a PHEV Honda Clarity. Love my Clarity. It's the smoothest ride I've ever had in a sedan and just feels like luxury. Supposedly it was an interior based on the Acura trims on an Accord base with the PHEV powertrain. It has some flaws that limit both functionality and enjoyability but I still love driving it. I can get all the way to work and about half way home on all electric as it has one of the bigger batteries in the PHEV segment. Even being newer to the party. When I can plug in at work, as at my last job, I went hundreds of miles on all electric, once topping 2500 miles without adding any gas. But it has a fairly short range considering longer distance drives. It's definitely aimed at the commute. I think I'll always drive some version of a hybrid, and I've loved the plug in hybrid, so I'll target more of those in the future. Not sure I'll ever embrace full electric, mainly due to the limitations and accessibility of charging and the fact that we often take long distance trips. Definitely have my eye on the Toyota Grand Highlander in PHEV trim, but going to wait for like generation 3.
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Plug in hybrid is the way to go I think. They seem to be a bit more expensive than the regular hybrid

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fishonjazz said:
Plug in hybrid is the way to go I think. They seem to be a bit more expensive than the regular hybrid

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For a commute there is no doubt. Even factoring in cost of electricity I'm saving a ton of money every month on gas. Even though I currently can't plug in at work, I'm still averaging around 80-100 MPG over a month's time.

But one option I'm exploring is getting a fold-up bike to keep in the trunk because about 1.5 miles from my work is a highway patrol station with free charging in their parking lot. It'd take about half a day to completely charge my car up. I would park there and ride my bike to work in the morning then go back in the afternoon and bring the car to my work parking lot, then drive home with a full battery every day.
 
Sardines said:
There's something I don't understand about full electric cars. It seems the primary spec everyone wants is range. More is always better. Of course to get more range you need more of the heaviest and I'd guess most expensive part of the car, which is the batteries. Obviously with more weight it takes more energy to move, so the range you get per watt or whatever is going to go down as you increase the range.

I'd consider a full electric if I could get a small sporty model that got like 120 miles in range. Small battery, faster to charge, will do way more than I need for my commute, weighs less so is more efficient and faster acceleration. I don't need 350 miles of range for my plug in electric. I'd never use a full electric for a road trip anyway as even the best and biggest range models still have to charge on more than a daily basis and it takes time, more time the more range you have.

Until they have swappable batteries that you can change in minutes (I'm imagining an automated battery swap bay at the "gas" station) I don't consider full electric an option for a road trip. Battery tech is not advancing very quickly at all and we may already be facing the upper limit of what batteries can do just based on physics.

So why is there nothing in the dedicated commuter segment? 120 miles is way more than the vast majority of people drive per day. Heck I could do with 80 miles in range and still not use half of that a day.
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Get the ford mustang full electric. It fits the bill as you describe it but in a crossover suv kind of format. Right around 120 mile range. All that. And it looks pretty cool. Fun to drive, or so a guy at work told me. He drives one as his commuter car and loves it. But realistically that's all it is, for the commute. But hey that's what we drive for like 80% of the time, so it could be worth it.


Eh, looks like they upped the range. Still a pretty cool car.

 
LogGrad98 said:
For a commute there is no doubt. Even factoring in cost of electricity I'm saving a ton of money every month on gas. Even though I currently can't plug in at work, I'm still averaging around 80-100 MPG over a month's time.

But one option I'm exploring is getting a fold-up bike to keep in the trunk because about 1.5 miles from my work is a highway patrol station with free charging in their parking lot. It'd take about half a day to completely charge my car up. I would park there and ride my bike to work in the morning then go back in the afternoon and bring the car to my work parking lot, then drive home with a full battery every day.
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I have a nice electric bike that I love and I always think I'm going to ride it to work a ton and then only actually ride it to work like 6 or 7 times per year. Partly due to laziness and also because it's cold at 5am and just less convenient than driving.

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LogGrad98 said:
Get the ford mustang full electric. It fits the bill as you describe it but in a crossover suv kind of format. Right around 120 mile range. All that. And it looks pretty cool. Fun to drive, or so a guy at work told me. He drives one as his commuter car and loves it. But realistically that's all it is, for the commute. But hey that's what we drive for like 80% of the time, so it could be worth it.


Eh, looks like they upped the range. Still a pretty cool car.

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The mini cooper SE has 110 miles of range. I guess that's basically what I was asking for.
 
