The Knicks are at the Cross Section of Hope and Desperation

[infection]

We keep talking about hypothetical DM deals.

Anyone remember when the Olympics were rolling into town and they bought all the homeless people bus tickets out of town (or maybe that was just a rumor, but still)? Well, instead of fancy DM trades, Ryan is looking to offload Rudy in exchange for a few used condoms that he’s hoping to parlay into incentive to clear out the homeless for All Star Game 2023 where he can anoint Donovan king of Utah and throw him a parade.

 

[Jingled]

How many first-round picks could we end up with if we just blew the whole thing up? Possibly 3-4 for Donovan, 2-3 for Rudy, maybe Clarkson and Bogey could each get us one. I don't think it's totally crazy to think we could wind up with like 7-9 firsts.

 

[LogGrad98]

With the way the Jazz generally draft in the 1st round, they'll need at least six first round picks to get any value.

Then they can take all the centers.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

How many first-round picks could we end up with if we just blew the whole thing up? Possibly 3-4 for Donovan, 2-3 for Rudy, maybe Clarkson and Bogey could each get us one. I don't think it's totally crazy to think we could wind up with like 7-9 firsts.

A trade I’d consider whether we blow it up or not is Bogey to Brooklyn for Harris and the Philly first they own. Harris has struggled with injury and is a solid reclamation project. That Philly pick can be pushed to 2023 and is unprotected. Bogey gives them a reliable healthy player with an expiring contract… Ben Simmons is unreliable… Kyrie finds new ways to be unreliable… I could see it being quite appealing. If Harris is healthy we don’t take a huge step back… just a small one.

 

[LoPo]

A trade I’d consider whether we blow it up or not is Bogey to Brooklyn for Harris and the Philly first they own. Harris has struggled with injury and is a solid reclamation project. That Philly pick can be pushed to 2023 and is unprotected. Bogey gives them a reliable healthy player with an expiring contract… Ben Simmons is unreliable… Kyrie finds new ways to be unreliable… I could see it being quite appealing. If Harris is healthy we don’t take a huge step back… just a small one.

I'd be game for that. I've always liked Harris. His injury status is a concern and would have to be cleared, but yeah, I like that.

 

[LogGrad98]

We keep talking about hypothetical DM deals.

Anyone remember when the Olympics were rolling into town and they bought all the homeless people bus tickets out of town (or maybe that was just a rumor, but still)? Well, instead of fancy DM trades, Ryan is looking to offload Rudy in exchange for a few used condoms that he’s hoping to parlay into incentive to clear out the homeless for All Star Game 2023 where he can anoint Donovan king of Utah and throw him a parade.

Not a rumor, I went to Omaha!

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Donovan is a player who I think wins a championship before the end of his career with the right pieces around him. He is also super marketable.

We aren't winning a championship with our current team. We broke.

Donovan is our biggest trade assett and teams will give funny money for those types of players.

If we make the Donovan trade then I think we follow the OKC model with the whole team and hit restart right. Bogey, Clarkson, Gobert, Donovan and Conley all fetch 2+ firsts in the right trades. I could see us pickup upwards of 14 first round picks from that group.

Then facilitate cash dumps for another 5 assets and hire the best draft analysts in the world.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

Also, if I were Miami then I would be calling for Donovan. I think he compliments Butler really well. Plus we have D. Wade to help fleece them.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

A trade I’d consider whether we blow it up or not is Bogey to Brooklyn for Harris and the Philly first they own. Harris has struggled with injury and is a solid reclamation project. That Philly pick can be pushed to 2023 and is unprotected. Bogey gives them a reliable healthy player with an expiring contract… Ben Simmons is unreliable… Kyrie finds new ways to be unreliable… I could see it being quite appealing. If Harris is healthy we don’t take a huge step back… just a small one.

I guess in the re-tool scenario we would then use the Philly first to package with Mike or Royce for an upgrade/better fit?

This reminds me of Rummikub where you have the last few tiles and mess up the whole board to make them fit.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I guess in the re-tool scenario we would then use the Philly first to package with Mike or Royce for an upgrade/better fit?

This reminds me of Rummikub where you have the last few tiles and mess up the whole board to make them fit.

Nope… you hold on tight to that pick as a lotto ticket flyer… one thing I’ve learned about philly yes anything weird that can happen will… and by sending out an unprotected pick and bringing in the rule manipulator they have tempted the basketball gods.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Nope… you hold on tight to that pick as a lotto ticket flyer… one thing I’ve learned about philly yes anything weird that can happen will… and by sending out an unprotected pick and bringing in the rule manipulator they have tempted the basketball gods.

I guess I'm not seeing how that addresses any of our needs in a retool situation, not that we shouldn't try to accumulate draft assets where possible.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I guess I'm not seeing how that addresses any of our needs in a retool situation, not that we shouldn't try to accumulate draft assets where possible.

It’s a half measure… just like trading Rudy and keeping Donovan… gives you something for the rebuild without hopefully hurting you in the short term. We likely go a different direction, defensive, at forward.

 

[Rubashov]

Hold on, I hear Thibs is just licking his chops right now, another chance to go all in for a six foot nothing combo guard that can't play defense, LOL!

I like This, maybe cause he reminds me of pork knuckle?

 

[Rubashov]

Listened to Andy's pod this morning and been thinking about all the **** with Donovan and the Knicks over the years. I think the Knicks are at a critical moment here and it is time to pounce.

