The history white people need to learn

[JAZZGASM]

Yep.

I tend to think that they were thought of as white 100 years ago as well though..... maybe poor white, or immigrant white, but white none the less.

The arcticle seems to be saying, and I'm simplifying, that white means well off or powerful.
I tend to think that poor, white, underprivileged people have always existed and have been considered white

The article has a very focused opinion that is flawed IMO. Those in power will do what is necessary to keep power, regardless of who they suppress. The largest oppressed group in this country (and the world) are those that are poor.

 

[8]

Read Howard Zinn's book y'all

 

[fishonjazz]

You are allowed to think that, and you are allowed to choose to be wrong. If you go back about 120 years, you'll find drawings illustrating the supposedly ape-like features of the Irish, essays on their low character, etc.

according to the arcticle it seems that 100+ years ago, white = rich and powerful
So does that mean that wealthy and powerful africans, asians, arabs, etc were considered to be white back then? Interesting

 

[Deleted member 848]

according to the arcticle it seems that 100+ years ago, white = rich and powerful
So does that mean that wealthy and powerful africans, asians, arabs, etc were considered to be white back then? Interesting

I'd really suggest reading the article again-- and as you're doing so, try to understand what the author is trying to "say", instead of focusing on why the author is wrong, or why his arguments have holes.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'd really suggest reading the article again-- and as you're doing so, try to understand what the author is trying to "say", instead of focusing on why the author is wrong, or why his arguments have holes.

It's a girl.

 

[Deleted member 848]

It's a girl.

Definitely meant to type she. Friggin touchscreen

 

[fishonjazz]

I'd really suggest reading the article again-- and as you're doing so, try to understand what the author is trying to "say", instead of focusing on why the author is wrong, or why his arguments have holes.

Maybe my reading comprehension sucks. I read the article and thought she was saying that the term white was created as a label for the rich and powerful.

Maybe you can better tell me what she is trying to say in the article

 

[8]

I'd really suggest reading the article again-- and as you're doing so, try to understand what the author is trying to "say", instead of focusing on why the author is wrong, or why his arguments have holes.

Nah bro. We've seen too many political debates

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Maybe my reading comprehension sucks. I read the article and thought she was saying that the term white was created as a label for the rich and powerful.

Maybe you can better tell me what she is trying to say in the article

You read the article or just the blurb that was posted?

 

[fishonjazz]

You read the article or just the blurb that was posted?

Just the part posted in the OP

Can you write a summary of what the article meant to you?

 

[Nate505]

You are allowed to think that, and you are allowed to choose to be wrong. If you go back about 120 years, you'll find drawings illustrating the supposedly ape-like features of the Irish, essays on their low character, etc.

But were they considered white in their time? For example, did they suffer from Jim Crow like blacks did? Did they have to use superstar drinking fountains? Did their children go to separate public schools?

 

[LogGrad98]

Loggrad won't rest until he gets his month to worship mayonnaise, Jimmy Buffet, and watch The Big Bang Theory.

You forgot Warren Buffet (cuz he's rich AND white, duh) and Ted Nugent (gun nut).

BBT on repeat FTW.

 

[♪alt13]

"Black pride", "gay pride", etc. is not about feeling pride per se; it's about rejecting shame. Messages of how black culture is bad, gay people are sinful, etc. reverberate in popular culture; these pride events are saying that people are not ashamed of who they are. It's a public declaration of the rejection of society's messages.

First let's not confuse modern black pride and gay pride. It is legal for me to marry a black woman but it is illegal for me to marry a man of any color. There is no evidence that blacks as a group(a group that black pride is intent on emphasizing) exemplify greater support for gay rights. In fact if we are to believe public opinion polls the opposite is true.

Black pride clearly is about pride. Listen to the rhetoric. Terms like "the white man" are pervasive. Black pride is not addressing a set of higher humanist ideals that apply to all people. It is a singling out. A base urge akin to nationalism whereby people choose to embrace the pride of a constructed group.

Take the word ******. There was a time when the re appropriation of the n word was justifiable. Now the only people that openly use the word are black. A word that is arguably the most offensive word anyone can think of is now used by millions to self identify. A word that has not lost the connotations of slavery, segregation, and racism. ****** is offensive no matter who utters it. It is offensive to humankind.

You think I should kowtow and accept racial derision and devision in 2014? You think I should define myself as "the white man" or a "cracker *** bitch"?

When someone is treated unjustly because of the color of their skin(or sexual orientation, ethnicity, sex, etc.) I will stand by them not for some antiquated notion of pride or some hipster idea of solidarity. I will do it of the idea of personal honor and responsibility that all people have to uphold justice and equitability.

Sooner or later the race baiting has got to stop.

 

[fishonjazz]

First let's not confuse modern black pride and gay pride. It is legal for me to marry a black woman but it is illegal for me to marry a man of any color. There is no evidence that blacks as a group(a group that black pride is intent on emphasizing) exemplify greater support for gay rights. In fact if we are to believe public opinion polls the opposite is true.

Black pride clearly is about pride. Listen to the rhetoric. Terms like "the white man" are pervasive. Black pride is not addressing a set of higher humanist ideals that apply to all people. It is a singling out. A base urge akin to nationalism whereby people choose to embrace the pride of a constructed group.

Take the word ******. There was a time when the re appropriation of the n word was justifiable. Now the only people that openly use the word are black. A word that is arguably the most offensive word anyone can think of is now used by millions to self identify. A word that has not lost the connotations of slavery, segregation, and racism. ****** is offensive no matter who utters it. It is offensive to humankind.

