Transgender and sports

[fishonjazz]

They must feel like most athletes in their career have when someone dominate is their competition.

If you read the article you will find that they actually feel differently about this.

Like if a male basketball player is better than me and is the reason I dont make the team then im cool it with since I have been competing against males all my life but if i suddenly had to compete against something I have never had to compete against before and lost my spot to that then I might feel differently about it.

 

[One Brow]

@One Brow I haven't read the thread, but are you arguing transgenders in sports isn't an issue?

Since @Al-O-Meter is practically having a conniption fit over the sanctity of Ivy League women's swimming, as are many other people like him, it fairly obviously is an issue, albeit for reasons they can't really explain without acknowledging bigotry. No sense denying reality.

Since I view professional sports as entertainment, and college Division I sports as well, I don't see why it should be an issue. Let the people that run these entertain venues determine their own rules, just like movie producers set the rules of a movie. I don't tell Elton John how to sing, why should I tell the NCAA directors how to run their sport?

 

[Archie Moses]

Since @Al-O-Meter is practically having a conniption fit over the sanctity of Ivy League women's swimming, as are many other people like him, it fairly obviously is an issue, albeit for reasons they can't really explain without acknowledging bigotry. No sense denying reality.

Since I view professional sports as entertainment, and college Division I sports as well, I don't see why it should be an issue. Let the people that run these entertain venues determine their own rules, just like movie producers set the rules of a movie. I don't tell Elton John how to sing, why should I tell the NCAA directors how to run their sport?

It's a one ended issue.

There's having compassion and supporting, but there's reality too.

Again, it's a one sided issue.

 

[One Brow]

It's a one ended issue.

There's having compassion and supporting, but there's reality too.

Again, it's a one sided issue.

I prefer seeing compassion and reality as being joined with "and" instead of "but". We don't need to choose.

 

[One Brow]

If you read the article you will find that they actually feel differently about this.

Like if a male basketball player is better than me and is the reason I dont make the team then im cool it with since I have been competing against males all my life but if i suddenly had to compete against something I have never had to compete against before and lost my spot to that then I might feel differently about it.

Since they are women competing against another woman, what is the "something different"? A dolphin?

 

[One Brow]

I don't know if this has been discussed or not but here it is

Quote from the article:

"She is most likely going to be representing you and I and all other Americans at the Olympics," the father, who has a medical background, said of Thomas during an interview with Fox News Digital.

Thomas is not coming close to setting NCAA records. She is not Olympic caliber. She's a big fish in the little pond of the Ivy League sports.

 

[fishonjazz]

Since they are women competing against another woman, what is the "something different"? A dolphin?

Some of the women were born as women. some were not. There is the difference.

 

[gandalfe]

Some of the women were born as women. some were not. There is the difference.

Actually, none of them were born women.

 

[One Brow]

Some of the women were born as women. some were not. There is the difference.

Some were born taller, some were born shorter.
Some were born more muscular, some were born less muscular.
Some were born with board shoulders, some with narrow shoulders.

These are all differences.

 

[fishonjazz]

Some were born taller, some were born shorter.
Some were born more muscular, some were born less muscular.
Some were born with board shoulders, some with narrow shoulders.

These are all differences.

None of the ones born as females were born with penises though. that is the difference.
Dolphins are born with hearts and lungs and eyes but they were also born with fins and whatnot. Some differences matter more than others.
I can see that you will never convince me that humans born as males and humans born as females should compete together against each other and I will never convince you they shouldn't. We are done here.

 

[One Brow]

None of the ones born as females were born with penises though. that is the difference.

Assuming Thomas still has a penis, how does having a penis make you a better swimmer?

Dolphins are born with hearts and lungs and eyes but they were also born with fins and whatnot. Some differences matter more than others.

I agree completely. That's why the various sport organization use the best medical advice to decide when athletes have transitioned enough for the competition to be fair. Since neither of us is a doctor at all, much less one that works with transitioning people, neither of us is qualified to say when the competitions are fair.

