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2019 Trade Deadline Discussion

Jazz have had a lot of success, even against the Rox slipping screens. Abusing the interior means even if Cappela came over to help Gobert is there for a dump off or putback. I promise you, watch the Rockets games. Favors getting abused on a switch (at least more than anybody else was), or the spacing being off wasn't the big problem. The problem was keying in on Mitch and nobody else being able to create. Exum and Burks had wonderful creating games in game 2, coincidentally the only game the Jazz won.

I'll reiterate, I'm not comparing the lineups, but simply pointing out that the Favors/Gobert duo does have value.
Capela coming over to help on Favs isn't really a disadvantageous state for Capela since he doesn't have to do much to get back to Gobert... it'll work sometimes but it's not a consistent option. Compared to if he's involved in the PnR and gets switched out, the guy that would have to come over and help would be a perimeter guy which is much more disadvantageous for the Rockets since if he doesn't help it's a layup, if he does get help it's a wide open 3 unless the rotations are on point. So if Mitchell is getting to the rim and Capela is chasing vs moving 2ft from Gobert to be in legal defensive position to help, you would much rather the first scenario where Capela is out of position and tailing the play every time.

Your initial point was that Rubio being hurt meant less minutes for Favors which simply isn't true, the Favors/Gobert lineup simply isn't playable against a team like the Rockets in last years playoffs. I do agree that not having a second playmaker to go with Mitchell in the guard spot hurt but it's not like if the Jazz had a Rubio there that Favors instantly becomes playable again. If anything it's even more reason to keep Favors out since the spacing gets even more cramped between Rubio/Favors/Gobert (although Feb - May Rubio was as hot as he's ever been in his career shooting wise so it's a little bit more viable than usual, but still an inferior option to Crowder/Gobert).

Gobert/Favors has value because they're both great players, but the problem is that you can't play both of them together in a series against the Rockets or Warriors, which are the championship standard teams from last year.
Couple examples:




Both of those are simply miscommunication errors between a below average defender in Harden and PJ Tucker. It'll work sometimes but you can't tell me that these plays would be a consistently better option than running a PnR with Gobert there instead of Favors and having Crowder or another stretch 4 in the corner and dragging Capela even further away from the rim or having him involved directly in the PnR and having to potentially tail a play if Mitchell gets around him.

If your point is Gobert/Favors has value then I would agree, but in a playoff series against teams that excel in small ball they're simply not a pairing you can play big minutes together regardless of who you have on the perimeter to create, which is what I thought you original point was around Favs getting less minutes because Rubio was hurt.
 
Like you could play lineups with Favs at the 5 instead of Gobert and they might even be more effective against the Rockets if they're constantly getting Rudy out on the perimeter and attacking him there/negating his ability to protect the rim since you can make Capela have to respect the Pick n Pop option with Favors that isn't a threat with Gobert offensively. You just can't play both together since the goal of attacking the Rockets defense is to get Capela as far away from the rim as possible (similar to how teams with stretch 5s have shredded the Jazz' defense this year by dragging Rudy away from the rim).
 
Capela coming over to help on Favs isn't really a disadvantageous state for Capela since he doesn't have to do much to get back to Gobert... it'll work sometimes but it's not a consistent option. Compared to if he's involved in the PnR and gets switched out, the guy that would have to come over and help would be a perimeter guy which is much more disadvantageous for the Rockets since if he doesn't help it's a layup, if he does get help it's a wide open 3 unless the rotations are on point. So if Mitchell is getting to the rim and Capela is chasing vs moving 2ft from Gobert to be in legal defensive position to help, you would much rather the first scenario where Capela is out of position and tailing the play every time.

Your initial point was that Rubio being hurt meant less minutes for Favors which simply isn't true, the Favors/Gobert lineup simply isn't playable against a team like the Rockets in last years playoffs. I do agree that not having a second playmaker to go with Mitchell in the guard spot hurt but it's not like if the Jazz had a Rubio there that Favors instantly becomes playable again. If anything it's even more reason to keep Favors out since the spacing gets even more cramped between Rubio/Favors/Gobert (although Feb - May Rubio was as hot as he's ever been in his career shooting wise so it's a little bit more viable than usual, but still an inferior option to Crowder/Gobert).

Gobert/Favors has value because they're both great players, but the problem is that you can't play both of them together in a series against the Rockets or Warriors, which are the championship standard teams from last year.

Both of those are simply miscommunication errors between a below average defender in Harden and PJ Tucker. It'll work sometimes but you can't tell me that these plays would be a consistently better option than running a PnR with Gobert there instead of Favors and having Crowder or another stretch 4 in the corner and dragging Capela even further away from the rim or having him involved directly in the PnR and having to potentially tail a play if Mitchell gets around him.

If your point is Gobert/Favors has value then I would agree, but in a playoff series against teams that excel in small ball they're simply not a pairing you can play big minutes together regardless of who you have on the perimeter to create, which is what I thought you original point was around Favs getting less minutes because Rubio was hurt.