They have a little hope based on what they built during the 2020 season and based on RJ being okay... they were obviously a huge disappointment and based on how picks in the late lotto have gone for them I am not sure they think internal development and whatever prospect they get will work. There is also some desperation to get something done, but have no cap space... also you have national media types straight telling Donovan "don't go there". If they don't get Donovan who are they going to get? They have so many eggs in that basket... the CAA ties... Bryant... ****ing World Wide Wes was with Randle at the first playoff game (which got some of the Jazz brass attention apparently). They want Donovan bad right now... would they want him as bad in a year if they are again mediocre and maybe Dolan is kicking the CAA guys to the curb? What if he has a mediocre or just average year? What if they realize they can't get Donovan and give away some of the assets they could give us in a trade.

How desperate are they? Would they give up all the draft capital for Donovan... say they pick at #11 on draft night and then give us their 23,25,27,29 picks unprotected... as well as the lotto protected Dallas pick they own... six picks for Donovan... look at the Knicks track record and you can guess that half of those become lotto picks at least... one unfortunate injury and you might be looking at a few HIGH picks in that mix. Are they desperate enough to give out pick swaps in between? The thunder got SGA and complete control of the Clips picks for as long as they could at the time. I think its a fair comp (kind of).... but the devil is that OKC bet against the Clips... we are betting against NY... huge difference there. NY has made the playoffs 2 in 10 years... the 10 years before 3 times. Hell even in the Clips case they are giving up a lotto pick this year when they surely thought those early picks would be late firsts.

I just think the Knicks are at a critical point here to take a seriously wild swing and might push all in... we need to be ready to push them that way.

I like it, betting on the knicks being **** is like betting on water being wet and anything unprotected always has a sexy little sheen on it. (Probably an STD)

I almost feel sorry for Donovan, you know, careful what you wish for and all that.

Excellent idea HH.

 

[Rubashov]

@Handlogten's Heros

I'm not opposed to the idea of Mitchell to NY, but I think it comes down to two major factors:

#1 - Don has to want out

#2 - NY would have to get in the top 4 this year

NY lacks a great player to send back so they would have to have a big pick.

MY GOOD GOD MAN!!!! If you came home and found Donovan Mitchell in bed with your wife, which side of the bed would you get in on????

 

[LogGrad98]

Donovan is a player who I think wins a championship before the end of his career with the right pieces around him. He is also super marketable.

We aren't winning a championship with our current team. We broke.

Donovan is our biggest trade assett and teams will give funny money for those types of players.

If we make the Donovan trade then I think we follow the OKC model with the whole team and hit restart right. Bogey, Clarkson, Gobert, Donovan and Conley all fetch 2+ firsts in the right trades. I could see us pickup upwards of 14 first round picks from that group.

Then facilitate cash dumps for another 5 assets and hire the best draft analysts in the world.

idk if he ever wins the whole enchilada. As has been discussed here, offensively challenged centers haven't been the centerpiece of championship teams. Likewise not many high-volume scorers that refused to play any defense at all have lead their teams to championships either. The vast majority of championship teams have strong 2-way centerpiece players, who take pride in shutting people down almost as much as scoring in bunches. Mitchell might go the AI route and get a finals appearance, but I have a hard time seeing him be the main cog in a championship team, especially the way he let Brunson et al tea-bag all over him.

 

[Rubashov]

idk if he ever wins the whole enchilada. As has been discussed here, offensively challenged centers haven't been the centerpiece of championship teams. Likewise not many high-volume scorers that refused to play any defense at all have lead their teams to championships either. The vast majority of championship teams have strong 2-way centerpiece players, who take pride in shutting people down almost as much as scoring in bunches. Mitchell might go the AI route and get a finals appearance, but I have a hard time seeing him be the main cog in a championship team, especially the way he let Brunson et al tea-bag all over him.

Dude the ****ing Clippers series.OH MY ****ING GOD!! Can somebody not named Rudy play some defence???

 

[infection]

Where the hell is the general trade thread? Anyway, since we're talking about the Knicks, what about Mike for Fournier straight up, maybe they send some draft compensation? Contract length is effectively the same with Fournier having a team option on the last year, and this move would save us north of $4M next year, and if you'll recall, we traded Ingles for a net savings of $3M so that we could save $11M or whatever with tax. Another alternative is to move Mike, Gay, and NAW to NY for Fournier and Kemba. That deal would save us probably more than $5M in salary alone, plus converting the last two years of Rudy Gay into an expiring in Kemba. I know that nobody would want to do these moves now because it would unload some of the potential salary workings of a Donovan-to-NY deal, but we all know the FO isn't looking to move Donovan, but we do know they are looking to "re-tool" and also save money, though definitely not in that order.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Where the hell is the general trade thread? Anyway, since we're talking about the Knicks, what about Mike for Fournier straight up, maybe they send some draft compensation? Contract length is effectively the same with Fournier having a team option on the last year, and this move would save us north of $4M next year, and if you'll recall, we traded Ingles for a net savings of $3M so that we could save $11M or whatever with tax. Another alternative is to move Mike, Gay, and NAW to NY for Fournier and Kemba. That deal would save us probably more than $5M in salary alone, plus converting the last two years of Rudy Gay into an expiring in Kemba. I know that nobody would want to do these moves now because it would unload some of the potential salary workings of a Donovan-to-NY deal, but we all know the FO isn't looking to move Donovan, but we do know they are looking to "re-tool" and also save money, though definitely not in that order.

Three team deal Conley to Washington.... KCP and Gay to NY.... we get Fournier and Deni Avidja. There are second rounders and stuff sprinkled in as needed.

 

[infection]

Three team deal Conley to Washington.... KCP and Gay to NY.... we get Fournier and Deni Avidja. There are second rounders and stuff sprinkled in as needed.

I think realistically we’re looking at a deal like this where we can rebalance a bit but also save money, and there’s no drastic change. It’d be great if they paired that with a coaching change but it sounds like they won’t do whatever. Let’s save some money, I guess.