Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
What's a riggot?
The Jazz are trading D-Will to New Jersey!?
- Thread starter YB85
- Start date
What's a riggot?
This is the first time I have said this in a serious manner: Please delete your account.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I agree.
I think we now know Deron was a huge part of the problem with Sloan. That the ultra-conservative Jazz FO traded him may indicate he either had quietly asked for a trade or everything he has said and done has them believing they had little chance of kepping him. It was a great move. We get Favors, who many wanted desperately in the draft. He'll eventually start at PF (I hope) and Millsap can go back to being "super-sub" and play balls-out for 25 mins/per. That's what is really missing, is that great production off the bench.
I'm still hoping one more move is coming...if the Jazz can get something for AK. It takes some pressure off. Now I think Utah can trade him for a good sub, some additional cap/tax relief and a mid-to-late 1st rounder. That would potentially give the Jazz 3 picks in the draft (provided they miss the playoffs).
What it means is that ultra conservative Jazz stayed ultra conservative: they preferred to have certainty of a draft pick, who is obligated to sign for 4 years vs uncertainty of keeping a superstar, who may or may not want to sign extension. Now, the Jazz did not show any balls here. On the contrary, they were true to their conservative selves, preferring to play it safe and have picks (which by the way may not be all that high in the draft), rather than a chance to keep a great player. And they didn't even want to take ANY chance to wait for a year, so they could offer Deron extension. They chose the safest route possible. Rotten safe thinking,which just ensured lottery for years to come.
Nets could have had Cousins, who is a true C, also freshman, and led his team to top 5 ranking, while putting up superior stats. Instead they chose Favors who did not lead his team anywhere and was basically a scrub by NCAA standards. But he was athletic, like Dark Milicic. Favors then followed up with scrub like performance in NBA for one of the worst teams in the League (while Cousins is actually putting up good numbers for his team). So, I am not sure who desperately wanted Favors, but certainly I wish Nets would have drafted Cousins instead, so we would actually have a young guy, who is already good now, rather than a scrub.
It's a long shot at this point. Millsap actually had a much better rookie year than Favors, but Favors is younger, so there is hope. Of course we could have just kept Deron and we would have had our 6th man next year when Okur recovers.
Why not just make that move you are talking about, get that 6th man with Okur next year, and keep Deron? Wouldn't that make us better than we are right now with a huge downgrade at PG and a 5ppg PF?
Nope. You keep assuming D-Will was going to resign. Jazz insiders indicate he wouldn't. The closer you wait til his contract is up, the less leverage you have. D-Will was leaving the Jazz. I suppose four potential lottery picks isn't good enough for you? Should the Jazz have traded D-Will for LeBron or Durant? Because getting what they did considering D-Will was leaving is close to being a steal when a superstar wants out.
If you think the Jazz got raped you clearly don't follow other player movement in the NBA (with the exception of the Gasol trade).
Good grief man. Favors is 19 years old. He can't improve?
Who is going to take Okur's contract? The guy is walking wounded.
Also, with D-Will around their was a power struggle between him and Corbin. Now there won't be.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
And we had two with Boozer and Millsap. Jazz need depth. They need rebounding. Millsap is best off the bench and that may very well happen over the next couple of seasons. Nobody is gone to give up a superstar for Deron. You generally get a couple of starters or good prospects and draft picks (that's what the Knicks gave up for 'Melo). This was a pretty good outcome if the Jazz FO thought Deron was not going to re-sign and/or he's been a real problem in the lockerroom.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Nor did Bozzer. Dwill never said he wanted to STAY in Utah. He has always been non-commital. His last statement may have been the most telling and tipped the scales. If I were paying a guy MAX money, I'd ayt least want him to say something along the lines of: "I want to win. I want a championship. The Jazz have not been playing well this season, but I have confidence we'll re-group and the team and management will do what it takes to make us a contender."
Marty McFly
Well-Known Member
The more I hear about this, and think about it, the more pissed off I am. As Siler said, we'll never find another superstar that embraced Utah the way Deron did.
****.
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No. You keep assuming he will leave. I am saying I don't know. What I do know is that we have a whole year to make something happen IF (and this is a big if) he does not sign extension. There was were need to make this trade now. We were not presented an offer we can't refuse here. And as far as less leverage as it gets closer, he is still year and a half away IF he does not sign extension. Besides, Denver was 2 days away from deadline, and they got better offers than we did with over a year away.
