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The *OFFICIAL* Russia Is About To Invade Ukraine Thread

Al-O-Meter said:
Unfortunately I doubt it. This invasion has cost Russia dearly. Any money made by the spike in oil prices has been consumed hundreds of times over with the collapse of the Ruble and divestment by nearly everyone on the globe. Their standing in the world has cratered as even formerly staunch Russian allies are now turning their backs. Their feared military has been exposed as they seem to have no answer for the Bayraktar TB2 drones which are too slow to be engaged by the Russian air superiority jets.

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For all that cost in money, standing, and prestige, Russia has nothing to show for it. If Russia withdraws now it will cement that into history. I really want to be wrong. I really, REALLY want to be wrong but I fear things are about to get very ugly and I do not entirely discount the idea of a nuke being used before this is over.
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hmmm. Never heard of these before. Putin, maybe. I don't know what they have done. I have believed things aren't going well for Putin, sonsidering Germany. If so, I think China may be re-thinking some things.

That also increases, if so, nukes.
 
leftyjace said:
Time to bench the morons.

www.cnn.com

Ukraine presents Republican leaders with a crucial choice | CNN

Charlie Dent writes that while Russian President Valdimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine has unified much of the world, it has further splintered the GOP. Traditional Republicans like Sen. Mitt Romney -- and Dent himself -- view global engagement positively, while Trump and MAGA Republicans take a...
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
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There are almost no republicans who ever favored Putin. Most of the stuff I read that explained Putin in any rational manner was from people who have followed US-Russian relations for decades, and most of those were old-line democrats, pre-Clinton lets say.

Trump and his supporters will have no problem laying the war blame on Biden and supporting Ukraine. Levin and Hannity have been doing this all along. Biden jjust still looks bad.
 
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LogGrad98 said:
I don't know what response there would be if Putin launched any nukes. If he launched directly at the US we would retaliate, but I am not sure it would be with Nukes. We still understand the doctrine of mutually assured destruction, and our military is so massively strong that we could mete out nearly the same devastation without bringing on nuclear winter directly, and most of it remotely. But I think if he launched anything at the Ukraine we might see...nothing. Not sure we would intervene militarily in that circumstance either. I am feeling us being much more passive in this conflict. Not sure if that is good or bad.
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Obama and Biden, in my opinion, are US deconstructionists more than Ukraine or EU or NATO supporters. Letting Russia and China pick up scraps around their fringes is probably in their play book for us. I am immensely surprised that Ukraine's comedian didn't just negotiate a settlement that partitioned off the Donetsk and Luhansk. And that he has half the spunk he's shown already.

Knowing nothing, really, beyond what I can find on the webz and a little history *(real history), I imagine either we go in and help finish Putin or he lives and remembers a lot of stuff. And recovers and improves his stuff.
 
Putin probably has more of a base in Russia than the West has for Biden or Hillary, maybe even Obama. UK has no popular leadership. EU has no leadership.

I think Xi is about 10X the trouble Putin is, and I don't think Taiwan or even Japan has the spunk Zelensky has.

I think the Putin hate some bring in here is not even matched by his most avid foes inside Russia. The Communist Party of Russia is his most significant inside opposition, and even they have to pretend to love Russia

The Communist remnants around the world generally don't believe in Marx anymore. They live and thrive mostly on bald resentment against the US/UK. We don't give them enough support to make it profitable to pretend to like us, and China and Russia don't even argue politics with them. They're just there to help and build.

Some conservatives believe Communism is growing and about to swallow us up whole hog. I still see it as a ruse, and dependent on megabuck manipulators. But I never invest in my opinions, I live and learn.
 
leftyjace said:
Saw there was a response from an ignored member.
Nope, not taking that bait.
I will leave that on ignore, thank you very much. Don't need the headache.
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You're welcome.

As for nukes, if Putin used them on Ukraine (they are peacekeepers after all), I'm fairly certain you would see NATO lay waste to every military facility (communications, airfields, warehouse/storage, training facility, etc.) in Russia as well as convoys in Ukraine be obliterated. Not like we don't know where they are anyway.

And Russia doesn't need to use a nuke - they can target facilities just fine with what they have in their arsenal.
 
Avery said:
You're welcome.

