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The juxtaposition of the Bojan Bogdanovic approach and the John Collins approach

This is mostly for @infection

Here is my Danny Ainge analogy/allegory…

My son likes to go to “the bins”. What are the bins? It’s a massive warehouse where Goodwill bring a ton of stuff that is donated before it hits stores or is shipped to recyclers. It’s these giant bins and people rummage through and find treasures and they get to pay by the pound.

The reason my son likes to go there is he found a few high ticket items he sold for a $100 here and there as well as some lower ticket items he sells to some of the local clothing retailers. He also finds stuff he likes to wear even if it doesn’t fit he wears the clothes like a badge of honor. He loves those more than new clothes acquired through traditional means.

He was on a kick where he was going there multiple times a week when he was supposed to be finding a job and I was getting pretty annoyed “but dad I got this shirt and I can resell it for $75… I don’t need a job”. When you added up gas/time etc it may have been breaking even but not making much more than gas. It’s fine though cuz him and his friends like to do it but it doesn’t replace actual work/income.

Danny Ainge feels like my son at the bins. Searching for deals and finding some nice treasures. A noble activity so long as you aren’t ignoring the big picture/responsibilities. Get addicted to the deal and your own projects and you end up being the kid wearing the Affliction t shirt and size 40 name brand jeans that are way too big.

DA is a value hunter which is good but if that is all you are doing without much thought it will lead to having a closet full of THTs that no one wants to buy. And while you have a JC and a sexton at home you are also eyeballing the hell out of that Tyler Herro at the store. Like my son he’s in a spot where he needs get rid of some stuff before he can buy anymore… but that’s no fun so he heads back to the bins.

I have no doubt DA is looking for bigger things but his value hunting hobby has taken too big of a place when he needs to be shaping the roster a bit more. Even if that means selling off a THT for not much, or not rearing a Jordan Clarkson even though the price is really nice, or moving Sexton even though he think Sextons will be making a big comeback next season. I’m not super frustrated with it yet but he needs to do some things in season to make things make sense.

DA stop going to the bins and fill out a few job applications please.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
This is mostly for @infection

Here is my Danny Ainge analogy/allegory…

My son likes to go to “the bins”. What are the bins? It’s a massive warehouse where Goodwill bring a ton of stuff that is donated before it hits stores or is shipped to recyclers. It’s these giant bins and people rummage through and find treasures and they get to pay by the pound.

The reason my son likes to go there is he found a few high ticket items he sold for a $100 here and there as well as some lower ticket items he sells to some of the local clothing retailers. He also finds stuff he likes to wear even if it doesn’t fit he wears the clothes like a badge of honor. He loves those more than new clothes acquired through traditional means.

He was on a kick where he was going there multiple times a week when he was supposed to be finding a job and I was getting pretty annoyed “but dad I got this shirt and I can resell it for $75… I don’t need a job”. When you added up gas/time etc it may have been breaking even but not making much more than gas. It’s fine though cuz him and his friends like to do it but it doesn’t replace actual work/income.

Danny Ainge feels like my son at the bins. Searching for deals and finding some nice treasures. A noble activity so long as you aren’t ignoring the big picture/responsibilities. Get addicted to the deal and your own projects and you end up being the kid wearing the Affliction t shirt and size 40 name brand jeans that are way too big.

DA is a value hunter which is good but if that is all you are doing without much thought it will lead to having a closet full of THTs that no one wants to buy. And while you have a JC and a sexton at home you are also eyeballing the hell out of that Tyler Herro at the store. Like my son he’s in a spot where he needs get rid of some stuff before he can buy anymore… but that’s no fun so he heads back to the bins.

I have no doubt DA is looking for bigger things but his value hunting hobby has taken too big of a place when he needs to be shaping the roster a bit more. Even if that means selling off a THT for not much, or not rearing a Jordan Clarkson even though the price is really nice, or moving Sexton even though he think Sextons will be making a big comeback next season. I’m not super frustrated with it yet but he needs to do some things in season to make things make sense.

