The Knicks are at the Cross Section of Hope and Desperation

[NUMBERICA]

They might make the playoffs... but are an injury away from being a bottom 5 team... getting those picks unprotected over multiple years and I will be at least half are in the lotto. Knicks gonna Knick.

Having Donovan on a big deal and RJ... and Randle plus Robinson maybe? and then having no picks to help grease the wheels will limit how much they can really do in FA. I also don't think Don is going to have the kind of pull they might.

When you bet on downside its like Russian Roulette great because it only takes one bullet for bad **** to happen... so they may get like 4 things right and still end up losing the game. I'm trying to think of the last heavy unprotected pick trade that went bad for the team getting the picks. They have a way of working out.

The last time was probably when the Jazz got two unprotected picks from GS for helping to make them a contender overnight.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The last time was probably when the Jazz got two unprotected picks from GS for helping to make them a contender overnight.

Hood and Hart wasn't a bad haul for our cap space doe! Sucks for the rest of the league though. Also sucks we used the Hart pick in a trade to get legend Tony Bradley.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I also think there could be a serious value-pick at #11. It feels like there is a player drafted late in the lottery that pops in a serious way. Getting a bite at that apple and taking the Knicks to the cleaners with future picks would be the best of all worlds.

I’m probably higher on AJ Griffin than on Banchero FWIW.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I also think there could be a serious value-pick at #11. It feels like there is a player drafted late in the lottery that pops in a serious way. Getting a bite at that apple and taking the Knicks to the cleaners with future picks would be the best of all worlds.

I’m probably higher on AJ Griffin than on Banchero FWIW.

Griffin scares me a bit... you could tell me he became Jaylen Brown light or Tony Snell and I wouldn't be shocked. I think the thing that soured me is he had a knee injury in HS... He's a worthy gamble though... and that is what I like about this draft. I don't like Johnny Davis but even he has a case as being slightly undervalued.

I like Mathurin, Daniels, Sochan, Williams, Sharpe has an outside shot at being there. Eason is interesting... not interested in Washington.

 

[Release the Kraken]

Jeesh!!!

Listened to Andy's pod this morning and been thinking about all the **** with Donovan and the Knicks over the years. I think the Knicks are at a critical moment here and it is time to pounce.

They have a little hope based on what they built during the 2020 season and based on RJ being okay... they were obviously a huge disappointment and based on how picks in the late lotto have gone for them I am not sure they think internal development and whatever prospect they get will work. There is also some desperation to get something done, but have no cap space... also you have national media types straight telling Donovan "don't go there". If they don't get Donovan who are they going to get? They have so many eggs in that basket... the CAA ties... Bryant... ****ing World Wide Wes was with Randle at the first playoff game (which got some of the Jazz brass attention apparently). They want Donovan bad right now... would they want him as bad in a year if they are again mediocre and maybe Dolan is kicking the CAA guys to the curb? What if he has a mediocre or just average year? What if they realize they can't get Donovan and give away some of the assets they could give us in a trade.

How desperate are they? Would they give up all the draft capital for Donovan... say they pick at #11 on draft night and then give us their 23,25,27,29 picks unprotected... as well as the lotto protected Dallas pick they own... six picks for Donovan... look at the Knicks track record and you can guess that half of those become lotto picks at least... one unfortunate injury and you might be looking at a few HIGH picks in that mix. Are they desperate enough to give out pick swaps in between? The thunder got SGA and complete control of the Clips picks for as long as they could at the time. I think its a fair comp (kind of).... but the devil is that OKC bet against the Clips... we are betting against NY... huge difference there. NY has made the playoffs 2 in 10 years... the 10 years before 3 times. Hell even in the Clips case they are giving up a lotto pick this year when they surely thought those early picks would be late firsts.

I just think the Knicks are at a critical point here to take a seriously wild swing and might push all in... we need to be ready to push them that way.

Dude it's New York not the North Pole, you think Thibs, Rose and Mills don't watch the games and see the stat sheets? It's just delusional to think that anybody would offer the "God Father" package for Mitchell. People are also questioning the sanity of the Anthony Davis deal and he was about as legit as it gets in NOLA! And don't think they are going to throw in Quickley, Toppin or Barrett either. We'd be lucky to score Fournier and Noel and two firsts. Maybe marginally more but that's about it. People are quickly discovering that the Spida is the non-venomous variety that gets stepped on and squished when you shine a light on him.

 

[Release the Kraken]

It’s fun to dream until reality sets in LOL!