As for nukes, if Putin used them on Ukraine (they are peacekeepers after all), I'm fairly certain you would see NATO lay waste to every military facility (communications, airfields, warehouse/storage, training facility, etc.) in Russia as well as convoys in Ukraine be obliterated. Not like we don't know where they are anyway.

And Russia doesn't need to use a nuke - they can target facilities just fine with what they have in their arsenal.
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You are attributing a lot of power to NATO. That is essentially saying that America will do all that, as we represent the lion's share of military power in the organization, and it isn't particularly close. I don't think we would get involved at that level, tbh.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
Unfortunately I doubt it. This invasion has cost Russia dearly. Any money made by the spike in oil prices has been consumed hundreds of times over with the collapse of the Ruble and divestment by nearly everyone on the globe. Their standing in the world has cratered as even formerly staunch Russian allies are now turning their backs. Their feared military has been exposed as they seem to have no answer for the Bayraktar TB2 drones which are too slow to be engaged by the Russian air superiority jets.

281429.jpg


For all that cost in money, standing, and prestige, Russia has nothing to show for it. If Russia withdraws now it will cement that into history. I really want to be wrong. I really, REALLY want to be wrong but I fear things are about to get very ugly and I do not entirely discount the idea of a nuke being used before this is over.
Click to expand...
I found a lot on these drones in the webz. They've been used in conflicts with Russia before. I am sure Putin knew about them.

Here is an article about them from before the invasion.

www.forbes.com

Ukraine Reportedly Has 20 TB-2 Drones. They Might Not Matter In A Wider War With Russia.

We knew Ukraine had Turkish-made drones, each capable of finding and destroying enemy armored vehicles without exposing crews to enemy fire. We didn’t know many of the propeller-driven Bayraktar TB-2s Kiev managed to acquire as a powerful Russian army massed along the border with Ukraine.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

20 known in Ukraine's possession then, with many more on order and permission to make them in JUkraine. Pretty sure Russia forces were looking for them and trying to destroy them and if possible any manufacturing sites.

Pretty sure Russia will be tracking traffic in weapons as well as they can.

hmmm.......only two of the twenty have been used, maybe no more left???

Sorry peeps. A lot of folks don't want to get involved in anything more than cheerleading. This may have been a leading reason Russia didn't wait to negotiate and that Zelensky didn't negotiate. Probably a miscalculation for both of them. Probably means time is the leading consideration on the Russian side. Gotta get out soon.
 
What we're seeing here is additional proof in what I call the U.S. military's most underrated superpower... logistics.

Russia is struggling to get the right forces to the right positions with the right supplies to leverage its significant advantage in both quantity and firepower. This is something the U.S. military has shown extraordinary ability in going all the way back to the Persian Gulf War in the 90s, but refined and perfected so much that in the war in Iraq, during the initial offensive, the U.S. frequently told our allies to kindly just stay out of the way because they couldn't keep up with our advancement, our battlefield picture (the knowledge of where all our stuff was and where support and supplies needed to be before they were needed), and our ability to put forces in the right places as soon as they needed to be there for the best effectiveness.

I think the U.S. has put more thought and effort into logistics than anyone else in the world by an even bigger margin than we outspend them on our military hardware.
 
Zelensky is asking for NATO or US air support. Here's a bit from Yahoo, a democrat rejecting that idea:

“There’s been a lot of loose talk from smart people about ‘close air support’ and ‘no fly zones’ for Ukraine,” Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., tweeted. “Let’s just be clear what that is — the U.S. and Russia at war. It’s a bad idea and Congress would never authorize it.
 
Gameface said:
What we're seeing here is additional proof in what I call the U.S. military's most underrated superpower... logistics.

Russia is struggling to get the right forces to the right positions with the right supplies to leverage its significant advantage in both quantity and firepower. This is something the U.S. military has shown extraordinary ability in going all the way back to the Persian Gulf War in the 90s, but refined and perfected so much that in the war in Iraq, during the initial offensive, the U.S. frequently told our allies to kindly just stay out of the way because they couldn't keep up with our advancement, our battlefield picture (the knowledge of where all our stuff was and where support and supplies needed to be before they were needed), and our ability to put forces in the right places as soon as they needed to be there for the best effectiveness.

I think the U.S. has put more thought and effort into logistics than anyone else in the world by an even bigger margin than we outspend them on our military hardware.
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I agree with every word of this.
 
Gameface said:
What we're seeing here is additional proof in what I call the U.S. military's most underrated superpower... logistics.

