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Utah Jazz and Enes Kanter Workout Report

Dwill_PwnasaurasRex said:
I'm sure KOC will be very upset you aren't pleased.
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Not to worry. KOC isn't remotely dumb enough to do it.

While an unprotected 2012 pick from Washington sounds exciting at first, it comes with no guarantees. Washington could move up to 3, pick Kanter (a great compliment to John Wall) and who's to say that Washington doesn't make some sort of weak-*** Eastern Conference playoff run and sneaks into the 8 seed with 37 wins? Thus, leaving us out of the lottery and having seriously undervalued the #3 pick we traded to them.

Utah rolled the dice when they dealt D-Will and their reward was lottery luck that vaulted them into the top 3. Sometimes you have to simply capitalize on the luck you've had, instead of trying to parlay it into more luck. As I've said quite a few times already, at that point it becomes extremely easy to out-smart yourself.

The fascination that some Jazz fans have with trading down in this draft is simply mind-boggling.
 
colton said:
My compilation is better :)... but for what it's worth I have the same individuals in almost the same order.
6 Kawhi Leonard (11-11-11-11-10-9-5-6-7-8)
7 Kemba Walker (5-5-5-5-5-6-7-5-5-7)
8 Jonas Valanciunas (7-4-8-7-8-7-9-8-8-5)
9 Bismack Biyombo (8-8-7-8-7-8-8-9-9-9)
10 Alec Burks (9-9-9-10-9-10-10-10-10-10)
11 Tristan Thompson (12-15-13-13-12-12-11-11-11-11)
12 Marcus Morris (14-14-12-12-13-13-13-12-12-12)
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LOL.. yes sorry in the heat of the moment I just used what I could fine quickly, wasn't thinking clearly.

Next time I'll definitely use yours!
 
Hotttnickkk said:
LOL.. yes sorry in the heat of the moment I just used what I could fine quickly, wasn't thinking clearly.

Next time I'll definitely use yours!
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Awwwww ... just like Kentucky .. keepin' it in the fam .. I love it, feels just like home.
 
colton said:
My compilation is better :)... but for what it's worth I have the same individuals in almost the same order.
6 Kawhi Leonard (11-11-11-11-10-9-5-6-7-8)
7 Kemba Walker (5-5-5-5-5-6-7-5-5-7)
8 Jonas Valanciunas (7-4-8-7-8-7-9-8-8-5)
9 Bismack Biyombo (8-8-7-8-7-8-8-9-9-9)
10 Alec Burks (9-9-9-10-9-10-10-10-10-10)
11 Tristan Thompson (12-15-13-13-12-12-11-11-11-11)
12 Marcus Morris (14-14-12-12-13-13-13-12-12-12)
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Yeah, this lists JV at 8. If the Jazz could get Washington's unprotected 2012 pick as partial payment for swapping the 3rd for the 6th I think I might be ok with JV as consolation.
 
BENTLEY said:
Yeah, this lists JV at 8. If the Jazz could get Washington's unprotected 2012 pick as partial payment for swapping the 3rd for the 6th I think I might be ok with JV as consolation.
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Contrary to popular belief, I feel the Wiz will suck again next year .. so my opinion differs to many.
 
Well, the Wiz out-sucked the Nets this year. So that's something. But if the Wizards are drafting 6th this year, what makes anyone think their pick next year will be better than that?

The Jazz got the lucky bounce in the lottery--a 1-in-5 chance or something. Why get talked out of the pick when Kanter, Knight or Williams WILL be there. Any one of those is a major building piece. Plus, the Jazz need to fulfill Sir Kick's dream.

The Jazz would have to be sold hook, line and sinker on Biyombo or Vesely OVER Kanter and Knight to even consider trading down to #6.
 
I agree they have to be sufficiently sold on a guy in the 6 range to agree to do this. Yeah, it's a gamble but it's one worth considering. I'd consider it, and I have Kanter as my number 1 prospect in the draft. There's some question as to how much better he'll be than Valanciunas and some would say Valanciunas will eventually be the better of the two. I don't know, I'm not a part of the workouts. But I do think Washington could very likely suck again next year. Even if their 2012 pick falls again to the 6th pick, it is still a nice asset that could be combined with another asset to move up to grab Harrison Barnes. JV + Barnes might be better than just Kanter.

Yeah there are risks, but even Kanter is a risk.

But I don't think this will happen anyway, so I hope the Jazz draft Kanter.
 
As I have read through this thread it seems like many of you are forgetting that if we want to trade down with anyone in this draft, we would be doing it during the draft. Everyone is talking about taking a risk of trading down to #6 and then "what would happen if Knight" or someone else we wanted wasn't there? The point is, you discuss the scenario with Washington before the draft... and they say hey Jazz would you be willing to give us Kanter if you draft him? The Jazz then say no, unless you give us XY&Z and our second choice "Brandon Knight falls". If Brandon Knight doesn't fall we keep Kanter. Its not like there is risk in this at all.

