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Utah Spy Center........

franklin said:
"Despite the high cost of living, it's still quite popular"

Participating in "activities" is as generic as choosing to work/live in a more dangerous target vs. rural New Mexico. You are doing a disservice to the victims of 9-11 by applying your logic which blames them for working in a high risk location. That's not fair to the victims or their families.

More personally, I don't chose who drinks and drives, what diabetic doesn't regulate their sugar levels before driving, or which socialite texts and drives anymore than I chose who decides to fly an airplane into a skyscraper. The difference is intent, which is something I already gave ground to. Why does your position imply wonton or willful negligence is more damaging than intentional? Obviously as a society we've decided the latter is, and offer Christ-like redemption to the wilfully oblivious who kill without meaning to. Redemption doesn't change the loss of a life, however, regardless of whether you decide it best to retaliate by invading Iraq or sentencing the reckless 16 year old driver to 6-months probation. Both killed your child and nothing will reverse that. It's the following actions you take that bring meaning to those who have been lost.
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I'm done for the night as this has taken up my last hour and I have **** to do. I'll respond tomorrow. If I'm being frank, though I've seemed supportive and I guess am, I'm not crazy about the idea of this and have my concerns. I also see what you're saying about risk:reward. I just see there being more good considering this crazy ****ing world and what's going on in the Mideast, North Korea, China, etc., etc., etc. Hell, maybe it'll be a great guide to catch a bunch of pederasts. Or finding the right combo of meds for Dragon.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
Sorry broseph but I'm not naive to think that my voice matters on the large scale. And that's the problem. Government's too ****ing big. On a smaller scale, that is, at the town, county or state level, sure, my voice can truly make a difference. Nationally, **** that. I'm all but powerless imo. Call me what you will and get upset with my indifference but I'll worry about things that I can control. I'm not high enough on myself to think I can make a difference and surely not bright enough to actually make a difference even if I was high enough on myself.
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Your post was good, but I want to touch on this part. It seems you and The Thriller share this same belief, and I can't fathom why. Do you think that the future President of the United States just wakes up one day in his 50's and thinks, "You know, I think I'll be the President now.". No, that's not how it works. I'd bet everything I will ever own that our future President, say 20 years from now, is sitting on a city council somewhere in Podunk, Smallville right now. He is on the city council because he's pissed about what is going on in his city and decided that his voice matters. After a term or two there, he'll run for mayor. After that, he may run for a seat in the House, or Governor. Then the senate. Then... See where it's going? You DO have a voice, and it DOES matter. What you choose to do with your voice, however, is where the real difference lies.
 
TroutBum said:
Your post was good, but I want to touch on this part. It seems you and The Thriller share this same belief, and I can't fathom why. Do you think that the future President of the United States just wakes up one day in his 50's and thinks, "You know, I think I'll be the President now.". No, that's not how it works. I'd bet everything I will ever own that our future President, say 20 years from now, is sitting on a city council somewhere in Podunk, Smallville right now. He is on the city council because he's pissed about what is going on in his city and decided that his voice matters. After a term or two there, he'll run for mayor. After that, he may run for a seat in the House, or Governor. Then the senate. Then... See where it's going? You DO have a voice, and it DOES matter. What you choose to do with your voice, however, is where the real difference lies.
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Are you saying I should run for President?

<You can be VP and we'll get mad hos in the WH>
 
TroutBum said:
Your post was good, but I want to touch on this part. It seems you and The Thriller share this same belief, and I can't fathom why. Do you think that the future President of the United States just wakes up one day in his 50's and thinks, "You know, I think I'll be the President now.". No, that's not how it works. I'd bet everything I will ever own that our future President, say 20 years from now, is sitting on a city council somewhere in Podunk, Smallville right now. He is on the city council because he's pissed about what is going on in his city and decided that his voice matters. After a term or two there, he'll run for mayor. After that, he may run for a seat in the House, or Governor. Then the senate. Then... See where it's going? You DO have a voice, and it DOES matter. What you choose to do with your voice, however, is where the real difference lies.
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So you're saying "Troutbum for President, 2036" isn't going to happen now that you lost your city council election?
 