Russia is struggling to get the right forces to the right positions with the right supplies to leverage its significant advantage in both quantity and firepower. This is something the U.S. military has shown extraordinary ability in going all the way back to the Persian Gulf War in the 90s, but refined and perfected so much that in the war in Iraq, during the initial offensive, the U.S. frequently told our allies to kindly just stay out of the way because they couldn't keep up with our advancement, our battlefield picture (the knowledge of where all our stuff was and where support and supplies needed to be before they were needed), and our ability to put forces in the right places as soon as they needed to be there for the best effectiveness.

I think the U.S. has put more thought and effort into logistics than anyone else in the world by an even bigger margin than we outspend them on our military hardware.
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you shouldn't cheer the ignore crowd if you won't join them...... LOL

But this is a reasonable remark on your part. On the other hand, I think Putin has made a mistake about how much he needs to move. So far this looks more like a war designed to minimize casualties among civilians. complaints about the Ukranians putting small arms in inexperienced civilian hands, complaints about Ukranian soldiers hiding behind civilians, taking up seige positions around cities. However you debate it out, there has not been a war designed against civilians here. Well, what the hell do I really know. I'm not a partisan. I didn't want this war, I gainj nothing from it. Putin's blunder here.

Reminds me of Utah's history and how a Pres. Johnson (1850s) sent troops to occupy Utah. No I wasn't there then. I read stuff.

Putin must decide soon whether to defend his forces with less civil strategy or just pick a few places to sit, or get out. If Putin turns tail, Zelensky will be in the EU and NATO next week. Putin might not survive politically. But Russia could still by cold hard reason, become a tougher foe.
 
Beyond belief, a lot of people are more outraged by Russia than our open borders politics, which contributes to significant human trafficking. "Slavery" could be a word for that. That set of ideas can only be embraced by folks who are gung ho for the Cloward/Piven stragey and who cheer for the end of this republic as an impediment to global fascism.

That said, I've been going around reading all kinds of stuff, and today the CFR magazine "Foreign Affairs", has some articles about Germany's reversal on relations with Russia, amid vows to become energy independent. Greenie delusions, I think. Then there are some articles on Russian internal affairs, where one article lays out a perceived major shift inside Russian politics. Bemoaning a Russian military-industrial complex and new technology, it lays blame for the Ukranian invasion squarely on the military, which is seen by this article as significantly popular in its own rights within Russia. Kremlin power structure used to be KGB/FSB but now the oligarchs and military commanders have a share. Ukraine defeat could go hard on that new element and just set Putin back up even stronger.

There's also an article on how our strategy has moved on in regards to containment, thrilling the reader with the wonders of financial manipulations. Don't count on it. They'll be more of free economy than we are.
 
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babe said:
Beyond belief, a lot of people are more outraged by Russia than our open borders politics, which contributes to significant human trafficking. "Slavery" could be a word for that. That set of ideas can only be embraced by folks who are gung ho for the Cloward/Piven stragey and who cheer for the end of this republic as an impediment to global fascism.

That said, I've been going around reading all kinds of stuff, and today the CFR magazine "Foreign Affairs", has some articles about Germany's reversal on relations with Russia, amid vows to become energy independent. Greenie delusions, I think. Then there are some articles on Russian internal affairs, where one article lays out a perceived major shift inside Russian politics. Bemoaning a Russian military-industrial complex and new technology, it lays blame for the Ukranian invasion squarely on the military, which is seen by this article as significantly popular in its own rights within Russia. Kremlin power structure used to be KGB/FSB but now the oligarchs and military commanders have a share. Ukraine defeat could go hard on that new element and just set Putin back up even stronger.

There's also an article on how our strategy has moved on in regards to containment, thrilling the reader with the wonders of financial manipulations. Don't count on it. They'll be more of free economy than we are.
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Immigration/asylum seeking is slavery?

And why should I be more outraged at our immigration policy than Russia threatening nuclear war, invading another country, and bombing kindergartens? I would certainly Hope everyone would be more upset with what’s happening in Eastern Europe. Thousands are being needlessly slaughtered, millions of lives are being disrupted, the entire liberal order is being rocked, and nuclear war is an existential threat to all of us.

A bloody war in Eastern Europe that has the potential of being a world war involving nukes is more important than you being angry over a few Latin Americans coming here to work you ****ing dotard
 
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