Oh **** the Moskva? It translates to Moscow.
Damn, that like the USS Enterprise or the John Paul Jones getting sunk.
That's the most historic modern Russian ship name ever.
The *OFFICIAL* Russia Is About To Invade Ukraine Thread
- Thread starter Gameface
- Start date
Oh **** the Moskva? It translates to Moscow.
Damn, that like the USS Enterprise or the John Paul Jones getting sunk.
That's the most historic modern Russian ship name ever.
I was only ever on one Navy ship and that was CVN 68 the USS Nimitz. However, defensive shipboard weapon systems is 100% of what I did in the Navy. The same systems I worked on are on all combat ships in the Navy. I worked on Phalanx CIWS (Close-in Weapon System), RAM (Rolling Airframe Missile) and indirectly on Evolved NATO Sea Sparrow. Links follow.
Phalanx CIWS
Phalanx CIWS - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
RAM
RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile - Wikipedia
Evolved NATO Sea Sparrow
RIM-162 ESSM - Wikipedia
I was much younger then and I honestly ached for someone to try to fire a missile at my ship so that we could shoot it down and be heroes. I realize now how dumb that was, regardless, I had an extreme amount of confidence in myself and the people I worked with. Our division had just over 20 people in it but my work center, which was responsible for the RAM systems, had 6-8 people at any given time. I was the work center supervisor, or the POIC (petty officer in charge) of the RAM work center for most of my time on the ship. Before I was the POIC my battle station was at the RAM console in CIC (Combat Information Center) which meant I was the guy that would push the "fire" button to engage a target that was threatening my ship.
In my humble opinion you would have to fire either a concentrated stream raid of guided missiles (look stream raid up) or a couple of hypersonic missiles in order to hit my ship. I was directly involved in testing our defensive capability against hypersonic missiles and I hope we have improved our ability to counter them. As it stands I think the primary defensive measure is distance.
A few missiles fired at my ship, good luck some other time, that **** isn't going to work.
Keep in mind also that I worked on point defense weapon systems. The cruisers and destroyers have AEGIS systems and standard missiles that can engage MUCH further out than the stuff I worked on. Also consider that Navy aircraft is the actual first line of defense for a Navy strike group. So you would have had to peel the onion back pretty far before I would have been needed.
The U.S. Navy isn't a joke. There aren't 5 other navies combined that could even think about messing with the U.S. Navy and at least two of those are very close allies, and they are 2 and 3 on the list.
Aren't Nimitz and Enterprise being scrapped? Proper shame.
lauriandres
Well-Known Member
To add what Gameface said and what i gathered from Twitter:
1. Moskva was designed for offense, not defense.
2. It basically had only one detection radar so was able to track only ONE potential flying/floating (theoretical) attacker at one time.
3. Ukraine used one drone as a bait and then attacked with missiles.
4. Moskva was FULL of explosive stuff.
5. And while on paper that ship might have been in good condition - the reality in Russia is what it is. Lots of brutal might, because the value of human life is kind of low.
To Gameface,
While you worked in Navy - was it theoretically easy or difficult to silently steal military stuff? For example, little bit of ammo one day, then next week some food rations, maybe some gallons of fuel or other chemicals and then sell later on a more or less regular or black market?
I guess and i hope, that it was difficult? I.e at least on harbour you had to pass some detectors etc.
Of course, feel free to be as accurate as you want with your answers ;-).
1. Moskva was designed for offense, not defense.
2. It basically had only one detection radar so was able to track only ONE potential flying/floating (theoretical) attacker at one time.
3. Ukraine used one drone as a bait and then attacked with missiles.
4. Moskva was FULL of explosive stuff.
5. And while on paper that ship might have been in good condition - the reality in Russia is what it is. Lots of brutal might, because the value of human life is kind of low.
To Gameface,
While you worked in Navy - was it theoretically easy or difficult to silently steal military stuff? For example, little bit of ammo one day, then next week some food rations, maybe some gallons of fuel or other chemicals and then sell later on a more or less regular or black market?
I guess and i hope, that it was difficult? I.e at least on harbour you had to pass some detectors etc.
Of course, feel free to be as accurate as you want with your answers ;-).
I honestly have no idea if it would have been easy to steal things. Never crossed my mind.
That's some antiquated ****. But I'm a bit confused. Search radar are the ones that spin in a circle and look all around for anything and everything. Fire Control radar points directly at a target and provides very specific positioning info to the Fire Control computer which then determines an intercept point, AKA the Fire Control Solution, and indicates such to the Fire Control tech who then tells the Tactical Action Officer that they have "Birds Affirmed" and he then gives permission to fire or not. When a fire control radar system has a target that what is commonly referred to as being "locked on" or "missile lock."
On AEGIS ships they use a unique phased array radar system that can provide Fire Control quality radar info for well over 100 targets at a time. They can also fire many missiles simultaneously at multiple targets at a time. One AEGIS can even use the radar info from another friendly AEGIS to fire missiles or request to use their missiles to fire on a target they've identified.
