Trade deadline discussion

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Conley is good. He's a world-class point guard and floor general. He can't singlehandedly take over games, but he's solid. The Jazz upgraded when they made the Conley trade. We can argue about the opportunity cost and hypotheticals, but here's a borderline All Star-caliber player who is available for trade and who makes the team better. Plus he's a class act that fits the team culture. Don't act like Grayson Allen, Jae Crowder and late FRPs are some amazing trade package. That was a good trade for the Jazz.

At this point, I'd advocate for the Jazz paying a similar price for Jerami Grant, even if it's somewhat of an overpay. Going from 50+ wins to 60+ wins requires surgically-precise moves, regardless of the costs involved.

 

[LogGrad98]

This always makes me laugh when people mention this. What adequate PG would we be adding after using all of our assets to acquire Grant?

This always makes me laugh when reading comprehension is so low people cannot understand when we are talking about the time of the original acquisition in the first place. And that Brogdon is a PG. lmao

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Also, now the goalpost is that it's 100% up to Conley to take the Jazz further in the playoffs. The deal being good/bad solely rest in his hands. Nothing else matters. He could play perfect basketball, but if the Jazz lose they would have been better off with Grayson Allen, Jae Crowder, and two late first round picks.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

My goalposts have been in the exact same place on Conley since day 1 : If he doesn't help take us further in the playoffs, it's an awful deal.

@Handlogten's Heros is talking about how we failed in all the minor deals since Mike. Well, our margin for error was so thin because our asset cupboard was bare and Mike was making $35+ a year. We had to be perfect in every move after Mike because so much hinged on Mike. And it hasn't panned out.

It was a fair deal... fair is not one price point... fair is a window... and we hit the window.

We could have easily hit on one of those 7/8 smaller moves and been just dandy. It wasn't impossible. I would say now the cupboards are bare... I think the cupboards were fine after the Conley deal.

 

[LogGrad98]

Conley is good. He's a world-class point guard and floor general. He can't singlehandedly take over games, but he's solid. The Jazz upgraded when they made the Conley trade. We can argue about the opportunity cost, but here's a borderline All Star-caliber player who is available for trade and who makes the team better. Plus he's a class act that fits the team culture. Don't act like Grayson Allen, Jae Crowder and late FRPs are some amazing trade package. That was a good trade for the Jazz.

The funny thing about this is that right now the thing we really need to add is basically Allen (not as much but he is still the type of player we need) or Crowder to bolster our perimeter D and provide some energy on defense in general. Perimeter D is what we gave up and is what killed us in 2 straight playoffs. Still hasn't been addressed adequately.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Just getting Bane, Hart, White, McDaniels instead of TB or Doke and we are looking great. Or hitting on the infinity of second round picks DL essentially punted on would been awesome.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

i mean how much of hindsight do you need to take Paul over Conley...

professional sports is all about vision and decision-making, which is why there's only one champion every year with 29 losers pondering they "should've done this" or "could've done that". No one thought Paul would bounce back. well, Phoenix saw it and pulled the trigger. No one thought Pels would ever trade Jrue, well, Bucks saw the opportunity and went for it, which is why they won it and we did not.

it's ok to admit it, then think what we could do better. instead of trying to justify our past mistakes

People thought CP was broken... so you would have needed foresight to see him get healthy. He was seen as a toxic contract essentially.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

The funny thing about this is that right now the thing we really need to add is basically Allen (not as much but he is still the type of player we need) or Crowder to bolster our perimeter D and provide some energy on defense in general. Perimeter D is what we gave up and is what killed us in 2 straight playoffs. Still hasn't been addressed adequately.

Okay, but those players aren't too difficult to replace. Jazz can put Danuel House or Trent Forrest on the floor and slow down opposing guards. The challenge is finding good defenders who also maintain the Jazz's floor spacing and ball movement.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Okay, but those players aren't too difficult to replace. Jazz can put Danuel House or Trent Forrest on the floor and slow down opposing guards. The challenge is finding good defenders who also maintain the Jazz's floor spacing and ball movement.

I'll add to that you have to rid yourself of bad defenders as well (ie Clarkson/Bogey/Mitchell). You dont have to get rid of all 3, but at the very least one, and if you want real systematic defensive improvement, two of them.

 

[jom2003]

People thought CP was broken... so you would have needed foresight to see him get healthy. He was seen as a toxic contract essentially.

