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The *OFFICIAL* Russia Is About To Invade Ukraine Thread

If Ukraine had acted rationally and ethically then Putin wouldn't be the corrupt murdering war criminal liar that he is and always has been? Not buying that for a second.

Putin said it all in his own words. He considers Ukraine not just part of the old Soviet Union, he considers Ukraine inextricably part of Russia. He's getting on in years and there are some reports that he's been seeing cancer doctors. He wants Ukraine "rejoining" Russia to be his legacy. There's no treaty agreement or NATO encroachment to blame for his actions. He will manufacture rationalizations, sure, but he doesn't care about any of that. He's looking for excuses to do the thing he's always wanted to do, which is to bring Ukraine back into Russia.

The things you've pointed to that Zelenskyy has done are irrelevant to the fact that Russia invaded a peaceful neighbor in a war of choice and a war of conquest and a war littered with unnecessary civilian deaths that absolutely constitute war crimes. Why you want to deflect blame from Russia is straight up bizarre. What you're doing is like when someone rapes and kills a young woman and some dude wants to say, "Yeah but did you see the kind of clothes she wore and did you know she had sex with more than one person in the last year? Clearly the raping murderer wouldn't have done it otherwise. I don't think he's such a bad guy really, all things considered."

It's ****ing gross, babe.
You're pretty hopeless, actually. There are books about the documented agreements and the things we've done that broke those agreements. Sure, we deny that we have done any wrong. I think I can safely assert that anything published by Yale Press or on the CFR reading list is not Russian propaganda. Many of the facts are here, essentially by our own admission:

 
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You're pretty hopeless, actually. There are books about the documented agreements and the things we've done that broke those agreements. Sure, we deny that we have done any wrong. I think I can safely assert that anything published by Yale Press or on the CFR reading list is not Russian propaganda. Many of the facts are here, essentially by our own admission:

Yeah, gives Putin and his agents, like you apparently, justification for this.

How's it feel being a useful idiot?
 
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Yeah, gives Putin and his agents, like you apparently, justification for this.

How's it feel being a useful idiot?


According to informed sources more sympathetic to me, the Brookings Institution and some other honcho gristmills have been pushing our policy to expand NATO for over a decade. Our CIA, people like former ambassador John Brennan are active in this enterprise. People like Utah's Jon Huntsman Jr and Liz Cheney, and the Bush dynasty. But without a doubt George Soros and the Kock Bros even.


I haven't made a definite conclusion about "why", but control over oil resources is one highly likely consideration. I can't explain why Biden gave up the huvge airbase in Afghanistan. Trump would have held it and made it something like Guantanmo in Cuba, but it is a strategic loss without parallel. Now Putin is cutting deals with India for oil. He has fixed the ruble to gold, making it a "gold standard" currency. He has little debt, comparatively speaking. Building pipelines to China.

Ukranian forces include and in fact are run by ideological NAZI people who believe Hitler should have won WWII. Racists, and all that. They have been tough fighters in the donbas, and have done 3everything we accuse Putin of doing. Again, I don't know so much except what I can read and evaluate from available sources, but it has been going on since the overthrow of the elecdted, pro-Russian Ukranian president in the 2014 coup.

Putin does not run as a "communist" though undoubtedly he is influenced by that political schema. He is more of a Russian nationalist, and I believe he is no patsy, and capabl3e of ruthless suppression of opponents. His is not really so different from other dictators or nominal strongman governance all over the world, which we give foreign aid to. Xi is an overt Han racist who violates human rights and even runs labor camps. Some say he up his opponents and sells body parts for transplant.

You get off balance with your comments quite often, and I believe it comes from idiological or idealist beliefs which are useful in the political games. I try to set myself apart from unthinking advocacy in politics. My basic focus is human rights and reducing our unnecessary wars. I favor competition over cartel or industrial giants exercising monopolistic control of commerce in any respect. Putin has excluded many western business interests because he is trying to maintain his own control of Russian economics. He has become somewhat anti-globalist or anti-Western financial and industrial "globalist" at least.

There's a lot more to all this, I won't bother to go on just now.

But why not stop and think about it some instead of being your usual sort of useful idiot for political causes you support.
 