TroutBum said:
Your post was good, but I want to touch on this part. It seems you and The Thriller share this same belief, and I can't fathom why. Do you think that the future President of the United States just wakes up one day in his 50's and thinks, "You know, I think I'll be the President now.". No, that's not how it works. I'd bet everything I will ever own that our future President, say 20 years from now, is sitting on a city council somewhere in Podunk, Smallville right now. He is on the city council because he's pissed about what is going on in his city and decided that his voice matters. After a term or two there, he'll run for mayor. After that, he may run for a seat in the House, or Governor. Then the senate. Then... See where it's going? You DO have a voice, and it DOES matter. What you choose to do with your voice, however, is where the real difference lies.
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In all seriousness, I said my voice matters on a smaller scale...I'm not denying that.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
Are you saying I should run for President?

<You can be VP and we'll get mad hos in the WH>
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Ever seen the ho's that are coming out of the WH? Ya, I think I'll pass on that action.

catratcho said:
So you're saying "Troutbum for President, 2036" isn't going to happen now that you lost your city council election?
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I have zero aspirations of a career in politics. I like to be involved locally, and that's about it.

Wes Mantooth said:
In all seriousness, I said my voice matters on a smaller scale...I'm not denying that.
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I'm telling you that it matters on the biggest scale also.
 
TroutBum said:
Ever seen the ho's that are coming out of the WH? Ya, I think I'll pass on that action.



I have zero aspirations of a career in politics. I like to be involved locally, and that's about it.



I'm telling you that it matters on the biggest scale also.
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Bro, except the example you used was me getting political myself and taking it all the way to the Commander in Chief. My vote matters. I won't deny that. And writing to Congressman and **** like that might do some good I guess. I don't really know. At the end of the day though, getting political myself? No way. It's a big web of scumbags scratching one another's backs and my moral compass is too in sync to even remotely get near something like that without barfing all over their $5,000 suits.

As far as hos go, I'll stock the stable. Trust me, they'll be thoroughbreds.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
Get a grip.
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OK, so you've demonstrated that I'm wrong is saying you just don't care. Nobody who just doesn't care would write as detailed a rebuttal as all that. And as I process the available information, I'll drop you from my list of suspects who are either cement contractors signed up and pouring concrete for the Data Center, or a wannabe employee there.

Looking at the further discussion here, it's likely that you do feel you can't make a difference in a large scale way. But that is where I think you devalue your actual importance. I get to meet politicians, corporate honchos, and government bureaucrats sometimes, and I'm not being hostile to them when I do. I smile, and shake hands, and I even get to say something sometimes. I send emails to their offices, and sometimes I even get something in reply that doesn't look like computer-programmed hash with my name in the blank after "Dear". Orrin Hatch I know calls precinct people, and now I'm one. My sister also gets through to him sometimes. The dude is doing his best to win the conservatives back, and it's changing the whole message about what he's doing for us.

More than anything else we need reasonable normal moderate folks more than extremist wackos getting on the phones.

Sorry you missed my points about these sorta theoretical philosophical "rights" about how the government should treat people as being meaningful to you. General rights are all we have to protect us when things go wrong somehow.
 
Despite reading the article in the first post and a few subsequent articles between then and now, I don't think I ever realized how truly massive this baby is because the pictures never did it justice. This sums it pretty well:

https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2013/07/nsas-big-dig/67406/

The NSA's New Spy Facilities are 7 Times Bigger Than the Pentagon
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Damn. Can you tour it right now at all or is it already on total lockdown? I want to appreciate the size of the prying eyes in my backyard in person.
 
Duck Rodgers said:
Despite reading the article in the first post and a few subsequent articles between then and now, I don't think I ever realized how truly massive this baby is because the pictures never did it justice. This sums it pretty well:

https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2013/07/nsas-big-dig/67406/



Damn. Can you tour it right now at all or is it already on total lockdown? I want to appreciate the size of the prying eyes in my backyard in person.
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so here's the latest fund-raiser Rand Paul has sent out:

President Obama's NSA was recently caught spying, collecting, and storing data on virtually every American citizen.

And some are now saying the "ObamaCare" database may end up being even worse.

But I'm afraid the worst spying and data collection scheme of them all could turn out to be the massive National ID database buried deep within the so-called "Immigration Reform Bill."

That's why it's vital you read John Tate's email below and take action IMMEDIATELY.