I can see that you will never convince me that humans born as males and humans born as females should compete together against each other and I will never convince you they shouldn't. We are done here.

Absolutely. There is no arguing with bigotry, there is only exposing it. I'm satisfied to end the discussion here.

 

[fishonjazz]

@One Brow do you think any male (not ones that are transitioning or have transitioned) should be allowed to compete in females sports?

 

[One Brow]

@One Brow do you think any male (not ones that are transitioning or have transitioned) should be allowed to compete in females sports?

As I have said at least five times now, I think every sport's governing body should make their own rules about who can compete and who can not, and it will be different rules for leagues. Some professional leagues might ban trans men/women entirely; they need to do what works for them. High school leagues are supposed to be about developing students, not the best athlete, and those would have different rules from professional leagues.

 

[fishonjazz]

As I have said at least five times now, I think every sport's governing body should make their own rules about who can compete and who can not, and it will be different rules for leagues. Some professional leagues might ban trans men/women entirely; they need to do what works for them. High school leagues are supposed to be about developing students, not the best athlete, and those would have different rules from professional leagues.

If they did away with mens and womens teams and simply had a kearns high school basketball team (not a mens and womens team), a kearns high tennis team, soccer team, etc then there would be no women in sports. Why do you think that is?

 

[fishonjazz]

As I have said at least five times now, I think every sport's governing body should make their own rules about who can compete and who can not

So lets say every sports governing body decides sports should be genderless. Wouldn't it suck that we would never see another Serena Williams? I think it would suck that my daughter wouldn't have a chance to compete at a high level in any sports.

 

[Ron Mexico]

If you read the article you will find that they actually feel differently about this.

Like if a male basketball player is better than me and is the reason I dont make the team then im cool it with since I have been competing against males all my life but if i suddenly had to compete against something I have never had to compete against before and lost my spot to that then I might feel differently about it.

I read it. It sounds like what every athlete has gone through at some point in their career unless they are extremely elite. It does seem like people are pretty uncomfortable with a lot of this because its new for them and something they dont understand. That makes sense to me. But that doesnt mean its different from what people go through when they lose. Often people look for things to bring the person down. I heard all of this when playing sports when we lost.

Would you feel the same if this was someone born female competing against males and dominating?

 

[gandalfe]

None of the ones born as females were born with penises though. that is the difference.
Dolphins are born with hearts and lungs and eyes but they were also born with fins and whatnot. Some differences matter more than others.
I can see that you will never convince me that humans born as males and humans born as females should compete together against each other and I will never convince you they shouldn't. We are done here.

What about the someone who is born with both genitalia? Or someone who has what's know as "XX male syndrome," where a person has 2 X, no Y, but still has a penis? Or any one of a myriad of other possibilities that go beyond male/female?

Why, by the way, should the determining factor be a penis or lack thereof? Is the penis in any way important in the sport? Not in many of them, I would suggest.

 

[Ron Mexico]

So lets say every sports governing body decides sports should be genderless. Wouldn't it suck that we would never see another Serena Williams? I think it would suck that my daughter wouldn't have a chance to compete at a high level in any sports.

I dont think anyone is saying this. But what would be different if you had a son born too short, undersized, or a thousand other things that didnt let him compete? Should we allow a league for them? Or if its high school and people really want to play we should let them. Maybe they arent on the best team and maybe they dont get much playing time. But the point of high school sports isnt winning and should not be.

 

[gandalfe]

Would you feel the same if this was someone born female competing against males and dominating?

I guarantee you, a team of WNBA stars would destroy a team comprised of any 5 of us on this board. Heck, Lisa Leslie alone in her prime could probably beat us 1-on-5.

 

[slc]

I guarantee you, a team of WNBA stars would destroy a team comprised of any 5 of us on this board. Heck, Lisa Leslie alone in her prime could probably beat us 1-on-5.

But the 12 worst NBA players would destroy the 12 best WNBA players every time.