It's ridiculous how much better the U.S. Navy is compared to its rivals.
What the actual ****? You never even thought about stealing? You sicken me. ****ing sailors man, pack of wimps.
In reality what can he really steal off an aircraft carrier? Its not like you can sick an F-14 in your suitcase. I seriously doubt they're eating caviar and drinking Moet on carriers (well maybe the officers) what's he gonna steal scrabbled eggs and bacon from the mess? That said if you were a grunt marching around Afghanistan, you might be motivated to to pick up a brick of heroin from some village you just shot up. Portable, valuable and easy to sell when you get home.
Didn't mean to make you mad. I thought you would likely view my remarks as complimentary. You rarely expound at great length on the stuff you bring in here, just to say that Trump is bad and Americans are fascists or whatever. Your posts never involve a critical discussion of the material. As an activist with a cause, it's not your part to throw shade on your talking points or sources.
Everyone thinks they do their own thinking. I think it's worthwhile questioning even what I'm thinking.
My analysis of Ukrainian internal society, ethnic and political groupings etc is probably in need of a lot more information. Let's leave it at the reports so far that I've linked, unless you have something better to offer. I refer to the report that in the recent elections in Ukraine, which I only can evaluate in terms of the reports I have, which I linked above, there has been pretty poor voter turnout, something less than 40%. Of that vote, Zelensky got 36% then his people only got 31% in the last election. The Communist parties were outlawed back in 2015. Areas where they were strong were the weakest in reported voting numbers. I think maybe 30%, and maybe most of them ethnic Russians in the east. It appears that voting, for some, might seem scary or something. Maybe there is a view that the elections are just dog and pony shows anyway. It sounds to me like other than the OPFL and Zelensky's party, there's only a few "oligarchic parties" centered on financial or personality figures which mean voters voting for their financial interests, their company or boss.
But anyway, I say all that adds up to Zelensky getting just over 10% of Ukrainians voting for him, and that was slipping. He "won" because he made deals with the corrupt oligarchs in the election whose delegates supported him after the election.
Meanwhile, the good ol' USA is getting a reputation around the world for picking great losers, and losing wars for them.
I consider anyone who has to ignore me in the vain and foolish effort to compose their own sanity very welcome to do that. Otherwise, it would just be the inability to form competent responses with factual information to debunk my nonsense.
A few try to do that, and sometimes I appreciate the information because there was something I just didn't know.
I got some second-hand information from, well, maybe I should say third-hand information, from a former US official.
Unconfirmed.
The Moskva rolled and sank. Allegedly. A drone with about enough firepower to waste 5 tanks or armored vehicles, and the Moskva had to turn to fire at it and didn't know there were incoming missiles.
Game's comments appear to me to be well-informed on this subject.
I'll be looking for a satellite pic from Russian sources showing it in port for repairs or floating before I believe otherwise.
If Russia proves this was a NATO weapon or fired and controlled by NATO forces, it will be reported to the UN for sure. It will add a lot of weight to the charge that this is a US proxy war. A lot of NATO countries will object to this kind of action as endangering their own people. A whole shipload of third world countries will consider Biden a loose cannon. Well, along with Liz Cheney, a nutjob.
Unconfirmed.
The Moskva rolled and sank. Allegedly. A drone with about enough firepower to waste 5 tanks or armored vehicles, and the Moskva had to turn to fire at it and didn't know there were incoming missiles.
Game's comments appear to me to be well-informed on this subject.
I'll be looking for a satellite pic from Russian sources showing it in port for repairs or floating before I believe otherwise.
If Russia proves this was a NATO weapon or fired and controlled by NATO forces, it will be reported to the UN for sure. It will add a lot of weight to the charge that this is a US proxy war. A lot of NATO countries will object to this kind of action as endangering their own people. A whole shipload of third world countries will consider Biden a loose cannon. Well, along with Liz Cheney, a nutjob.
Avery
Well-Known Member
Pretty much every piece of equipment Ukraine is using was probably supplied by a NATO member, we're just not pulling the trigger or pushing the button.
I'm unclear on why Liz Cheney is even name-checked here - she's the proverbial boogeywoman to many on the right simply for not bending the knee, but I don't see why that makes her a nutjob. I could think of a smorgasbord of other politicians on both sides that are true nutjobs vs. her.
MVP
Well-Known Member
Well your sources are on par with what I mentioned and they are wrong. Do you know Russian language? I do. Watch this video quickly and even if you do not understand, tell me what symbol this former Russian vice minister Rogozin is using at the end of his speech?
Last edited:
You might as well have based it on the price of tea in China.
Zelensky didn't ban every opposition party, just a very small sub-group of them, all with pro-Russia sympathies. You couldn't bother to find out the truth about this, spreading someone's lies instead. Things like this are why so few people take you seriously.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
Hmmmm.... A smorgasbord of politicians. Kind of grim but would you have a vegan option at your smorgasbord of politicians?