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Jeesh!!!

Dude it's New York not the North Pole, you think Thibs, Rose and Mills don't watch the games and see the stat sheets? It's just delusional to think that anybody would offer the "God Father" package for Mitchell. People are also questioning the sanity of the Anthony Davis deal and he was about as legit as it gets in NOLA! And don't think they are going to throw in Quickley, Toppin or Barrett either. We'd be lucky to score Fournier and Noel and two firsts. Maybe marginally more but that's about it. People are quickly discovering that the Spida is the non-venomous variety that gets stepped on and squished when you shine a light on him.

Oh sure... those guys are long known for patience and prudence. We are talking about the guys that locked up Randle to a $100M extension a year before they needed to.

The AD trade got Ingram, Ball, Hart, and all teh picks. For a guy that is oft injured and only had 1 year left on his deal... and told every other team that he would only re-sign with the Lakers. Lakers run by a former agent... Knicks are run by a what? That's right a former agent.

Not saying they would give it all up unprotected for sure... but none of the young players they have are super valuable. While you have soured on Donovan the value for a 25 yo all-star who is under contract for 3 more years would be sky high. Hell... look what Vucevic got in a trade last year. I think we could have any young player not named RJ plus 3 of NY's picks and the Dallas pick they own (its top 10 protected)... no questions asked. That would be where the bidding starts imo.

 

[Shad]

I'd trade Donovan for 6 1sts. You'd be stupid not to

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Jeesh!!!

Dude it's New York not the North Pole, you think Thibs, Rose and Mills don't watch the games and see the stat sheets? It's just delusional to think that anybody would offer the "God Father" package for Mitchell. People are also questioning the sanity of the Anthony Davis deal and he was about as legit as it gets in NOLA! And don't think they are going to throw in Quickley, Toppin or Barrett either. We'd be lucky to score Fournier and Noel and two firsts. Maybe marginally more but that's about it. People are quickly discovering that the Spida is the non-venomous variety that gets stepped on and squished when you shine a light on him.

I mean Derrick White went for a pick and a pick swap... pretty sure we could get at least a few picks and some mediocre prospects from NY for a 25 YO multi-time all-star lol.

 

[Avery]

Donovan would make mad bank in promos alone for NY. Advertising opportunities for him and his brand would yield several million more a year for him.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Donovan would make mad bank in promos alone for NY. Advertising opportunities for him and his brand would yield several million more a year for him.

I wonder if his agency and the group that runs the Knicks (his agency) know that and would have some motivation to make it happen. (sarcasm)

 

[Release the Kraken]

Oh sure... those guys are long known for patience and prudence. We are talking about the guys that locked up Randle to a $100M extension a year before they needed to.

The AD trade got Ingram, Ball, Hart, and all teh picks. For a guy that is oft injured and only had 1 year left on his deal... and told every other team that he would only re-sign with the Lakers. Lakers run by a former agent... Knicks are run by a what? That's right a former agent.

Not saying they would give it all up unprotected for sure... but none of the young players they have are super valuable. While you have soured on Donovan the value for a 25 yo all-star who is under contract for 3 more years would be sky high. Hell... look what Vucevic got in a trade last year. I think we could have any young player not named RJ plus 3 of NY's picks and the Dallas pick they own (its top 10 protected)... no questions asked. That would be where the bidding starts imo.

We’ll at least you’ve come down off your 6 LOL!

 

[Release the Kraken]

I mean Derrick White went for a pick and a pick swap... pretty sure we could get at least a few picks and some mediocre prospects from NY for a 25 YO multi-time all-star lol.

Yeah a couple 1st rounders and some mediocre players is exactly what I suggested. I mean if you consider Fournier and Noel mediocre.

 

[sip]

Yeah a couple 1st rounders and some mediocre players is exactly what I suggested. I mean if you consider Fournier and Noel mediocre.

Of course we and every other franchise would consider them mediocre players for Mitchell. Please don't try to argue otherwise and act like those 2 and 2 1sts would be the top offer for Mitchell. We would get much better offers from at least 10 other teams than that crap.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Listened to Andy's pod this morning and been thinking about all the **** with Donovan and the Knicks over the years. I think the Knicks are at a critical moment here and it is time to pounce.