DA stop going to the bins and fill out a few job applications please.
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And the main point of this is... there is no real approach other than value. We are trying to give an approach to a 16 yo with ADHD wandering through a rummage warehouse... we are going to end up with some weird **** in the trunk of the car and trying to make sense of it is a fool's errand.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
And the main point of this is... there is no real approach other than value. We are trying to give an approach to a 16 yo with ADHD wandering through a rummage warehouse... we are going to end up with some weird **** in the trunk of the car and trying to make sense of it is a fool's errand.
Click to expand...
I mean it is very, very evident that when the Jazz get an opportunity to "bluesky" a choice for a player, they try to get plus positional size, and a shooter. If they can get athleticism, that's a plus. Some of the players we have are people on deals that we are looking to flip later. All of our guards but Keyonte and Clarkson are likely gone in 2 years with Ochai on the bubble. I can definitely see the direction we are going with the front court, and I am on board.

A real lack of direction would be flipping assets for players that might make sense this year and not for the next two. How much are you willing to give for a backup lead guard? I would submit that the future starting job has already been sorted.
 
framer said:
I mean it is very, very evident that when the Jazz get an opportunity to "bluesky" a choice for a player, they try to get plus positional size, and a shooter. If they can get athleticism, that's a plus. Some of the players we have are people on deals that we are looking to flip later. All of our guards but Keyonte and Clarkson are likely gone in 2 years with Ochai on the bubble. I can definitely see the direction we are going with the front court, and I am on board.

A real lack of direction would be flipping assets for players that might make sense this year and not for the next two. How much are you willing to give for a backup lead guard? I would submit that the future starting job has already been sorted.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure any of this is really true, but it shows part of the issue with "the approach". No one really knows what they are up to. We may have been aiming for positional size and shooting but we have a closet full of THT, Sexton, JC, Dunn... Collins is an athlete but not necessarily long or a shooter. Acquiring a bunch of stuff to flip later is part of what I am getting at with the analogy. That is exactly what my son does. At some point you look at getting stuff that works well with what you are doing and are less consumed with the value in the transaction.

We have a general direction in "we'd like to be good" but its not a real map and whatever comes on sale seems to be what we acquire. It works at some level but at some point you have to push in a direction that makes the roster fit. Taking whatever "the bins" yields is not a strategy to rely and depend on.

If Ainge moves 1 or 2 of JC, Sexton, THT or Dunn for value and maybe gets a real pg to supplement some of what those guys and Key give us... then it starts to make more sense. If we don't get an offer we like and just hold on to all of them because the value wasn't there... then I don't think there was a great plan. It was a bigger mistake last year than this year imo but hanging out in no man's land with a weird roster that doesn't allow your young players more room to grow... kinda rough.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
And the main point of this is... there is no real approach other than value. We are trying to give an approach to a 16 yo with ADHD wandering through a rummage warehouse... we are going to end up with some weird **** in the trunk of the car and trying to make sense of it is a fool's errand.
Click to expand...
It is completely opportunistic value. There are great aspirations and goals but no apparent plan. If you are going to trade two all stars you should definitely tank. We are a tweener the last two years. Hopefully something big comes along were we can trade our assets for real talent. I wonder how long Hardy will hang out here if they dont get him a core of talent that can win in the short term.
 
gomretat said:
It is completely opportunistic value. There are great aspirations and goals but no apparent plan. If you are going to trade two all stars you should definitely tank. We are a tweener the last two years. Hopefully something big comes along were we can trade our assets for real talent. I wonder how long Hardy will hang out here if they dont get him a core of talent that can win in the short term.
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Yeah and the real issue was last year. I don’t quite know that tanking has the payoff it could have had last year.

I didn’t love the Collins deal but he’s played well and overall I’m fine with it. It’s really the glut of combo guards we have and not having a real playmaker organizer out there is going to cause issues. We kinda doubled down on “mid” this offseason and that’d even be okay… if it was mid at positions of need. If Kessler gets going then the John Collins deal is fine… if it’s stunts his growth then it becomes an issue.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
This is mostly for @infection

Here is my Danny Ainge analogy/allegory…

My son likes to go to “the bins”. What are the bins? It’s a massive warehouse where Goodwill bring a ton of stuff that is donated before it hits stores or is shipped to recyclers. It’s these giant bins and people rummage through and find treasures and they get to pay by the pound.

The reason my son likes to go there is he found a few high ticket items he sold for a $100 here and there as well as some lower ticket items he sells to some of the local clothing retailers. He also finds stuff he likes to wear even if it doesn’t fit he wears the clothes like a badge of honor. He loves those more than new clothes acquired through traditional means.