You think I should kowtow and accept racial derision and devision in 2014? You think I should define myself as "the white man" or a "cracker *** bitch"?

When someone is treated unjustly because of the color of their skin(or sexual orientation, ethnicity, sex, etc.) I will stand by them not for some antiquated notion of pride or some hipster idea of solidarity. I will do it of the idea of personal honor and responsibility that all people have to uphold justice and equitability.

Sooner or later the race baiting has got to stop.

Great post

 

[Siro]

I'm very proud of the actions of long dead people who lived in a culture that eventually evolved into the completely different culture I was incidentally born into.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Great post

Not really though.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm very proud of the actions of long dead people who lived in a culture that eventually evolved into the completely different culture I was incidentally born into.

I like this one too

 

[BYE]

First let's not confuse modern black pride and gay pride. It is legal for me to marry a black woman but it is illegal for me to marry a man of any color. There is no evidence that blacks as a group(a group that black pride is intent on emphasizing) exemplify greater support for gay rights. In fact if we are to believe public opinion polls the opposite is true.

Black pride clearly is about pride. Listen to the rhetoric. Terms like "the white man" are pervasive. Black pride is not addressing a set of higher humanist ideals that apply to all people. It is a singling out. A base urge akin to nationalism whereby people choose to embrace the pride of a constructed group.

Take the word ******. There was a time when the re appropriation of the n word was justifiable. Now the only people that openly use the word are black. A word that is arguably the most offensive word anyone can think of is now used by millions to self identify. A word that has not lost the connotations of slavery, segregation, and racism. ****** is offensive no matter who utters it. It is offensive to humankind.

You think I should kowtow and accept racial derision and devision in 2014? You think I should define myself as "the white man" or a "cracker *** bitch"?

When someone is treated unjustly because of the color of their skin(or sexual orientation, ethnicity, sex, etc.) I will stand by them not for some antiquated notion of pride or some hipster idea of solidarity. I will do it of the idea of personal honor and responsibility that all people have to uphold justice and equitability.

Sooner or later the race baiting has got to stop.

I more or less agree with your line of thinking in that the very category which someone who is "black" or otherwise utilizes to give themselves solidarity is the one that was decided for them through the devised term "white" and thus "black". By keeping the language of "black" you keep "white" and thus the baggage and antithesis. The problem is that there are real infringements on the rights of a given human being who is considered "black" (as a lesser human) by those "whites" that are in positions of power. How do you protect these people "blacks" and their rights without using the parlance of the historical dichotomy, i.e., "black" and "white"? The solution in my eyes is to try and lump this inequality and oppression into one category of general human inequality and injustice. The logistics of this from a governmental perspective are difficult, but you can do it at a personal level quite easily.

 

[moevillini]

Yep.

I tend to think that they were thought of as white 100 years ago as well though..... maybe poor white, or immigrant white, but white none the less.

The arcticle seems to be saying, and I'm simplifying, that white means well off or powerful.
I tend to think that poor, white, underprivileged people have always existed and have been considered white

according to the arcticle it seems that 100+ years ago, white = rich and powerful
So does that mean that wealthy and powerful africans, asians, arabs, etc were considered to be white back then? Interesting

Maybe my reading comprehension sucks. I read the article and thought she was saying that the term white was created as a label for the rich and powerful.

Maybe you can better tell me what she is trying to say in the article

But were they considered white in their time? For example, did they suffer from Jim Crow like blacks did? Did they have to use superstar drinking fountains? Did their children go to separate public schools?

eh, here's my take on at least the first part of the article:

White did not have to have any sort of meaning until non-whites began to have power. Thus, the immigrants of the 1800's and very early 1900's were not considered "white" because there was no real reason to differentiate them based on color - - blacks had none anyhow. So the discrimination was based more on the way they dressed, the way they spoke, their personal and religious customs and other things that would differentiate various nationalities and ethnic groups.

anyhow, that's all the deep thinking I have time for at the moment

 

[One Brow]

First let's not confuse modern black pride and gay pride. It is legal for me to marry a black woman but it is illegal for me to marry a man of any color. There is no evidence that blacks as a group(a group that black pride is intent on emphasizing) exemplify greater support for gay rights. In fact if we are to believe public opinion polls the opposite is true.

It's not confusing them to note that they have common elements.

Black pride clearly is about pride. Listen to the rhetoric. Terms like "the white man" are pervasive. Black pride is not addressing a set of higher humanist ideals that apply to all people. It is a singling out. A base urge akin to nationalism whereby people choose to embrace the pride of a constructed group.

I have listened to the rhetoric. I learned to listen without feeling the need to defend myself and my position in society, and doing so allowed me to see past the guilt I was imposing onto the rhetoric.

If you think term like "straight people" are not pervasive in discussion of gay pride, then it's really hard to take anything you have to say on the subject seriously.

Finally, of course it is about pride, in the sense that pride (the willingness to be open about who you are) is in some ways the opposite of shame (hiding who you are). It's just not about the type of pride you described earlier.

Take the word ******.

Y0u could make similarly true statements about ***, but you choose not to. Why?

You think I should kowtow and accept racial derision and devision in 2014? You think I should define myself as "the white man" or a "cracker *** bitch"?

I think you should acknowledge the benefit you have received from an identity that you had nothing to do with constructing, and note how your words can serve to either combat or reinforce this identity.

Sooner or later the race baiting has got to stop.

Sooner or later white people will stop blaming black people for how white people treat black people.