*dear NSA, Secret Service, etc., it is a joke. I'm playing with words and don't actually want to eat any of our elected representatives.
It's quite possible Majorie Taylor Greene and Madison Cawthorn are Russian plants.
Hmmmm.... A smorgasbord of politicians. Kind of grim but would you have a vegan option at your smorgasbord of politicians?
Putin has placed several top FSB (his intelligence agency) officials in prison.
There is a rumor that they were in charge of developing pro-Russian militia units in Ukraine and that there was significant money being sent their way to fund these operations. Putin believed that he had several units ready to go upon the arrival of Russian troops, but that was not the case. These FSB officials were just pocketing the money and telling Putin everything was going fantastic. This explains a few things that Russia did in the initial days of the invasion that otherwise make no sense and failed measurably. For instance he air-dropped a bunch of paratroopers deep inside Ukraine and the missions was largely a failure. It is very possible that Putin believed that there was a significant pro-Russian militia unit there which had already laid the groundwork for those paratroopers and that they would emerge once the Russians arrived and fight along side them to gain a significant foothold in the area.
I mean I guess if you run a kleptocracy you should expect the people involved to be kleptos.
There is a rumor that they were in charge of developing pro-Russian militia units in Ukraine and that there was significant money being sent their way to fund these operations. Putin believed that he had several units ready to go upon the arrival of Russian troops, but that was not the case. These FSB officials were just pocketing the money and telling Putin everything was going fantastic. This explains a few things that Russia did in the initial days of the invasion that otherwise make no sense and failed measurably. For instance he air-dropped a bunch of paratroopers deep inside Ukraine and the missions was largely a failure. It is very possible that Putin believed that there was a significant pro-Russian militia unit there which had already laid the groundwork for those paratroopers and that they would emerge once the Russians arrived and fight along side them to gain a significant foothold in the area.
I mean I guess if you run a kleptocracy you should expect the people involved to be kleptos.
We have some,including notably RINOs generally, that havea mindset for militarism. Liz Cheney is an extreme example. Mark Levin is pretty wild on that issue, too, apparently. Rand Paul not so much.
What I was intending to portray is the deliberate set up for this war, on our part, going back as far as 2005. Selling weapons, providing information and advising strategies specific to the program. Didn't help with negotiations that would have ended it. But this is just a start for what some on "our side" have on the agenda.
Russia allegedly has soldiers who went into Ukraine and posed, falsely, as Ukranians. Western people, individually, have joined both sides. But intelligence or military personnel in Ukraine with their grimy little fingers on buttons and triggers is what I intended to alledge above, and it is the fact.
This is a prozy war. Our intent has been and will be to take out Putin, do a regime change, and control resources, generally taking stuff out of the market and pushing a Western-directed globalist socialism. China has some ideas of just bolting and doing it all Xi's way China is pretending to be objective and reasonable, but I believe they are going to do their own push. Formosa, ther Asian Rim countries.
I think it is likely that China has better naval equipment than Russia, and might not just be sitting ducks..
No way to describe or categorize all the megalomaniacs on this stage.
We didn't need to do this.
You're doing a great broken record with stubborn ignorant lies.
Yah, it wasn't Zelensky that banned the commies who were pretty significant before 2014. A lot of ethnic Russians stopped voting after that. Go look at the population stats and the vote tallies. and do the math.
PS I found some numbers who they do contradict what I had read before.
Communist successors to the USSR Communist community have scored in the 30% to 40% area in the past. Successor parties sprang up then the old party was banned, then the successors have been banned.
The reports have been confusing to me because of the system, a two=round process. Participation of around 60% is claimed, but that is probably suspect due to widespread shenanigans. I found one report that claimed Zelensky is a stooge for an oligarch in Ukraine. LOL. Ukraine has to be the worst country in the world for corrupt politcians. No wonder Biden and Hunter have hauled in boatloads of moolah.
44 million people. 36 million claimed registered voters. 62% voter turnout claimed. https://www.electionguide.org/countries/id/223/
Age profile...... 8 million (only) under 18. The claimed registration rate is approximately 100%. Unbelievable.
It's a lot easier to print and fill out ballots than to get people to walk in and vote. I am going to try to find out why one source claimed only a 36% voter turnout. I might have to believe more than 11% of real people voted for Zelensky, but I'll study it out a bit more first.
Last edited:
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Amen
I can understand this level of Russian. I have wondered about the Wagner group, just what sort of people they are. But it still seems to me that Putin is a Russian nationalist but not a big fan of Hitler. I am sure that what he wants is people who answer to him rather than to the Western authorities. I believe he has made business privilege in Russia dependent upon loyallty to Russia. Jon Huntsman got kicked out in their petroleum business in the 1990s
Your logic here is equivalent to calling Biden a Nazi because there's a video of some Nazis in America, in the north woods of Idaho or somewhere.