I appreciate the thought out post. I mean it IS true (again, straight from Quin's mouth) that Faves was relegated more since they could not create anything outside of Mitch. The "right" lineup for that series that you're touting (Crowder PF, Royce in for hurt Rubio) could not score a lick, so we had to play more Burks, Ex, Neto. And the CAN play against those teams. Again, not saying for anything other than normal minute allocations that Faves/Gobert get and not comparing it to other lineups. But there is a trade off. Think OKC abusing the Dubs old "death lineup" a few playoffs ago with Adams and Kanter.

Also great, defensive miscommunications is what we an offense is looking for.
 
Really? Harris shoots the 3 ball better and isn't injury prone. those are the only differences worth mentioning.They both play no D so why is one praised so much and one is hated so much?

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For one thing, one plays and one doesn't. One has teams wanting him one doesn't. There are reasons for that.

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I have always liked Barnes (maybe it's because we should have had him but those GS bitch asses tanked). I don't think he will walk from $25 million next year.

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I think he might... if he can lock in 20 per for another 4 years he probably should... I think he'd easily get $20M. Might even get the $25M back.
 
What about TJ Warren as a possible stretch 4 target? I've seen his name come up recently in trade talks for the Suns. He's averaged over 18 PPG the last two seasons on close to 50% shooting and this year he's shooting a career high 43% from 3. He's played a lot as a small forward but this year he's played almost all of his minutes at power forward. I was recently reading a Salt City Hoops article that listed him as a possible trade target for the Jazz and they had us sending Thabo and Grayson for him but I'm not sure that's enough to get a deal done.


Went back and thought on this one a little. I'm intrigued because his contract is a good value. I think his shooting is real... or close to it. And dude can score. I don't know if his defense is better/worse/way worse than guys like Tobias.

I don't like that he doesn't rebound and doesn't seem like a passer... but a bucket getter at 4 that can stretch on a value contract is worth looking at. If he improves the other things in a winning situation then he's a crazy value. I'm not sure he's a winning basketball player, but you can't but all their losing on him.

Not sure he is really available, but.... Phoenix wants to be a player in FA... they want a pg... the rumors were that he was available (who knows doe). We could construct some really fair offers...

If they like Rubio... Rubio for TJ and we likely give something extra.

If they want a gap filler pg Neto, Thabo, and a first for TJ - This saves them some salary this year which Phoenix is always about.

Does he give us 80% of what Tobias does... can he improve on the other stuff in a winning situation? We could have him and still carve meaning cap space (he makes a shade under 11M next year).

If we did this I'd move Jae into the starting unit.. Favs gets backup center duties and TJ comes off the bench to get buckets. We use cap space in the offseason to address perimeter/guard needs.
 
True. There are so many spenders this summer that somebody might actually give him $25 year 1. If Tobias gets $33, $25 might be fair....

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If I was an agent and Sacramento had cap space... I'd tell my guys to opt out... leverage the effs out of those morons.
 
I don't see that correlation at all. Favors couldn't switch on Paul or Harden as well as Crowder and O'Neale.

Having watched the series, this is wrong. Favors was fine switching onto Paul/Harden. He's able to get close enough on the perimeter to alter their shot without getting blown by. However, he did not protect the pint as well as Gobert, and Houston went after the paint more when he was in.
 
You can't play both Favs and Gobert against a team like the Rockets who 90% of the time are looking to get one of those guys to switch onto two of the better ISO scorers in the league in Harden and CP3 and let those guys attack Favs/Gobert whenever they want,

When both Favors and Gobert are in, they always try to switch Paul/Harden onto Gobert, not Favors. They also do that when Gobert is on the floor and Favors is not.
 
Went back and thought on this one a little. I'm intrigued because his contract is a good value. I think his shooting is real... or close to it. And dude can score. I don't know if his defense is better/worse/way worse than guys like Tobias.

I don't like that he doesn't rebound and doesn't seem like a passer... but a bucket getter at 4 that can stretch on a value contract is worth looking at. If he improves the other things in a winning situation then he's a crazy value. I'm not sure he's a winning basketball player, but you can't but all their losing on him.

Not sure he is really available, but.... Phoenix wants to be a player in FA... they want a pg... the rumors were that he was available (who knows doe). We could construct some really fair offers...

If they like Rubio... Rubio for TJ and we likely give something extra.

If they want a gap filler pg Neto, Thabo, and a first for TJ - This saves them some salary this year which Phoenix is always about.

Does he give us 80% of what Tobias does... can he improve on the other stuff in a winning situation? We could have him and still carve meaning cap space (he makes a shade under 11M next year).

If we did this I'd move Jae into the starting unit.. Favs gets backup center duties and TJ comes off the bench to get buckets. We use cap space in the offseason to address perimeter/guard needs.

This is the trade we need to go after in my opinion. He is underrated.
 
For sure. I have heard conflicting reports about it. One day he's available, the next he's a building block. Would love to have him on the team though.

The old GM seemed to just be doing stuff... no real plan. Not sure about James Jones (who i think is running things now) but they do dumb stuff... like buying out Rivers and Chandler before they have to... maybe you need those salaries.

Or they keep saying they want to be a player in FA... but they re-signed Booker to a max deal increasing his caphold by a lot... it's understandable why they did that... but if you really feel you are a player you wait unless he takes a slight discount.

No point guards... I just don't understand what they are doing.
 
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