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jom2003 said:
I mean he was a rookie last season so playing out of control at times was kinda expected. And at the same time his explosiveness, athleticism and energy he can bring onto the floor is simply something you can't reach to other less talented guards like THT.

And I wouldn't take too much from his PT being cut as he's dealing with Monty, who's had similar beef with Austin Rivers in NOLA and Ayton in Phoenix. It has nothing to do with their talent or skills. It's just Monty. In some ways he's worse than Quin and would only play young guys who can defend.
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Lmao, that's really the example you want to use?

And I said Ive been watching him this year. Detroit is my 2nd most watched team thus far.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
And I dont think high or low turnover is necessarily tied to IQ, especially for young players.
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Maybe but low turnover high assist is absolutely an IQ thing. Not talking about Ivey specifically… when I’ve watched him I’ve generally been impressed but I’ve caught him on good nights.
 
HermanG said:
Im not sure that video is a good sales pitch....
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He didn't shoot the ball particularly well in this game but that's the whole point. When your shots aren't falling can you make the adjustment necessary to find other ways to have an impact on the game and that's exactly what Ivey did. We have guys who are veterans in this league and still couldn't figure this out. If guys are buying into Keynote who's currently shooting 38% from the floor then I don't know why they are hating on Ivey
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Maybe but low turnover high assist is absolutely an IQ thing. Not talking about Ivey specifically… when I’ve watched him I’ve generally been impressed but I’ve caught him on good nights.
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The term "IQ" encapsulates a lot of things in basketball, but generally I think turnovers are in a way a positive. If I see a young average very few turnovers, I'm questioning if he can see the tight windows and is taking risk that would make him better.

But obviously there is some disconnect between coach/player with Ivey. He's not going out there and doing what the coach wants. Contrast that to Keyonte who has seemingly adapted his game to what the coach wants so he can get more time. That's a show of IQ to me.

Maybe it's Monty being too strict with what he wants, but even Sasser is starting to overtake Ivey.
 
Like if all it takes to get Ivey is a future first, I would do it, but I wouldnt think the Detroit FO would want to sell the 5th overall pick from last year for a future pick.
 
Like I get Monty is kind of a hard ***, but he's playing Ausar 32 mpg.

And if Austin Rivers and DeAndre Ayton are your examples of guys Monty has been hard on, then that's kind of a huge W for Monty's feel for choosing who to play/give touches to.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Like if all it takes to get Ivey is a future first, I would do it, but I wouldnt think the Detroit FO would want to sell the 5th overall pick from last year for a future pick.
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It really depends. Look what Wiseman went for and he was the 2nd overall pick.
 
jom2003 said:
He didn't shoot the ball particularly well in this game but that's the whole point. When your shots aren't falling can you make the adjustment necessary to find other ways to have an impact on the game and that's exactly what Ivey did. We have guys who are veterans in this league and still couldn't figure this out. If guys are buying into Keynote who's currently shooting 38% from the floor then I don't know why they are hating on Ivey
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But isnt that what Keyonte already does? If he is the PGotf then who is Ivey to us?
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
The term "IQ" encapsulates a lot of things in basketball, but generally I think turnovers are in a way a positive. If I see a young average very few turnovers, I'm questioning if he can see the tight windows and is taking risk that would make him better.

But obviously there is some disconnect between coach/player with Ivey. He's not going out there and doing what the coach wants. Contrast that to Keyonte who has seemingly adapted his game to what the coach wants so he can get more time. That's a show of IQ to me.

Maybe it's Monty being too strict with what he wants, but even Sasser is starting to overtake Ivey.
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I don’t disagree… and I was trying to speak more to the fact I think Key might be a really high IQ player. I don’t know enough about Ivey.

When I think of IQ the biggest thing is reading the floor and processing things… both on offense and defense. Passing to me is the skill that best exhibits IQ on offense imo. Key is hitting basic passes on time and without making mistakes… and he sprinkles in some pretty sweet tough passes too.

There are low turnover guys who are basically just finishers or basic passers so turnovers by themselves aren’t the best indicator and I can be a sign of multiple things.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Like I get Monty is kind of a hard ***, but he's playing Ausar 32 mpg.