If the Jazz feel that Knight is by far the better prospect and fit for their needs, and they don't want to risk not getting him regardless of the trade benefits with Washington they pass on the trade. If they feel like Kanter and Knight are equally good for their needs they listen...simple as that. No one seems to get that.
 
jazzman12 said:
Utah rolled the dice when they dealt D-Will and their reward was lottery luck that vaulted them into the top 3. Sometimes you have to simply capitalize on the luck you've had, instead of trying to parlay it into more luck. As I've said quite a few times already, at that point it becomes extremely easy to out-smart yourself.

The fascination that some Jazz fans have with trading down in this draft is simply mind-boggling.
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Yes, lucky that it turned out to be the #3 pick, but it was a virtual lock that NJ wasn't going to make the playoffs. The Jazz - and Nets - knew that Deron had a hurt wrist. Sure they won a few games right after the trade, but 2 of those were against the woeful Raptors. I was never really worried NJ would make a push for the playoffs. But Washington has a legitimate shot at the #7 or #8 seed next season. No way would I ever trade a #3 for a possible #14 or #15 next year. I don't care how weak you view this draft or how deep the next one MIGHT be projected. I'd gladly take Kanter, Knight or Williams over Walker and a complete unknown next year.

blackham has a point...the only way you make this deal is to draft Kanter #3 and then see if Knight (or someone else the Jazz like) is available at #6. Then the Jazz and Wizards trade the rights to their draft picks, along with any other assets. That's exactly what happened with Brandon Roy and Randy Foye back in 2006.
 
blackham9258 said:
As I have read through this thread it seems like many of you are forgetting that if we want to trade down with anyone in this draft, we would be doing it during the draft. Everyone is talking about taking a risk of trading down to #6 and then "what would happen if Knight" or someone else we wanted wasn't there? The point is, you discuss the scenario with Washington before the draft... and they say hey Jazz would you be willing to give us Kanter if you draft him? The Jazz then say no, unless you give us XY&Z and our second choice "Brandon Knight falls". If Brandon Knight doesn't fall we keep Kanter. Its not like there is risk in this at all.

If the Jazz feel that Knight is by far the better prospect and fit for their needs, and they don't want to risk not getting him regardless of the trade benefits with Washington they pass on the trade. If they feel like Kanter and Knight are equally good for their needs they listen...simple as that. No one seems to get that.
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Alright - now tell me what we should do in the following scenario.

If the Jazz do not want Kanter (hence they'd rather trade down), and they want Knight as well as wanting to trade down with Wizard for additional assets?

You pick Kanter at #3, and tell Wizard to take Knight. But what if Toronto takes Knight? Then you're left with Kanter, which is not what you wanted to start with.

- then you're forced to tell them to pick whoever's left and what we've been saying is that whoever is left is crap.
 
Hotttnick,

Please read the last sentence of my post. I already covered this. If the Jazz feel that Knight is by far the bpa at that point they don't risk it, period! If they believe its close and like both players then it is worth the risk.

Personally, I believe Kanter is the BPA, perhaps even for the entire draft. As an athletic, coordinated center he has much more possibility for updside than any other player in this draft. Most people agree that Irving and Knight aren't Chris Paul or Deron Williams, but more like Devin Harris and Conly. Kanter looks like he could be a more physical and more ready Chris Kaman. So in my opinion he is the BPA. KOC has said the Jazz need size and will take the BPA. But again, if they are that sold on Knight they don't risk it.

But, I would bet that it is the other way around that the Jazz believe Kanter is a much better upside prospect than Knight, and hence it would take a very big offer to get him. Unprotected 2012, this years #18,#35 and taking on a bell contract etc.

The question then becomes is the financial relief, and picks enough for them to give up on Kanter's upside and embrace Knights. Thats the intrigue of the draft and why GM's do all the homework they do. In the end, time will tell. Injuries and systems will play a roll in a players development, and ultimately a little luck will play a roll.

I wouldn't be surprised if the calculation for the Jazz, is that if they are going to consider this trade multiple scenarios would have to fall in place: For example:

1- Knight has to fall
2- Perhaps they would need to make sure that with the #18 & #12 picks, that they could net them the #7 pick so they could pick up whomever the wanted (Biyombo or Burks). That would make sense, if secretly they fall in love with both Biyombo and Knight but have Kanter rated higher than both. If they know that Biyombo won't get past #8 and Detroit, and they know that Knight won't get past #7 and Sacramento, they wouldn't be able to discuss the swap with Sacramento until Knight goes at #6. Sure this would mean that Washington would take some risk, but they could always flip Knight to Sacramento or some other place...if our swap with Sacramento didn't work out.

Personally I would love to see Knight and Biyombo or Burks as our net take from the draft. But I would need to make sure that we got good value for Kanter in case Knight turns into Devin Harris and Kanter turns into a top 3 center. Could we really complain if we had an occasional all star point guard, and Harrison Barnes from our swap of Kanter, plus a defensive stud in Biyombo?

This draft is filled with so many scenarios and intrigue and will be fun to watch and talk about for years as these players develop.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Does Bogut have a legitimate 3pt range or any jump shot for that matter?
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This.

And even if Kanter was a carbon copy of Bogut (no 3pt range or consistent jump shot), I'd still take him at 3. Bogut is a very good NBA Center. If he were not toiling in NBA Siberia, more people would realize this. Put him on a "sexy" team like the Lakers, Suns, Knicks, etc and the dudes probably an All-Star.
 
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