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“A Le Pen victory, once unthinkable, would present the European Union with its biggest crisis since Brexit, potentially triggering a slow death rattle for the constellation of countries and completely upending a continent. And in the short term, it would deeply shake the pro-Ukraine coalition that extends from Warsaw to Washington.”
 

“A Le Pen victory, once unthinkable, would present the European Union with its biggest crisis since Brexit, potentially triggering a slow death rattle for the constellation of countries and completely upending a continent. And in the short term, it would deeply shake the pro-Ukraine coalition that extends from Warsaw to Washington.”
It's almost fun to see all the hobgoblins in the "progressive" mind. You see extremists everywhere. Everyone who won't just roll over and comply. Zelensky has outlawed political parties he fears might be pro-Russian even after the horrid invasion, a spectrum of small parties dotting the whole political panopoly of Ukraine, but which add up to more than half the population.

This French "right wing extremist" is focused on the price of food, heat, and essential stuff. She is about as extreme as the average mom.

But whoa....... We Can't tolerate that.

The truth is that a lot of people still just think for themselves. Most people.

Maybe you should just learn to live with that fact.
 
Lol poor innocent sweet Russia.

Anti-Russia foaming at the mouth dude.

I'm still trying to analyze Mark Levin and Sean Hannity and most republicans, who are amazingly compliant with liberal news on Ukraine.

It's safe to say most Ukrainians value their independence from Russia, and from the West as well. They just want their own place and their own peace. Their comedian-idiot fake patriot Prez has signed them up for being the foot soldiers for another endless war.

I'm still trying to evaluate whether this is a fake war for the little people. All this patriotism and warmongering on both sides, while Biden and honchos are happy to let Russians negotiate for us in Iran and get the Iranian enriched uranium for their own use from it.

Doesn't really square with good sense, in my book.

Russian state-owned Rossatom has been the world leader in the development of nuclear power projects all over the world. Nuclear power is a far better choice than most of our green energy ideas, if you even believe the hoax about carbon dioxide. Our honchos are idiots for not being determined to lead that industry.

I see Biden's blunder in allowing this new war setup to even get started, deliberately provoking it and pushing it, with no real aim to end it. Its only domestic purpose seems to be making Americans pay more for energy. Then, I am sure, we will wring our hands when Xi lands "humanitarian brigades" on Formosa. Some call that place Taiwan, but it has never been Chinese territory. It was occupied by Chinese Nationalists who have squatted there since the Japanese left. The native people are Formosans, related ethnically to the Filipinos.

But why do I even bother to try to educate ignoramuses. Look at the stuff you read and try to figure out what is propaganda yourselves.

Oh wait. JazzFanz is the training cell for the future Ministry of Truth.

That's the real LOL>
 
It's almost fun to see all the hobgoblins in the "progressive" mind. You see extremists everywhere. Everyone who won't just roll over and comply. Zelensky has outlawed political parties he fears might be pro-Russian even after the horrid invasion, a spectrum of small parties dotting the whole political panopoly of Ukraine, but which add up to more than half the population.
Suppression of some types of opposition in wartime has been a part of every war in human history, and the "small parties" aren't even a tenth of Ukraine's population, much less more than half.
 
Ukranian forces include and in fact are run by ideological NAZI people who believe Hitler should have won WWII. Racists, and all that. They have been tough fighters in the donbas, and have done 3everything we accuse Putin of doing. Again, I don't know so much except what I can read and evaluate from available sources,
Dud,e your sources are useless NWO, QAnon and Deep State quacks and Russian propaganda. Stop reading patriot patel and other pro Trump quacks. Seriously, stop. You are disgrace with this ********.
 
Suppression of some types of opposition in wartime has been a part of every war in human history, and the "small parties" aren't even a tenth of Ukraine's population, much less more than half.
Don't be such a damned liar when you know the truth. I posted above a link to a Ukranian reporter discussing the eleven parties. I'll post it again, but I expect the most abject apology and admission of the truth you can manage. The main opposition party which has had sustained influence, even holding majorities in the parliament and consequently holding the Presidency, with Russian alliance and support leads the list.

Here's the article, which I think is quite objective.