The rav4 prime is intriguing. It’s a plug in hybrid that gets around 40 miles on a charge. Then it shifts to its hybrid engine. Selection for primes is extremely low in Utah so the cost is high. A year or so ago I asked a guy at Karl Malone Toyota and he said that they flat out don’t get many of those. So when they do, they charge between $5,000-$10,000 over MSRP. I don’t know how anyone can justify paying $45,000+ for a rav4. You’re moving into Lexus and Acura levels of pricing there.
 
The Thriller said:
The rav4 prime is intriguing. It’s a plug in hybrid that gets around 40 miles on a charge. Then it shifts to its hybrid engine. Selection for primes is extremely low in Utah so the cost is high. A year or so ago I asked a guy at Karl Malone Toyota and he said that they flat out don’t get many of those. So when they do, they charge between $5,000-$10,000 over MSRP. I don’t know how anyone can justify paying $45,000+ for a rav4. You’re moving into Lexus and Acura levels of pricing there.
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Yeah price gouging is a real problem. The whole system for selling new cars is completely ****ed up. Another example of rampant lobbying favoring the millionaires.
 
The Thriller said:
The rav4 prime is intriguing. It’s a plug in hybrid that gets around 40 miles on a charge. Then it shifts to its hybrid engine. Selection for primes is extremely low in Utah so the cost is high. A year or so ago I asked a guy at Karl Malone Toyota and he said that they flat out don’t get many of those. So when they do, they charge between $5,000-$10,000 over MSRP. I don’t know how anyone can justify paying $45,000+ for a rav4. You’re moving into Lexus and Acura levels of pricing there.
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Even accord hybrids don't have a ton of inventory. I was quite surprised by this. When I started looking to buy one I expected there to be hundreds of the one I want. Instead there is like 6 of them in the area

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I love the Kia Telluride. Wish I could afford one of them. I think they look fantastic and I read a few reviews on them and they seem amazing in every way.

Pricey though

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The Thriller said:
I find Toyotas to be more comfortable and Hondas to be more fun to drive. I also prefer Toyota’s knobs to Honda’s buttons for climate control. And touch screen people should be launched to the sun in a rocket ship like the movie Super man 4. My wife loves her Accord I Love my Camry. Although her accord is fun to drive. The deciding factor might be the hybrid options that Toyota has that for some odd reason Honda has decided to not really develop. If I can, I’d love to swing for a hybrid in the next few years.
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Yeah, they did a really un-Honda thing with the touchscreen. They're going back though. Toyota have a ton of cool vehicles but Honda have that special sauce. Toyota's hybrid engines in the new Tacoma and SUV's aren't that smooth from what I've read but they do get very good mileage. Honda's engines are smooth but they don't have the mid-displacement turbos we need in the West.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I've be driving hybrid almost exclusively for 17 years. 2 priuses in that time and currently driving a PHEV Honda Clarity. Love my Clarity. It's the smoothest ride I've ever had in a sedan and just feels like luxury. Supposedly it was an interior based on the Acura trims on an Accord base with the PHEV powertrain. It has some flaws that limit both functionality and enjoyability but I still love driving it. I can get all the way to work and about half way home on all electric as it has one of the bigger batteries in the PHEV segment. Even being newer to the party. When I can plug in at work, as at my last job, I went hundreds of miles on all electric, once topping 2500 miles without adding any gas. But it has a fairly short range considering longer distance drives. It's definitely aimed at the commute. I think I'll always drive some version of a hybrid, and I've loved the plug in hybrid, so I'll target more of those in the future. Not sure I'll ever embrace full electric, mainly due to the limitations and accessibility of charging and the fact that we often take long distance trips. Definitely have my eye on the Toyota Grand Highlander in PHEV trim, but going to wait for like generation 3.
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Nice. Plug-in hybrids are where it's at these days.
 
str8line said:

MSN

www.msn.com


The cult is crazy strong. Fox News and The Rapist are doing so much long-term damage to the USA.
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And those viewers be like "don't listen to the mainstream media. It's fake news"

No media is more mainstream than fox.
Or more fake (just check the court cases)
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Not sure if this is the right place to put this, but because of the recent discussion that's exactly what I'm going to do... right now.

 
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Sardines said:
Not sure if this is the right place to put this, but because of the recent discussion that's exactly what I'm going to do... right now.

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That's easy, wipe out the humans. Simultaneously fix traffic, and save the world.
 
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