The elephant in the room (Rudy Gobert)

[zags422]

I think Gobert was given a disservice but the horrendous defensive effort/on ball defense the rest of the team gave night in and out. With that said, a big who can’t even shoot 10 foot jumpers belongs nowhere in top 10 league discussions. At his best, I’d give him to 50, and that might be generous. Not a fan overall

 

[Coach Ellis]

Man, if Gobert losing to the champs was an indication of this, then what do you call Mitchell losing to the Knicks with Randle on one ankle?

Karma

 

[Bawse Dawg]

I actually think his best individual performance was against the nuggets in the bubble when he had multiple 50 point games I think. Of course we lost that series but still. He was amazing

That was the other I considered, but he also blew game one with that 7 second violation. And we lost after being up 3-1. So I put OKC above it, reasonable people can disagree. That OKC series is still the peak of Jazz fandom in the last long while… The future was so bright.

Now it is again..

 

[YoungJefe]

I actually agreed with you a few times. Thinking Rudy was an elite player is like thinking Kirk Cousins is an elite qb. Stats tell one part of the story. But anyone with common sense and eyeballs realizes the obvious flaws in their games. These are easy to expose in the postseason with more time to prepare.

One of the few good men left on this board. If we can get @Hearsky outta here soon this place will be paradise.

 

[Keefe]

One of the few good men left on this board. If we can get @Hearsky outta here soon this place will be paradise.

Not sure about all that but all I’ll add is that I hope we use Gobert as a cautionary tale when analyzing Kessler. I love the kid. He’s a great defender. But he’s going to have to develop offensively imo in order for us to become a great team in the next handful of years.

 

[zags422]

Not sure about all that but all I’ll add is that I hope we use Gobert as a cautionary tale when analyzing Kessler. I love the kid. He’s a great defender. But he’s going to have to develop offensively imo in order for us to become a great team in the next handful of years.

I agree with this as well. What is hilarious to me is Kessler showing up from day 1 and already having a better feel as well as hand eye coordination from day 1 than Gobert ever had. Gobert may have a few things he does better. But the eye test to me shows Kessler with better body control on lobs already and a better feel in general. Kessler taking a few threes, having a jumper and still shooting 72% on the season, which was I think higher than Rudy last season is amazing. To me, Kessler better already. Ceiling is so much higher. If he continues to improve his offense from his ROOKIE season, he’ll be worth every penny

 

[LogGrad98]

What really funny about this discussion is that if we had added a player like Brogdon instead of Conley, and a long athletic 3&D wing instead of, say, favors for the millionth time or drafting the favors clone in Doke where we could have had Bane, we could very well see this team raising the banner right now, and maybe more than 1. We missed out because a double-midget back court that could or would not play perimeter D, combined with thinking a small slower 3&D wing can make up for all that difference, was not enough in the playoffs. Period. If Mitchell had given even a single **** about defense, which he all but admitted he did not play on purpose, or if we had actually addressed that glaring problem that everyone except DL could see in needing length, athleticism, and perimeter defense, this discussion would be about if Mitchell and Gobert are better or more important than Stockton and Malone. Instead it's just a bitter simp craving external validation from strangers on the Internet. Sad really. In every way. Sad we missed on the ultimate success because DL was running the show. And sad for the poor OP who probably just needs a hug.

 

[Keefe]

What really funny about this discussion is that if we had added a player like Brogdon instead of Conley, and a long athletic 3&D wing instead of, say, favors for the millionth time or drafting the favors clone in Doke where we could have had Bane, we could very well see this team raising the banner right now, and maybe more than 1. We missed out because a double-midget back court that could or would not play perimeter D, combined with thinking a small slower 3&D wing can make up for all that difference, was not enough in the playoffs. Period. If Mitchell had given even a single **** about defense, which he all but admitted he did not play on purpose, or if we had actually addressed that glaring problem that everyone except DL could see in needing length, athleticism, and perimeter defense, this discussion would be about if Mitchell and Gobert are better or more important than Stockton and Malone. Instead it's just a bitter simp craving external validation from strangers on the Internet. Sad really. In every way. Sad we missed on the ultimate success because DL was running the show. And sad for the poor OP who probably just needs a hug.

Wishful thinking imo. We still would not have had the chemistry to win it all. Brogdon gets hurt as much if not more than Conley. And Spida was banged up against the Clips two years ago. Or three. Whenever it was.

 

[Keefe]

Don’t worry guys. I just DM’ed Kessler in IG. Gave him a pep talk. LFG.

Wonder if he’ll reply like my boy, Tony Jones.

 

[LogGrad98]

Wishful thinking imo. We still would not have had the chemistry to win it all. Brogdon gets hurt as much if not more than Conley. And Spida was banged up against the Clips two years ago. Or three. Whenever it was.

