Utah @ Oregon, Sat. 11/16 @ 2pm MT, Fox Sports 1

[The Thriller]

There's an awful lot of folks talking about patience, citing how long it takes to compete in the PAC 12. My problem with this thinking can be traced right to Wazzu. In under 2 seasons, Leach has taken a school that DID NOT have Pac12 talent, does not have top notch facilities, does not have a desireable recruiting location and yet somehow they've already surpassed Utah. This should never had happened.

I agree.

Leach >>> Kyle Whit

The situation that Utah finds itself in is 100 percent on coaching. Haven't recruited nor a successful enough offensive philosophy. In 2 years leach has completely turned that place around and has surpassed Utah.

Something similar could be said about Arizona and Arizona St... I don't recall AZ being any good when rich Rod got there yet he's way ahead of Utah.

 

[green]

There's an awful lot of folks talking about patience, citing how long it takes to compete in the PAC 12. My problem with this thinking can be traced right to Wazzu. In under 2 seasons, Leach has taken a school that DID NOT have Pac12 talent, does not have top notch facilities, does not have a desireable recruiting location and yet somehow they've already surpassed Utah. This should never had happened.

Leach also did it with an upperclassman QB.

If Wilson is never hurt this year, this team is bowling and beat Leach this year, then Leach isn't boing this year and everyone is talking about what Whitt has done vs how Leach still sucks.

It's all about your QB

 

[fishonjazz]

Leach also did it with an upperclassman QB.

If Wilson is never hurt this year, this team is bowling and beat Leach this year, then Leach isn't boing this year and everyone is talking about what Whitt has done vs how Leach still sucks.

It's all about your QB

Good post

 

[green]

Same with asu and Arizona. Give Whitt Kelly, Denker or Halliday and we win. 8+ games.

Not giving Whitt a pass, but I'd take Whitt over Rod, Graham or Leach. Look at the three non bowling teams in the PAC-12:

Utah: true sophomore and RS sophomore QB
Cal: true freshman
Colorado: freshman


You succeed and fail by how good your QB is. Whitt has had a QB healthy once...and didn't lose a game. And that QB wasn't a world beater either.

Whitt figures out the QB spot and we are fine. If not, then we will continue the last 4 years.

 

[Duck Rodgers]

Same with asu and Arizona. Give Whitt Kelly, Denker or Halliday and we win. 8+ games.

Not giving Whitt a pass, but I'd take Whitt over Rod, Graham or Leach. Look at the three non bowling teams in the PAC-12:

Utah: true sophomore and RS sophomore QB
Cal: true freshman
Colorado: freshman


You succeed and fail by how good your QB is. Whitt has had a QB healthy once...and didn't lose a game. And that QB wasn't a world beater either.

Whitt figures out the QB spot and we are fine. If not, then we will continue the last 4 years.

Your next QB, barring a Wilson recovery or clearance, is a lock to be Shutlz or a Freshman right?

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Green, maybe it is all about the QB, but the blame that Utah hasn't had solid/steady QB play since 2008 can be laid right at the feet of Whit. Maybe Wilson was bad luck this year but it doesn't excuse the last 5 years of QB futility. If Whit gets one more year, he HAS to not only find a QB, but do better than having former walk-on's as his 2nd string. I have serious doubts he can do this. His career as a coach certainly doesn't suggest it.

 

[The Thriller]

Leach also did it with an upperclassman QB.

If Wilson is never hurt this year, this team is bowling and beat Leach this year, then Leach isn't boing this year and everyone is talking about what Whitt has done vs how Leach still sucks.

It's all about your QB

Lets not go overboard here. Even in his best games Wilson was still throwing way too many INTs and low balls which were easily batted down. I don't think having a healthy Wilson yesterday would have meant a W.

If you take away the emotions from his head injury and actually look at the stats you will see that Wilson was mostly a below avg/avg QB in the PAC 12. If Utah fans would just be honest with themselves they'd agree that Wilson just wasn't very good at all.

Utah needs to hit a home run ball this offseason at the QB position. Check the JCs, the missionaries coming home, etc. Like the Jazz, Whit has Gotta get that Jabari Parker like franchise player this spring to resurrect his offense. When's that Lone Peak kid coming back?

 

[green]

Green, maybe it is all about the QB, but the blame that Utah hasn't had solid/steady QB play since 2008 can be laid right at the feet of Whit. Maybe Wilson was bad luck this year but it doesn't excuse the last 5 years of QB futility. If Whit gets one more year, he HAS to not only find a QB, but do better than having former walk-on's as his 2nd string. I have serious doubts he can do this. His career as a coach certainly doesn't suggest it.

This is why I'm so torn with Whitt. He has done so much good...but the QB has been soooo bad.

 

[green]

Lets not go overboard here. Even in his best games Wilson was still throwing way too many INTs and low balls which were easily batted down. I don't think having a healthy Wilson yesterday would have meant a W.

If you take away the emotions from his head injury and actually look at the stats you will see that Wilson was mostly a below avg/avg QB in the PAC 12. If Utah fans would just be honest with themselves they'd agree that Wilson just wasn't very good at all.

Utah needs to hit a home run ball this offseason at the QB position. Check the JCs, the missionaries coming home, etc. Like the Jazz, Whit has Gotta get that Jabari Parker like franchise player this spring to resurrect his offense. When's that Lone Peak kid coming back?