Suns didn't think so and it's paying dividends right now. Also they didn't do it until after he already had his bounce back season in OKC. And there really wasn't a particular need for us to go all-in on Conley either. Rudy was only 27 years old and Donovan 23. We could've waited a couple of more seasons and still remain in contention

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

People thought CP was broken... so you would have needed foresight to see him get healthy. He was seen as a toxic contract essentially.

He's also smaller than Conley, more ball dominant than Conley, and doesnt fit Utah's philosophy of taking as many 3's as possible. The philosophy that built Utah one of the best offenses of all time. CP3 has also had his own issues with playoff durability.

Donovan would also end up hating him like Harden did. Donovan doesnt have Booker's mental toughness to be humbled because he's only known success in the NBA (people will take this as trolling, but it's something I truly believe).

Maybe Utah would be better with CP3 (I think they probably would) but I also dont think it's a 100% certainty.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Suns didn't think so and it's paying dividends right now. Also they didn't do it until after he already had his bounce back season in OKC. And there really wasn't a particular need for us to go all-in on Conley either. Rudy was only 27 years old and Donovan 23. We could've waited a couple of more seasons and still remain in contention

Suns were perennial losers and had no choice. They were in desperation mode.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Suns didn't think so and it's paying dividends right now. Also they didn't do it until after he already had his bounce back season in OKC. And there really wasn't a particular need for us to go all-in on Conley either. Rudy was only 27 years old and Donovan 23. We could've waited a couple of more seasons and still remain in contention

Do you know how contracts work? Every year the number of CP3/Donovan/Rudy would go up, increasing the LT bill, which would cause Smith to cut cost other places. They would not have a long-time to contend with CP3 as he would force them to make even more LT influenced saving moves

 

[LogGrad98]

Also, now the goalpost is that it's 100% up to Conley to take the Jazz further in the playoffs. The deal being good/bad solely rest in his hands. Nothing else matters. He could play perfect basketball, but if the Jazz lose they would have been better off with Grayson Allen, Jae Crowder, and two late first round picks.

No one said that, literally no one, except you right now. However we may have been better off using those assets and the money to acquire a player that fit our needs better.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

And if you ever want to feel better about the Jazz's draft failures in regard to drafting backup centers, just remember the Suns drafted Jalen Smith in the lottery over Tyrese Haliburton.

 

[Hearsky]

Forrest Gump could get this:

I think Mike Conley is a good player but I feel like we gave up too much for him in that trade. Our postseason record with or without him does not reflect the price that it took to get him.

Do I need crayons?

I think you have made your point clear. Now STFU and move on.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

No one said that, literally no one, except you right now. However we may have been better off using those assets and the money to acquire a player that fit our needs better.

Lopo has been saying this multiple times over he past few pages.

 

[LogGrad98]

Okay, but those players aren't too difficult to replace. Jazz can put Danuel House or Trent Forrest on the floor and slow down opposing guards. The challenge is finding good defenders who also maintain the Jazz's floor spacing and ball movement.

Those exact players are not too difficult to replace, but we need upgrades in that spot, not just those 2 guys, although I think Crowder would be great with our current group. We needed a stronger defensive player who can hit the 3, that has been our achilles heel for 3 seasons+ now. And when that was painfully obviously what we needed, hell most of us on this board were harping on exactly that point, the FO went all in on Conley, exactly not what we needed. I have been glad to have Conley on our team and enjoy watching him play. But we should have had a different target when he was acquired. He just isn't what we needed then and still haven't been able to fill.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I'll add to that you have to rid yourself of bad defenders as well (ie Clarkson/Bogey/Mitchell). You dont have to get rid of all 3, but at the very least one, and if you want real systematic defensive improvement, two of them.

Putting a lineup out there with Bogey and Clarkson on the floor together is basically giving up on playing defense against quality guards. Clarkson can't stay in front of anybody, and Bogey can't move laterally well enough to rotate. Guards just get anywhere they want on the floor. Ingles was pretty bad this year too.

 

[LogGrad98]

Lopo has been saying this multiple times over he past few pages.

No he has been saying we should have used those assets on a different player. I never once saw him say "we would be better off with Allen and Crowder rather than Conley" unless I missed it in the morass of ********* that encompassed a dozen pages a little ways back.