Nets did not give up all that much. They were going to trade Harris for expiring contract to Dallas anyway. They wanted to dump his salary regardless, so they save CAP room to have a chance to sign guys like Deron. Now, not only did they dump Harris, they actually got Deron! Now, the 4 picks you are talking about are actually 2 picks and Favors. Favors, as I said million times, is a project, who right now is a scrub. Maybe he will improve, maybe not. For now I don't know if he will ever be better than Millsap or even good enough to carry Millsap's jock strap. Hayward had a much better College career than Favors, and is almost as young. And 2 picks are not that great either. GSW one is protected and might end up either 10+ or (if protection kicks in) we end up with 2nd rounder. Nets pick is unprotected and is #6 as it stands today. With DWill there improving their team now and half a season yet to be played, it will likely be around 10 also. We are probably looking Gordan Hayward type of picks here plus Favors, who is a scrub with potential. What I would want is to get a young PROVEN player. Maybe not as good as DWill, but the one we can be reasonably certain will be good. Like John Wall, Cousins, Lopez. Or what the hell, how about if both CP3 and DWill want change, we could trade them for each other during summer. The bottom line is, we did not get any proven commodity, we did not get really high top 3 picks. How is this a deal that we couldn't refuse year and a half in advance? We just got raped here, as simple as that.
What are the other trades in NBA history where one team got the best player at their position, who is young, without giving up either a major player, or as much as top 5 selection? And yes Favors is young, but he is struggling to be anything more than a scrub now. By this rationale, why don't we get a superstar for a package involving Hayward. He is also young and actually more accomplished College player than Favors?
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Actually you are not fully disclosing what happened. When Deron was given his MAX contract he was offered MAX for the full number of years. He chose the shorter contract with a player option (just like Chrissy Paul). His recent comments re: 2012 were not very reassuring either. I don't disagree the Jazz will be worse in the short term. Deron is an all-star, a legit 20-10 player. But Corbin sat down with KOC and Greg over the break to discuss the team and players, so this weas pretty well thought out. According to some, the Jazz explored trading Deron earlier in the season. We'll never know the extent of Deron's discontent. I don't know what his problems were with Sloan, but it was apparent Deron wasn't happy. The Jazz clearly hedged their bets. Getting a starter, potential starter and two 1sts is a pretty fair price by league standards.
Dumping Okur who can't even play would require GIVING UP assets. Look at what we had to give up to dump Harpring - and his contract was covered by insurance. Okur still has one year left!
As for AK, a lot of teams have expiring contracts to offer. Maybe a contender steps forward and offers a young player and late first. Still could happen. But I'm not holding my breath.
Booz actually took player option to stay in Utah, and before he tool Bull's offer, there was a report he came to Utah asking for a match. Jazz refused and he left. And you know what: Millsap is not able to fill Boozer's shoes, which is the reason why are struggling. Now, with DWill gone, it is an enormous downgrade, much worse than losing Booz (even though that loss hurt and Booz wanted Jazz to match!).
Maybe we could have traded him for Crissy Paul then? The point is, we had time. We could have offered him extension, and if he said no, we could have then looked at trades, like for Crissy Paul. There was time. There was no reason to trade him for a player Nets were dumping anyway, 2 picks outside of top 5 (and maybe top 10, one of them for sure closer to 10 than 5, or worse) and Favors, who even though is a high pick, but proved nothing in NCAA or NBA. What JAzz did went ultra conservative and played it as safe as possible like they always do. That's why Sloan was coach for 23 years in spite of not winning a title. Jazz want to be safe. Sloan kept them safe. Picks were safer than worrying about Deron possibly leaving. Jazz just did what they always do. And as far as us being worse short term, just last year Deron and Booz took us to conf semis. A few years back - conf Finals. Let's wait and see when we get to these levels again. My guess is, it will be anything but short term.
First, you have to realize how lucky we were to even get that superstar to begin with. Basically we had to have a good draft pick, then make a trade and thanks stupidity of Portland to allow us to get into top 3. Getting a superstar like that is no easy task. And we didn't even get top 3 pick to draft a guy like that. And even if we are ever abel to find one, it will probably take years for him to develop. This move may have set this franchise back for a good part of the decade.