When Wilson was healthy, Wilson had a top 20 offense, was national player of the week, and was 4-2 with a win over Stanford, 38 points against OSU and a chance to beat UCLA. As a sophomore. And it wasn't against bad teams. It was against BYU, Utah St, UCLA, OSU, and Stanford.

 

[The Thriller]

When Wilson was healthy, Wilson had a top 20 offense, was national player of the week, and was 4-2 with a win over Stanford, 38 points against OSU and a chance to beat UCLA. As a sophomore. And it wasn't against bad teams. It was against BYU, Utah St, UCLA, OSU, and Stanford.

You make a good point that if we were to just look at the box score then we could assume that a healthy Travis Wilson=at least 6 Utah wins. This might be true some of the time. In fact, it was my gut reaction when I tuned in late to yesterday's game. "If only Wilson had played." However, not in this case. In fact, one could possibly even argue that Wilson and Scholtz have about the same level of effectiveness. How? Well, I'll explain:

When Wilson was healthy he had 13 TDs and 10 INTs (everything BEFORE the AZ game). One of those games (his highest TD throwing game) is an outlier against crappy Weber St who couldn't even beat Bingham or Timpview High School this year. So essentially, he was rolling with 10 TDs and 10 INTs.

If you were to focus on just the PAC 12? He had 9 pass TDs and 17 INTs. Clearly, he did better against Mtn West (Utah St), Independent (BYU), and high school 3a schools (Weber St) than against PAC 12 schools. If you look back to last year, you'll see the exact same trend. Ok against teams outside of the conference. Bad/barely adequate against PAC 12 teams.

Which is essentially, the root of the problem. He's not a PAC 12 QB. Maybe WAC or MWC. Not PAC.

You brought up the 38 pts against Oregon St. Yet, in that very same game he had more INTs (3) than passing TDs (2). In fact, never at any point in his PAC 12 career this year did he throw more than 2 TDs in a single game.

For his career, Travis Wilson has 23 TDs and 22 INTs. And you can't blame it all on the injury. Last year, he had 7 TDs and 6 INTs.

Just to compare, Riley Nelson finished his career with 35 TDs and 21 INTs. He completed about the same percentage of passes. that's riley Nelson, even BYU fans admit he was a bad QB.

It's time to put the emotions aside and realize that Travis Wilson never was very good. Cool kid. Athletic player. He might have been doable to compete in the Mtn West. But not a PAC 12 QB. Sorry.

Whitt has gotta recruit himself a PAC 12 QB. Enough "jackpotting" around with guys like Wilson and Wynn.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Travis' toughness grew on me quickly but I started to worry about his talent ceiling before the injured hand. As great as the Stanford game was, the game plan looked as if it was masking Travis' weaknesses. Just off of memory but I would bet 85% of his passes that day were swing passes and bubble screens.

I have a hunch that Connor Manning and Brandon Cox are more talented. I also worry about the staff's ability to tap that potential.

 

[green]

What were Wilson's stats before and after Murphy/Tonga were hurt?

 

[green]

You are comparing a 19 year old true sophomore to a 23, 24 year old senior?

 

[The Thriller]

You are comparing a 19 year old true sophomore to a 23, 24 year old senior?

Are you really trying to defend Wilson's stats by bringing up Riley Nelson's age? Seriously???

 

[The Thriller]

Travis' toughness grew on me quickly but I started to worry about his talent ceiling before the injured hand. As great as the Stanford game was, the game plan looked as if it was masking Travis' weaknesses. Just off of memory but I would bet 85% of his passes that day were swing passes and bubble screens.

I have a hunch that Connor Manning and Brandon Cox are more talented. I also worry about the staff's ability to tap that potential.

Completely agree.

The pro and con here is that I think Erikson is a good coach. He knows talent and how to utilize it. The con? The QB coach is completely unproven. He did a good job quarterbacking in 08 but that doesn't mean he can coach worth a damn. BJ is completely unproven. And from what I've seen, I'm not impressed.

 

[UGLI baby]

The fact that the thriller might be a real person makes me nervous to leave my own home.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Here's my QB thoughts heading into 2014: Assuming Whit returns (safe assumption), If we're hearing about how Schulz is really ready to lead this team during spring and fall ball, Utah is in serious trouble yet again. The kid had ZERO D1 offers for a reason. Meanwhile, you have Manning and Cox that were 4 star recruits depending on who's rankings you looked at. These 2 drew interest from the likes of Oregon, USC, Arizona, etc.

These are the 2 guys that Whit ABSOLUTELY HAS to be looking at. If we keep trying to tread water with Schulz, our fate is already decided....

 

[UGLI baby]

I sincerely hope that Schultz is closer to transferring than being the starter next year.

Not a D1 QB, and not even a guy that can be solid like Jon Hays. Just a brutal player with no upside.

I'll gladly eat my words if I'm wrong, but I see zero reason for optimism with him.


£¥£

 

[green]

I 100% want Whitt back, BUT I almost want Whitt to make Schulz transfer just so he won't be tempted to play him. I'm a big Wilson fan. BUT I have no problem opening up the QB competition. Let the best man win (if Wilson can play).

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

I 100% want Whitt back, BUT I almost want Whitt to make Schulz transfer just so he won't be tempted to play him. I'm a big Wilson fan. BUT I have no problem opening up the QB competition. Let the best man win (if Wilson can play).

You can officially write off Wilson. I just don't see how in the world you chance a potentially fatal injury with his condition. He is done.