He was on a kick where he was going there multiple times a week when he was supposed to be finding a job and I was getting pretty annoyed “but dad I got this shirt and I can resell it for $75… I don’t need a job”. When you added up gas/time etc it may have been breaking even but not making much more than gas. It’s fine though cuz him and his friends like to do it but it doesn’t replace actual work/income.

Danny Ainge feels like my son at the bins. Searching for deals and finding some nice treasures. A noble activity so long as you aren’t ignoring the big picture/responsibilities. Get addicted to the deal and your own projects and you end up being the kid wearing the Affliction t shirt and size 40 name brand jeans that are way too big.

DA is a value hunter which is good but if that is all you are doing without much thought it will lead to having a closet full of THTs that no one wants to buy. And while you have a JC and a sexton at home you are also eyeballing the hell out of that Tyler Herro at the store. Like my son he’s in a spot where he needs get rid of some stuff before he can buy anymore… but that’s no fun so he heads back to the bins.

I have no doubt DA is looking for bigger things but his value hunting hobby has taken too big of a place when he needs to be shaping the roster a bit more. Even if that means selling off a THT for not much, or not rearing a Jordan Clarkson even though the price is really nice, or moving Sexton even though he think Sextons will be making a big comeback next season. I’m not super frustrated with it yet but he needs to do some things in season to make things make sense.

DA stop going to the bins and fill out a few job applications please.
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You and Infection deserve infractions for your use of analogies
 
Ron Mexico said:
Which I greatly appreciate. I made it to:


Not for me next post, haha.
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I would skip that nonsense too... I may ramble but I'm a courteous rambler. Unlike my ahole retired neighbor Jim... I don't need to hear about how much I should be watering and fertilizing my lawn Jim! I've got more important things to worry about.


What were we talking about?
 
It's funny people still think Bogey is better than Kelly.

In a vacuum, maybe, but Kelly is clearly way better for this team.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
It's funny people still think Bogey is better than Kelly.

In a vacuum, maybe, but Kelly is clearly way better for this team.
Click to expand...
Kelly is the more complete player. We, well at least I, have severely underrated him over the years. He's better than I ever thought he was. He does the little dirty things that help a team win. We need that. Bogey was straight up a better shooter and scorer but Kelly is a better player overall. The high 3 pt % is just icing on the cake.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
This is mostly for @infection

Here is my Danny Ainge analogy/allegory…

My son likes to go to “the bins”. What are the bins? It’s a massive warehouse where Goodwill bring a ton of stuff that is donated before it hits stores or is shipped to recyclers. It’s these giant bins and people rummage through and find treasures and they get to pay by the pound.

The reason my son likes to go there is he found a few high ticket items he sold for a $100 here and there as well as some lower ticket items he sells to some of the local clothing retailers. He also finds stuff he likes to wear even if it doesn’t fit he wears the clothes like a badge of honor. He loves those more than new clothes acquired through traditional means.

He was on a kick where he was going there multiple times a week when he was supposed to be finding a job and I was getting pretty annoyed “but dad I got this shirt and I can resell it for $75… I don’t need a job”. When you added up gas/time etc it may have been breaking even but not making much more than gas. It’s fine though cuz him and his friends like to do it but it doesn’t replace actual work/income.

Danny Ainge feels like my son at the bins. Searching for deals and finding some nice treasures. A noble activity so long as you aren’t ignoring the big picture/responsibilities. Get addicted to the deal and your own projects and you end up being the kid wearing the Affliction t shirt and size 40 name brand jeans that are way too big.

DA is a value hunter which is good but if that is all you are doing without much thought it will lead to having a closet full of THTs that no one wants to buy. And while you have a JC and a sexton at home you are also eyeballing the hell out of that Tyler Herro at the store. Like my son he’s in a spot where he needs get rid of some stuff before he can buy anymore… but that’s no fun so he heads back to the bins.

I have no doubt DA is looking for bigger things but his value hunting hobby has taken too big of a place when he needs to be shaping the roster a bit more. Even if that means selling off a THT for not much, or not rearing a Jordan Clarkson even though the price is really nice, or moving Sexton even though he think Sextons will be making a big comeback next season. I’m not super frustrated with it yet but he needs to do some things in season to make things make sense.

DA stop going to the bins and fill out a few job applications please.
Click to expand...
One of the best posts I've ever read here. Kudos!
 
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