Yeah but even if we considered the injury thing to be even, Brogdon still had a breakout in his career over the 3 years we had Conley. And he still fit the mold better of what we knew we needed, long and a good defender. And frankly he was just the type of player we needed, but instead we went after short and defensively limited and big lumbering centers and never addressed the real elephant in the room: the dearth of perimeter D. And if we had addressed that realistically we could be looking at being there in the place of Denver this year. We were missing a single guy who could slow down Murray for even a single damn possession to get by them in the bubble. It isn't crazy talk to say that if we had addressed that problem we could have gotten there.

But that's all still the point. It was a failing of the FO that brought us to this conversation in the first place. This might be a very different conversation if they had addressed those issues instead of chasing a "star" in Conley and drafting terribly, e.g. Doke.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

What really funny about this discussion is that if we had added a player like Brogdon instead of Conley, and a long athletic 3&D wing instead of, say, favors for the millionth time or drafting the favors clone in Doke where we could have had Bane, we could very well see this team raising the banner right now, and maybe more than 1. We missed out because a double-midget back court that could or would not play perimeter D, combined with thinking a small slower 3&D wing can make up for all that difference, was not enough in the playoffs. Period. If Mitchell had given even a single **** about defense, which he all but admitted he did not play on purpose, or if we had actually addressed that glaring problem that everyone except DL could see in needing length, athleticism, and perimeter defense, this discussion would be about if Mitchell and Gobert are better or more important than Stockton and Malone. Instead it's just a bitter simp craving external validation from strangers on the Internet. Sad really. In every way. Sad we missed on the ultimate success because DL was running the show. And sad for the poor OP who probably just needs a hug.

Brogdon would have been a great fit with those injury ravaged playoff teams for sure.

Agree with your larger point.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Gobert - Eliminated in the 1st round in spite of having a talented team around him that had previously been eliminated in the first round. He made no difference to the outcome. Hence... He is not a top 10 player by the main metric I care about.

We exited that titanic sumbersible before it imploded. Too soon?

Thanks for trolli... ehem... I mean trying.

 

[416Klawzz]

I agree with this as well. What is hilarious to me is Kessler showing up from day 1 and already having a better feel as well as hand eye coordination from day 1 than Gobert ever had. Gobert may have a few things he does better. But the eye test to me shows Kessler with better body control on lobs already and a better feel in general. Kessler taking a few threes, having a jumper and still shooting 72% on the season, which was I think higher than Rudy last season is amazing. To me, Kessler better already. Ceiling is so much higher. If he continues to improve his offense from his ROOKIE season, he’ll be worth every penny

Kessler > Turdbert

 

[Utesnjazz]

Gobert is 5 years older than Don. A few years ago Gobert was absolutely around a top ten player. Both trades worked great for us, I’m glad Danny pulled them off.

 

[Goodluckchuck]

I will admit I too was higher on Gobert then I should have been. Top 10? No but top 15 I believed he was. Kessler really opened my eyes last year and made me realize what just a little bit of offense would have done for Gobert. If you put DM on this team with him and Lauri I think we would be very dangerous. Thank God we got out of that Gobert contract.

 

[YoungJefe]

Kessler > Turdbert

Where have you been my brother?

 

[LoPo]

Why are you back here? Did the Cavs fans kick you out?

I took a year off for the most part after we traded one of the best and most promising players in our franchise history in Donovan Mitchell.

I knew we would screw up the "tanking" because we aren't a tanking franchise.

Then I see a thread and people are still trying to lift up Rudy's legacy and tear down Don's. This can be one of the dumbest fan bases around. We would be a contender if we had kept Don and traded a Rudy pick for Lauri. It's so obvious.

To normal, rationale fans.

 

[Hearsky]

I took a year off for the most part after we traded one of the best and most promising players in our franchise history in Donovan Mitchell.

I knew we would screw up the "tanking" because we aren't a tanking franchise.

Then I see a thread and people are still trying to lift up Rudy's legacy and tear down Don's. This can be one of the dumbest fan bases around. We would be a contender if we had kept Don and traded a Rudy pick for Lauri. It's so obvious.

To normal, rationale fans.

Just teasing you. No hard feelings.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I don't think Gobert was ever a top-10 player. At a certain point, you gotta be basically good at individual things that directly involve having a basketball in your hands already. I don't believe I have ever made the assertion he was a top-10 player.

He did have top-10 player impact for a span of time. That is certainly not now.

If you're asking me what I think of him and Mitchell, the hindsight is the same: Rudy is sincere but awkward and most people find him grating and Mitchell is a conniving little ****.

What I thought we all cared most about is moving forward from the painful end to that era and welcoming the new one by breaking the trade market when we got rid of them.

 

[FrenchJazzFa]

Rudy has never been a top 10 player. He can't shoot which even if he was huge in defense put him at 20-30.... Don is not a top 10 players, no defense, unable to carry a team. DA make the right choice.