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The End

Sorry to post about the topic... But, I disagree that Greg has not performed well. I don't know this, but suspect that the "talking Jerry out of retiring" discussion included the idea of trading D-will and Jerry still declined. (Earlier in this thread it was 'reported' that D-will was offered earlier in the season...) I think Jerry was tired of it. He is old enough not to want to start over with a new group. (this is a years-long process) He just was simply, ligitmately tired of all this "today's NBA" stuff.

So this brings us to step two of this Jazz transformation. Greg said openly: I don't think Dwill is going to re-sign here. and i think he's added, in private: "And i'm not fond of employees who don't follow the lead of their boss." See ya. Also, I wouldn't even be surprised if Deron asked to be traded.

The value we get back is fair at least and if you measure it compared to "losing D-will for nothing" scenario, then it was a GREAT trade.

Thus Greg Miller did the right thing. (And I can't believe that i'm grateful for Melo for anything, but Thanks Melo for showing us what could have happened to the Jazz)
 
Thus Greg Miller did the right thing. (And I can't believe that i'm grateful for Melo for anything, but Thanks Melo for showing us what could have happened to the Jazz)
Thanks Melo and thanks LeBron. Lebron really showed what happens when a franchise loses a marquee player and gets nothing in return. 'Melo showed what happens when the speculation turns into a circus. 'Melo also set the market price. Personally, I think the Jazz got better value than Denver did. Denver gave up a superstar and former all-star and got back a decent starter in Gallinari and a second-tier PG in Felton. Chandler and Mozgov are nothing special.

Jazz gave up the equivalent of 'Melo and got a pretty good starter in Harris (Harris >>> Felton), a top big man prospect in Favors (will be > Gallinari) and a certain lottery pick, maybe two.
 
rememberkids.jpg
 
Thanks Melo and thanks LeBron. Lebron really showed what happens when a franchise loses a marquee player and gets nothing in return. 'Melo showed what happens when the speculation turns into a circus. 'Melo also set the market price. Personally, I think the Jazz got better value than Denver did. Denver gave up a superstar and former all-star and got back a decent starter in Gallinari and a second-tier PG in Felton. Chandler and Mozgov are nothing special.

Jazz gave up the equivalent of 'Melo and got a pretty good starter in Harris (Harris >>> Felton), a top big man prospect in Favors (will be > Gallinari) and a certain lottery pick, maybe two.

You are right. I forgot to thank LeBron.
 
Now, looking back on what has taken place over the last two weeks, it's not only a disturbing result but also a disgusting implication as to Greg Miller's ineptitude and hubris.

The scenario I see, is one where, yeah, Sloan and Deron are not getting along. And I think it was likely becoming a doomsday scenario.

Deron or Sloan. One had to go. I really think it came down to this, and that we were witness to discord and even disobedience from Deron.

Did Deron break Sloan's plays? Did Sloan try to bench him? Whatever went on, we know that KOC and GM (irony) became directly involved at halftime, at which point Sloan resigned.

What I think happened was Miller caved to the star player. He caved as gambit, one where Sloan was THE problem for Deron, and thus the franchise. By rejecting Sloan -- forcing him out by stripping him of power; trying to humiliate him -- Miller likely figured that this would convince Deron to stay.

He might have been idiotic enough to think that he could, then, get an immediate commitment from Deron by giving him what he wanted most. But psychologically, and as a spoiled brat in his own life, Miller should have known better: should have known that giving into his star player would only convince that same star of just how powerful he was, and drain any power Utah had in dealing with him.

If there was a man in Utah's organization that demanded -- commanded -- respect, it wasn't in upper management. It was on that bench, and in that office. It was the only Hall of Famer in the building that night.

Everything the Utah Jazz embodied -- all the words and cliches -- were defined and made true by Sloan.

And now it's all gone, along with him.

How did Deron end up in New Jersey, two short weeks later, after such a choice by Jazz brass?

By the very factor of that choice. Utah got even worse after the decision was made, and Deron appeared to be as petulant as ever.

Further, he went from being noncommital about Utah, to outright hostile in his statements: the LeBron James name drop could not have been any more clear. And it's certainly possible that Deron leaked the idea of moving on to the Knicks himself.

So let's say you're Miller. You're not particularly bright; in fact, you probably have thoughts that are actually padded out in Tweets. You also have little to no clue about running an NBA team, yet you have now run the Hall Of Fame Coach that defined the organization for parts of three decades out of the building.

And you did this for Williams, the player who won't commit and is dissing you in the press. You wanted Jerry there, but you didn't have the balls to stand up to this punk.

So, no, you aren't good at your 'job', as you've never really had one. And paying close attention or really thinking things through...well, that's never been an issue before, why start now?

The two things you do have, which have always been massive, are conflated and compounding: a massive ego and the money to make people pay when you feel slighted.

Looking at all these traits, what do you do with Williams after this show of disrespect, after he's made it clear again and again that he won't stay without a high-powered team that you have no interest or ability in providing?

You do the same thing you did with Boozer. Only, thanks to the meltdown that's already taken place from the Boozer mistake on, you do it immediately.

That is, you let you're personal animus guide your judgment, and let it be the new defining characteristic of an organization named the 'Utah Jazz'.

You trade Deron Williams, and pretend it's an act of great courage rather than one of pathetic short-sightedness. To make matters worse, you tear not only the roster apart, but first make possible the best coach in the league -- particularly in relation to making your sewer water into a respectable bottle of wine (say, something from Priorat) -- off the sidelines mere weeks before creating an ugly reality that he could excel with.

You tear the entire team apart over the course of 8 months, all due to your inability to think things through.

And the Jazz, as the loyal of fans of Utah have known them -- as loyal fans from around the country and world have respected or even loved them -- are no more. There's nothing left. Nothing but a logo.