They have a little hope based on what they built during the 2020 season and based on RJ being okay... they were obviously a huge disappointment and based on how picks in the late lotto have gone for them I am not sure they think internal development and whatever prospect they get will work. There is also some desperation to get something done, but have no cap space... also you have national media types straight telling Donovan "don't go there". If they don't get Donovan who are they going to get? They have so many eggs in that basket... the CAA ties... Bryant... ****ing World Wide Wes was with Randle at the first playoff game (which got some of the Jazz brass attention apparently). They want Donovan bad right now... would they want him as bad in a year if they are again mediocre and maybe Dolan is kicking the CAA guys to the curb? What if he has a mediocre or just average year? What if they realize they can't get Donovan and give away some of the assets they could give us in a trade.

How desperate are they? Would they give up all the draft capital for Donovan... say they pick at #11 on draft night and then give us their 23,25,27,29 picks unprotected... as well as the lotto protected Dallas pick they own... six picks for Donovan... look at the Knicks track record and you can guess that half of those become lotto picks at least... one unfortunate injury and you might be looking at a few HIGH picks in that mix. Are they desperate enough to give out pick swaps in between? The thunder got SGA and complete control of the Clips picks for as long as they could at the time. I think its a fair comp (kind of).... but the devil is that OKC bet against the Clips... we are betting against NY... huge difference there. NY has made the playoffs 2 in 10 years... the 10 years before 3 times. Hell even in the Clips case they are giving up a lotto pick this year when they surely thought those early picks would be late firsts.

I just think the Knicks are at a critical point here to take a seriously wild swing and might push all in... we need to be ready to push them that way.

I think the main factor for the Jazz to consider is not how desperate the Knicks or other teams might be to trade for Donovan, but whether Donovan is on a ticking clock before he demands a trade and announces only a small list of teams he'd be willing to sign an extension with. At that point, Donovan would chill his market. He'll say he's willing to go to New York, LA, Miami or Chicago and sign an extension with one of those teams. Then only those teams will be bidding for his services.

Donovan can't do that right now because he doesn't have leverage until he's closer to free agency and he doesn't know what the landscape of the league will look like at that time. An argument can be made that if the Jazz feel they'll have to trade Donovan, it's better to do it sooner rather than later, and do it as a preemptive strike before Donovan tries to dictate his destination and control his market.

 

[sip]

I think the main factor for the Jazz to consider is not how desperate the Knicks or other teams might be to trade for Donovan, but whether Donovan is on a ticking clock before he demands a trade and announces only a small list of teams he'd be willing to sign an extension with. At that point, Donovan would chill his market. He'll say he's willing to go to New York, LA, Miami or Chicago and sign an extension with one of those teams. Then only those teams will be bidding for his services.

Donovan can't do that right now because he doesn't have leverage until he's closer to free agency and he doesn't know what the landscape of the league will look like at that time. An argument can be made that if the Jazz feel they'll have to trade Donovan, it's better to do it sooner rather than later, and do it as a preemptive strike before Donovan tries to dictate his destination and control his market.

With Mitchell locked up for 3 more years the market wouldn't cool one bit if he said he would only sign an extension with certain teams. Teams would just view it as getting 3 years to convince him to stay.

 

[Release the Kraken]

Of course we and every other franchise would consider them mediocre players for Mitchell. Please don't try to argue otherwise and act like those 2 and 2 1sts would be the top offer for Mitchell. We would get much better offers from at least 10 other teams than that crap.

Riiiiiight! S is for sheeple!

 

[Release the Kraken]

Hold on, I hear Thibs is just licking his chops right now, another chance to go all in for a six foot nothing combo guard that can't play defense, LOL!

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Hold on, I hear Thibs is just licking his chops right now, another chance to go all in for a six foot nothing combo guard that can't play defense, LOL!

Thibs ain’t gonna be there much longer… he also had his best run with a score first PG… I think you are really selling Donovan super short. If you think Fournier and two firsts is an offer we’d be lucky to get them you haven’t paid attention.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think the main factor for the Jazz to consider is not how desperate the Knicks or other teams might be to trade for Donovan, but whether Donovan is on a ticking clock before he demands a trade and announces only a small list of teams he'd be willing to sign an extension with. At that point, Donovan would chill his market. He'll say he's willing to go to New York, LA, Miami or Chicago and sign an extension with one of those teams. Then only those teams will be bidding for his services.

Donovan can't do that right now because he doesn't have leverage until he's closer to free agency and he doesn't know what the landscape of the league will look like at that time. An argument can be made that if the Jazz feel they'll have to trade Donovan, it's better to do it sooner rather than later, and do it as a preemptive strike before Donovan tries to dictate his destination and control his market.

Not really that worried about that one… if he had 2 years left on his deal I’d get more concerned.