In contemporary Ukraine, political parties rarely survive more than one electoral cycle. The super-electoral year 2019 changed the party structure once again in Ukraine. A year later, there is already palpable interest on the part of the citizenry in new parties, as people have started losing trust in the current ones.

The second largest faction in the Rada and the largest opposition faction, Opposition Platform–For Life (OPFL), a surviving splinter of the Party of Regions, has forty-four seats. Yuriy Boiko, a close associate of ex-president Viktor Yanukovych, is the party's nominal chairman. However, the real leadership of the faction is shared with Viktor Medvedchuk. Medvedchuk, who was the head of the presidential administration under Leonid Kuchma, today is the owner of growing media holdings and a public friend of Russian president Vladimir Putin. Despite the negative view of Russian aggression in Ukraine’s East and the annexation of Crimea, a considerable number of Ukrainian voters support the OPFL.

According to a recent poll, the president would be reelected today by 37.6 percent of decided voters. His main rivals―Petro Poroshenko (16.2 percent), Yuriy Boiko (13.2 percent), and Yulia Tymoshenko (8.7 percent)―significantly lag as choices. The parties show a similar apportionment of support: Servant of the People is supported by 28 percent of decided voters, OPLF by 17.7 percent, Poroshenko’s European Solidarity by 16.2 percent, and Tymoshenko’s Fatherland by 8 percent. However, Zelensky saw his support slip by more than five percentage points just from April to June, and his party lost more than 4 percent.

Here is the list of parties Zelensky has banned:


The 11 political parties banned include Opposition Platform for Life, which has 39 seats in the 450-seat Ukrainian parliament. Among the other parties banned are the Party of Sharity, Nashi (Ours) Party, Left Opposition, Union of Left Forces, Socialist parties. Several of these are left-wing parties and have been opposed to Ukrainian membership of NATO and the European Union (EU).

Opposition Platform for Life has a substantial base in the Russian speaking population in Ukraine’s east. It is led by Viktor Medvedchuk who has been charged with treason by the Ukrainian government. He was put under house arrest following the Russian attack. However, it is alleged by the Ukrainian government that he has escaped house arrest. The charge was denied by Medvedchuk’s lawyer.


Zelensky shut down three TV stations before the invasion, and had already embraced Fascist political elements who had been successful in fighting the Russians in the east. This was when Putin encouraged political refugees in the donbas to come to Russia.

To sum it up, Zelensky never got a majority vote in any election. He won in a parliamentary system with fluid small parties coming and going quite quickly. The Communist Parties have been banned for years. The pro-Russian party in power in 2014 was overthrown by a coup, not an election. Nazi groups largely funded from the West gained power. Zelensky came on the scene as a popular figure with hopes of reforming a grossly corrupt national situation. Most of that corruption has come from Western influencers competing in the field with Russian influencers. The Ukranian people have no voice, and that is the problem. too many cooks in the kitchen, too many fingers in the pot. The ordinary people are the ones who suffer.

Zelensky has sold out the Ukranian people and decimated what rights and hopes they had.

A non-military neutrality without either the EU or NATO or Russia is hard to sustain, but it is the goal.

No, it's not the US policy goal or the NATO goal. The Western goal is to take down Putin and get his oil off the market. So we can be one big happy fake socialist world run by our Honcho Fascists who pretend to be communists/'socialists like every good little college student. Probably Putin wanted Ukraine too. The Donbas and Crimea were Russian territories in recent history until Khruschev moved the border of Ukraine for internal reason of his own.

In all history there has never been a Ukraine that was not being overrun by somebody. It has been run over by everybody on every side. Everyone has left some genetics and some history and some culture there. The idea of keeping our obligations by treaty and diplomacy after the fall of the USSR was the best bet we ever had to do something good for Ukraine...... by staying the hell out and making sure Russia didn't dare go in.

Soros' allies and Western interests insinuated activists into this hell-hole divided people and started the damn war. 2014 is seen by many as the time they gained a foothold, but the issue has been more sustained than that. Even 2005 it was an issue.

Human rights were pretty bad under Zelensky before the invasion, with both sides being charged with gross violations of international law.