But maybe, just maybe, you followed Karl Malone's advice: on talent this could be an old school roster. After all, the old school, circa 1980, Utah Jazz were so bad they couldn't give tickets away.

An amazing achievement, in that you pulled all this off in a matter of, well, take your pick: 2 years, 8 months, or even just two weeks.

So what is the future of this organization, now? How can it ever be trusted again, after this?

And that's the point, as open question and closed statement.

These aren't Stockton to Malone's Jazz. Williams to Boozer's. Jerry and Phil's.

Or your father's.

What a disgrace. To all those men. What an epic failure.

And as with so many events that are dramatic, unexpected and ugly, as quickly as it happened it's now over.

It's all over.

Here's a song Hombre, that may soothe your soul.

"Geronimo is gone,
Sam Bass is gone,
The buffalo is gone,
The red wolf is gone..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kVdOxXB8fg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 
Unfortunately JF_2814's original post still seems to go over quite a few heads here.
I had written about some of the same things in the other thread I started yesterday.

This is not as much about whether trading Deron now was a good/bad move. How did we let this happen? How did we get to this point at all? Thats the issue.Even 2 years back, KOC was selling this stuff about having patience with a young team and building to win a championship. We were supposed to be just a piece or two away from being an elite conteder. And now just 2 years later, he is all about the next rebuilding plan.

Did any reporter at this point ask him about what happened to the previous rebuilding exercise? Right.You would'nt expect anyone in SLC media to embarass Greg or KOC like that. They are like, extended company men. Some of them are paid to paint a rosy picture for the season ticket holders.

In 2014 or 2015, I suspect, if I am still around here, I will see a similiar thread talking about how in the world could the Jazz let Favors walk away and could have traded AJ or Harris for cost cutting reasons. And KOC would be laying out his rebuilding plans for a championship in 2020. He is already onto his second rebuilding in 6 years. That tells the story.
 
Koc may have said be patient, however the team did not gel or grow as he anticipated. Do you think deron had the stomach to face the inevitable and blow the team up again? No. Trading Deron was the first piece. This team will look very different after this season.
 
Unfortunately JF_2814's original post still seems to go over quite a few heads here.
I had written about some of the same things in the other thread I started yesterday.

This is not as much about whether trading Deron now was a good/bad move. How did we let this happen? How did we get to this point at all? Thats the issue.Even 2 years back, KOC was selling this stuff about having patience with a young team and building to win a championship. We were supposed to be just a piece or two away from being an elite conteder. And now just 2 years later, he is all about the next rebuilding plan.

Did any reporter at this point ask him about what happened to the previous rebuilding exercise? Right.You would'nt expect anyone in SLC media to embarass Greg or KOC like that. They are like, extended company men. Some of them are paid to paint a rosy picture for the season ticket holders.

In 2014 or 2015, I suspect, if I am still around here, I will see a similiar thread talking about how in the world could the Jazz let Favors walk away and could have traded AJ or Harris for cost cutting reasons. And KOC would be laying out his rebuilding plans for a championship in 2020. He is already onto his second rebuilding in 6 years. That tells the story.

Exactly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_NDmzL9lrg
 
There is only one champion each year. Every team is looking for a combination of players that has a chance to win it. Some realize they are a few years away, and are looking for progress. Others think they are a player or two away, and keep looking for that last link or two. Every team wants to be a winner, and only one per year is successful.

The Jazz tried to build around a couple of free agents (Boozer and Okur). They were good, but not good enough. Then they tried to add Deron Williams... Better, but not good enough to win a championship.

Do you keep trying to build around DWill? At what point do you say "he makes us good, but not good enough?" or "He won't be here long enough tot build around?"

Most rebuilding plans by most teams fail most of the time. That is a fact of life in the NBA. As long as anything less than a championship constitutes failure, there will be a lot of miserable fan bases.

I don't think the Jazz could win a championship with the core they have had, nor was DWill going to stay around long enough to build around him. I applaud them for saying "the last two rebuilding attempts failed, so lets try again a different way."

How did they get to this point? They gambled (everyone team does it because nobody is a proven commodity in the NBA) and won a few and lost a few. I hope they keep gambling, and one day they will win.

THIS IS CERTAINLY NOT THE END!!!
 
There is only one champion each year. Every team is looking for a combination of players that has a chance to win it. Some realize they are a few years away, and are looking for progress. Others think they are a player or two away, and keep looking for that last link or two. Every team wants to be a winner, and only one per year is successful.

The Jazz tried to build around a couple of free agents (Boozer and Okur). They were good, but not good enough. Then they tried to add Deron Williams... Better, but not good enough to win a championship.

Do you keep trying to build around DWill? At what point do you say "he makes us good, but not good enough?" or "He won't be here long enough tot build around?"

Most rebuilding plans by most teams fail most of the time. That is a fact of life in the NBA. As long as anything less than a championship constitutes failure, there will be a lot of miserable fan bases.

I don't think the Jazz could win a championship with the core they have had, nor was DWill going to stay around long enough to build around him. I applaud them for saying "the last two rebuilding attempts failed, so lets try again a different way."

How did they get to this point? They gambled (everyone team does it because nobody is a proven commodity in the NBA) and won a few and lost a few. I hope they keep gambling, and one day they will win.

THIS IS CERTAINLY NOT THE END!!!

True. It's a beginning.

While I sympathize with the OP, time doesn't wait for the hopeless romantic, and the fact is is that Larry is no longer with us. That's just how it is. It's Greg's team now, and perhaps he wished for Sloan and his shadow to be gone. Trading Deron first would have only made it more difficult for that to happen.

Greg is now free to put his own stamp on the club's future. I can't blame a kid for wanting that. Now it's time to hope his intentions are to win a championship. Only time will tell.
 
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