You see, while I support true immigration reform, the truth is this legislation fails to secure our border and is a replay of the same failed reform schemes you and I have seen over the years.

And given Barack Obama's hunger for more information on the American people, you can be sure his cronies will abuse the National ID database in the same manner the NSA and IRS have.

That's why every American who values liberty -- no matter what they think of the other provisions of the bill -- should oppose this National ID scheme.

So please read John's email and sign your "No Database/No National ID" Directive TODAY.

In Liberty,

Rand Paul, MD
U.S. Senator (R-KY)

Campaign
for Liberty
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It's not enough to have every last bit of personal information on file. . . . they want you stamped with an inventory number.
 
Beantown said:
Do I really care if a bunch of government people know I'm on Jazzfanz all day long?
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my NSA buddy has a list of potential terrorists ranked by correlations between interest in athletics and innerwebz ramblin's about politics. He says he knows a lot of feigned liberal "handles", particularly "made-up personas". Anyone pretending to be a California resident and a Utah Jazz fan is automatically gonna be at the head of his list of demented terrorists.

just a heads-up, bro.

My own list of correlations from the infinite supply of facts the database comprises has you pegged as DutchJazzer's alt.

And, to drive my point home, I actually have a job, a wife, and kids and usually exhibit pretty boring mundane behaviors like showing up at work and paying my bills. A literal stiff in terms of creative imagination. . . . . and if I can do "correlations" like that, there's gotta be no limit on the possible "correlations" an analyst cooped up inside the data center with impatient supervisors looking for "leads" will be able to see.

Used to be, people with the power of life and death or incarceration had to come out of their darkened rooms and tell a judge why they needed to search your personal effects. . . . . probable cause, it was called. . . . and they had to charge you with a specific crime before they could lock you up, and you could get a lawyer to make them prove it.

while it might be "nice" to trust the government in all it's infinite "wisdom", experience across history has shown power like this draws out the worst people to fill the ranks. . . . people who are sociopaths. . . . who will do anything for no reason at all, just because they "can".

And that is why we need a stronger Bill of Rights today than ever before. . . . and why we must reject the convenient claims of statists for their power grabs.
 
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E.J. Wells said:
Did I mention that I hate this thread? Because I do.
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yes you did, sir. Because you are you.

I hate it because I'm gonna hafta run for governor so I can have the Utah National Guard take possession of the Data Center and shut it down, saying "Not In Utah".

Orrin Hatch is proud of his "Bridge to Nowhere" in the Oquirrh hills as the crowning achievement of his porkbarrel career in the Senate since 1976, but he's an idiot of the highest rank. . . uhhmmm . . . stink.

The reason why the Data Center cannot stand in Utah is because the Utah Constitution guarandamntees the security of private matters, and the damn Federal government cannot override out personal rights under any pretext. The reason the original colonies limited the federal powers by agreeing that the federal Constitution narrowly defines the Federal powers, and the Tenth Amendment reserves to the states, or to the people, all powers not expressly granted to the Federal government, is precisely to keep the Federal government from imposing this kind of tyranny.
 
babe said:
yes you did, sir. Because you are you.

I hate it because I'm gonna hafta run for governor so I can have the Utah National Guard take possession of the Data Center and shut it down, saying "Not In Utah".

Orrin Hatch is proud of his "Bridge to Nowhere" in the Oquirrh hills as the crowning achievement of his porkbarrel career in the Senate since 1976, but he's an idiot of the highest rank. . . uhhmmm . . . stink.

The reason why the Data Center cannot stand in Utah is because the Utah Constitution guarandamntees the security of private matters, and the damn Federal government cannot override out personal rights under any pretext. The reason the original colonies limited the federal powers by agreeing that the federal Constitution narrowly defines the Federal powers, and the Tenth Amendment reserves to the states, or to the people, all powers not expressly granted to the Federal government, is precisely to keep the Federal government from imposing this kind of tyranny.
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Good luck with that. I'm sure the Utah Constitution is going to win out.
 
babe said:
Anyone pretending to be a California resident and a Utah Jazz fan is automatically gonna be at the head of his list.

.
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Hey, I resemble that remark! Just because I'm exiled in CA for the time being doesn't mean I can't be a law-abiding Jazz fan.
 
No NSA thread is complete without this scene from the greatest movie of all-time:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrOZllbNarw
 
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