And if Austin Rivers and DeAndre Ayton are your examples of guys Monty has been hard on, then that's kind of a huge W for Monty's feel for choosing who to play/give touches to.
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He’s old school so Ausar stuff makes sense as he’s a guy that is “gritty” and doing the little things. It’s prioritizing Hayes over I et that seems weird. Hayes is a good defender but my hell they already have too Many iffy shooters.Thats where I think the old school stuff kinda hurts Monty. You need shooting out there and guys that can get buckets.

I doubt they’d sell Ivey at a price we’d be into. I’d “monitor the situation” though.
 
HermanG said:
But isnt that what Keyonte already does? If he is the PGotf then who is Ivey to us?
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I wouldn't use the word "already". Has Keynote already averaged16ppg his rookie year? I mean it's only been 11 games into the season and third game Keynote been in the starting lineup. Similarly, people been writing ivey off when it's only been 8 games he's played all season(still averaging 11ppg on 50/38/78 split on limited role). It definitely requires a larger sample size before I would prioritize Keyonte over Ivey.
 
HermanG said:
Both listed as 6'4" so not optimal.

Ivey has a visibly slower trigger and isnt a sharpshooter or a great defender... and he needs the ball in his hands. So I just dont see how he would play support to Keyontes lead role.
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If everyone is 100% sold on Keyonte then sure. But he gotta shoot better. It simply wouldn't hurt to seek more options before making a decision. If Keyonte does pan out, we can always sell other guys.
 
jom2003 said:
I wouldn't use the word "already". Has Keynote already averaged16ppg his rookie year? I mean it's only been 11 games into the season and third game Keynote been in the starting lineup. Similarly, people been writing ivey off when it's only been 8 games he's played all season(still averaging 11ppg on 50/38/78 split on limited role). It definitely requires a larger sample size before I would prioritize Keyonte over Ivey.
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Dude no one runs a franchise like that for a good reason. Buying a guy to compete with your promising rookie because he "isnt proven" on his 11th NBA game.

One would also be guaranteed to bleed value as he would play in a less optimal role or just less minutes.
 
HermanG said:
Dude no one runs a franchise like that for a good reason. Buying a guy to compete with your promising rookie because he "isnt proven" on his 11th NBA game.

One would also be guaranteed to bleed value as he would play in a less optimal role or just less minutes.
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Teams pick and choose all the time and I'm not sure when would it be a bad time to have "too many options". I mean if Keyonte is putting up crazy numbers like Donovan's rookie year then sure, "Hood" can go. But it simply hasn't happened and you are talking like it has.

It didn't hurt Curry's career when he had to share the ball with Monta Ellis. It didn't hurt Luka when DSJ was mavs starting PG coming in and Mavs was able to quickly see the talent that they had and send DSJ packing. If you are talented enough and your team isn't completely ignorant, I don't see how that's a bad thing. I mean we the jazzfans can probably speak from our own experience first hand with this DedEx development project. And how Knicks spent so many years passing up opportunitues to acquire true stars just so they can prioritize the development of RJ Barrett. If Keyonte's good enough then it really doesn't matter who we bring in. It would only motivate him even more to be the best player he can be.
 
jom2003 said:
Teams pick and choose all the time and I'm not sure when would it be a bad time to have "too many options". I mean if Keyonte is putting up crazy numbers like Donovan's rookie year then sure, "Hood" can go. But it simply hasn't happened and you are talking like it has.

It didn't hurt Curry's career when he had to share the ball with Monta Ellis. It didn't hurt Luka when DSJ was mavs starting PG coming in and Mavs was able to quickly see the talent that they had and send DSJ packing. If you are talented enough and your team isn't completely ignorant, I don't see how that's a bad thing. I mean we the jazzfans can probably speak from our own experience first hand with this DedEx development project. And how Knicks spent so many years passing up opportunitues to acquire true stars just so they can prioritize the development of RJ Barrett. If Keyonte's good enough then it really doesn't matter who we bring in. It would only motivate him even more to be the best player he can be.
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Using Curry and Ellis and DSJ/Luka as examples is pretty funny.
 
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