 
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Dud,e your sources are useless NWO, QAnon and Deep State quacks and Russian propaganda. Stop reading patriot patel and other pro Trump quacks. Seriously, stop. You are disgrace with this ********.
You're seriously mistaken. None of those are my sources. You should look up the links I post with my comments. I read a lot of stuff. I have to try hard not to swallow the cool aid you swizzle.

just a hint. I think you can manage this if your IQ floats above 50 or so. A bare personal attack is the lowest form of discussion. If you don't like what I say, you should read the information it is based on and then maybe find something that's not just propaganda to improve the discussion. OB and Red try, but unfortunately, we have a media that is much like Pravda or the Russian state media, or other state-run media. It seems the guiding notion of "journalism" today is something we have absorbed from China, which got it from the modern Mormons. That idea is that good journalism does not report or inform, but influence thinking. With the goal of conformity.

That kind of media is the worst thing we can do to ourselves. We have to find a way to rise above it and get the facts and make a better world for ourselves. No top-down authoritarian trash, please.
 
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Don't be such a damned liar when you know the truth. I posted above a link to a Ukranian reporter discussing the eleven parties. I'll post it again, but I expect the most abject apology and admission of the truth you can manage.

I acknowledge the percent of support is well over a tenth. It doesn't seem to be as high as a fifth. Since you claimed "more than half", you lied on a much larger scale. I doubt any abject apology will be forthcoming on your part.




Here is the list of parties Zelensky has banned:


The 11 political parties banned include Opposition Platform for Life, which has 39 seats in the 450-seat Ukrainian parliament. Among the other parties banned are the Party of Sharity, Nashi (Ours) Party, Left Opposition, Union of Left Forces, Socialist parties. Several of these are left-wing parties and have been opposed to Ukrainian membership of NATO and the European Union (EU).
Only two of those parties got more than 0.5% of the vote.

Zelensky shut down three TV stations before the invasion,
Again, standard stuff in war time.
 
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I acknowledge the percent of support is well over a tenth. It doesn't seem to be as high as a fifth. Since you claimed "more than half", you lied on a much larger scale. I doubt any abject apology will be forthcoming on your part.

I base the "more than half" on the 37% maximum vote he ever got, and that was sliding. It's hard to evaluate such a fluid situation as Ukraine was, before the invasion, where the Communist parties were already banned. In Russia, the Communist Party is Putin's largest opposition with almost 40%. I bet it's nearly that, in any reality on the subject, in Ukraine. A lot of people won't vote because they don't want to attract the hate of avid activists one way or another.

There appear to be a few more substantial parties affiliated with strong financial or name-recognition parties without much ideological baggage. Most of these joined with Zelensky in hopes of having a government they could buy.
Only two of those parties got more than 0.5% of the vote.

It appears that it was left-wing small parties after OPFL. Various sorts of Communist activists aroused against the NAZI trend. You can find a lot of communist jparties around the world talking about that. Pretty brave voters. Probably 10 to 1 in that realm decided not to vote because of human rights insecurities in Ukraine.
Again, standard stuff in war time.

Has been standard Ukraine reality for years, actually. A few prevailing political honchos owned some stations, and had lots of support in politics derived from influence peddling. After 2014 some were charged with treason and their stations shut down. Some survived for a few more years, and now Zelensky has shut them down too;.

Don't dig to deep trying to make Zelensky a pure little lily. He's been bought now, and he will do worse than anyone has in recent Ukraine history. this is no great freedom fest.

Like I've said many times, I equate Putin with our own Bush dynasty and affiliates nominally agreeable with the mainstream here, the David Rockefeller set. Maybe now in contest but with more Chinese-influenced players. Corrupt leaders all. Obama and Biden maybe the worst of all.
 
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It's almost fun to see all the hobgoblins in the "progressive" mind.
Not sure who you are talking to here, but I’m hardly a progressive. I’m sure I would know that by know we’re it true.
You see extremists everywhere.
Hardly…..
Zelensky has outlawed political parties he fears might be pro-Russian even after the horrid invasion, a spectrum of small parties dotting the whole political panopoly of Ukraine, but which add up to more than half the population.
Really?? Half the population is pro-Russian, pro Putin? Lol….
The truth is that a lot of people still just think for themselves. Most people.