Take a look at the teams that do not have that star player and tell me how many of they are contending for a title or borderline contenders. In the west you got Duncan, Parker, Kobe, Dirk, Gasol, Westbrook, Durant in top 4 teams. In the East you have Miami trio, Pierce, KG, Howard, Rose. These are top 8 teams, and each has superstar players in it, sometimes more than 1. We were fortunate to be in this category, and we just gave up that superstar, instead of building around him, bringing good players to him, like he wanted.
ouch.
once again i am stunned. so many conflicting thoughts.
gotta believe that the jazz gave themselves no chance of re-signing deron so looked to move now while they had some leverage and probably a few options.
(wonder what sacramento was offering?)
also gotta believe that they knew fans would swallow this trade a whole lot better in the middle of a horrible, horrible slump.
the truth is that you don't win any trade in which you trade a top tier all-star and don't receive one back... and we just traded the best point guard in the league.
still i'm optimistic overall. hopefully once ak is off the books and the cba gets sorted we can address our weaknesses at centre and on the wings with some improved drafting and some better luck in free agency.
goodbye deron - you've been awesome.
once again i am stunned. so many conflicting thoughts.
gotta believe that the jazz gave themselves no chance of re-signing deron so looked to move now while they had some leverage and probably a few options.
(wonder what sacramento was offering?)
also gotta believe that they knew fans would swallow this trade a whole lot better in the middle of a horrible, horrible slump.
the truth is that you don't win any trade in which you trade a top tier all-star and don't receive one back... and we just traded the best point guard in the league.
still i'm optimistic overall. hopefully once ak is off the books and the cba gets sorted we can address our weaknesses at centre and on the wings with some improved drafting and some better luck in free agency.
goodbye deron - you've been awesome.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
My feelings on the move:
A small-market team trading an all-star point guard who's a top-10 NBA player and who isn't scheduled to become a free agent for another 18 months - in which time there will be a new CBA in effect - is a pure panic move by ownership and management and shows they have a complete lack of confidence in their own abilities to build a team capable of competing in the top-4 in the Western conference during that time.
The only way this could be deemed a "good trade" is if you're of the belief the Jazz absolutely had to trade Deron, and that was not the case at all. Just another poor reflection on the leadership within the organization, and we all know leadership starts at the top.
A small-market team trading an all-star point guard who's a top-10 NBA player and who isn't scheduled to become a free agent for another 18 months - in which time there will be a new CBA in effect - is a pure panic move by ownership and management and shows they have a complete lack of confidence in their own abilities to build a team capable of competing in the top-4 in the Western conference during that time.
The only way this could be deemed a "good trade" is if you're of the belief the Jazz absolutely had to trade Deron, and that was not the case at all. Just another poor reflection on the leadership within the organization, and we all know leadership starts at the top.
asian_roger
Well-Known Member
Deron will be missed
Deron was a beast. He was going through some tough times right now and hasn't been performing like an all-star lately, however...I was hoping he could get everything back together after all-star weekend. The Jazz are running around without a leader now. I will miss u deron, even after all the moaning and b*tching you did. We all know in our hearts you probably were not going to sign an extension (we all can feel it). Jazz did what they had to do. Now we can welcome favors and harris, who should very well know they better step up their game to replace an all star. Jazz probably won't trade Ak cause he's our leader at the moment, but please....GET RID OF MILES. Just watched him play again tonight and took some of the dumbest shouts like usual (you know...the ones that only Kobe can make). Watson can't shoot worth **** either. I say we go for CP3 when his contract expires and Ak either goes away or comes back A LOT CHEAPER. I personally think he has a better attitude than Williams and will be a beast in the Jazz system.
Deron was a beast. He was going through some tough times right now and hasn't been performing like an all-star lately, however...I was hoping he could get everything back together after all-star weekend. The Jazz are running around without a leader now. I will miss u deron, even after all the moaning and b*tching you did. We all know in our hearts you probably were not going to sign an extension (we all can feel it). Jazz did what they had to do. Now we can welcome favors and harris, who should very well know they better step up their game to replace an all star. Jazz probably won't trade Ak cause he's our leader at the moment, but please....GET RID OF MILES. Just watched him play again tonight and took some of the dumbest shouts like usual (you know...the ones that only Kobe can make). Watson can't shoot worth **** either. I say we go for CP3 when his contract expires and Ak either goes away or comes back A LOT CHEAPER. I personally think he has a better attitude than Williams and will be a beast in the Jazz system.