Maybe you should just learn to live with that fact.
I’m fine with that fact. Are you? I mean, here I am thinking for myself, per usual, I do, after all, have confidence in my ability to use my mind to effect, and think for myself, and here you are once again simply unable to mind your own business where I am concerned. Why is that? I can’t think for myself without you weighing in? Why is that? Maybe you should learn to live with the fact that not everyone agrees with your points of view?

So, if I voice an opinion, your response should not be to point out most people think for themselves. That’s exactly what I myself am doing. Maybe you should just learn to live with that fact?

And I’m fine with others thinking for themselves. Honestly, it’s you that seems to have the biggest problem with people who think for themselves. My dad was a clinical psychologist. He never brought his work home with him, but one lesson he learned working with people he imparted to me, and it really seems to apply to folks like yourself: the people who complain the most about certain behavior in others are usually the people who are guilty of that very behavior themselves.
 
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Is it time for me to chime in again and say that putting Babe on ignore has greatly helped me in my efforts to stay sane, and I would highly recommend it?

Disclaimer: Notice I said “efforts”… I am under no illusions that I am able to reliably maintain a modicum of sanity.
 
@Gameface do you have any expertise on a cruiser’s anti missile defenses? At least, from the american side? What would we be doing if our navy were parked in the Black Sea?

This is interesting. I’d think that Putin and the boys are pretty worried now about their fleet being sunk to the bottom of the Black Sea. They seem like they’d be pretty vulnerable to mines, land to water missiles, drones, etc. I’ve seen videos from Ukrainians just taking pictures and videos from their phones of the Russian navy just chillin there. I’m not a military expert but seems risky when so much of the country is still under Ukrainian power.


View: https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1514398732611211271?s=21&t=LkxUC9g-vCb_2ZqWSjcOwg
 
@Gameface do you have any expertise on a cruiser’s anti missile defenses? At least, from the american side? What would we be doing if our navy were parked in the Black Sea?

This is interesting. I’d think that Putin and the boys are pretty worried now about their fleet being sunk to the bottom of the Black Sea. They seem like they’d be pretty vulnerable to mines, land to water missiles, drones, etc. I’ve seen videos from Ukrainians just taking pictures and videos from their phones of the Russian navy just chillin there. I’m not a military expert but seems risky when so much of the country is still under Ukrainian power.


View: https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1514398732611211271?s=21&t=LkxUC9g-vCb_2ZqWSjcOwg

I was only ever on one Navy ship and that was CVN 68 the USS Nimitz. However, defensive shipboard weapon systems is 100% of what I did in the Navy. The same systems I worked on are on all combat ships in the Navy. I worked on Phalanx CIWS (Close-in Weapon System), RAM (Rolling Airframe Missile) and indirectly on Evolved NATO Sea Sparrow. Links follow.

Phalanx CIWS

RAM

Evolved NATO Sea Sparrow

I was much younger then and I honestly ached for someone to try to fire a missile at my ship so that we could shoot it down and be heroes. I realize now how dumb that was, regardless, I had an extreme amount of confidence in myself and the people I worked with. Our division had just over 20 people in it but my work center, which was responsible for the RAM systems, had 6-8 people at any given time. I was the work center supervisor, or the POIC (petty officer in charge) of the RAM work center for most of my time on the ship. Before I was the POIC my battle station was at the RAM console in CIC (Combat Information Center) which meant I was the guy that would push the "fire" button to engage a target that was threatening my ship.

In my humble opinion you would have to fire either a concentrated stream raid of guided missiles (look stream raid up) or a couple of hypersonic missiles in order to hit my ship. I was directly involved in testing our defensive capability against hypersonic missiles and I hope we have improved our ability to counter them. As it stands I think the primary defensive measure is distance.

A few missiles fired at my ship, good luck some other time, that **** isn't going to work.

Keep in mind also that I worked on point defense weapon systems. The cruisers and destroyers have AEGIS systems and standard missiles that can engage MUCH further out than the stuff I worked on. Also consider that Navy aircraft is the actual first line of defense for a Navy strike group. So you would have had to peel the onion back pretty far before I would have been needed.

The U.S. Navy isn't a joke. There aren't 5 other navies combined that could even think about messing with the U.S. Navy and at least two of those are very close allies, and they are 2 and 3 on the list.
 
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