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Weather Network ****s on Breitbart climate article

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Well, there are quite a few power plants running on trash heaps built to enable gas recovery.. Why not? I am a rancher, but not the feedlot sort. Those feedlots are huge piles of dung. They should do something with it.

Overall, cows eat grass and produce food and gas, and some fertilizer. They are beneficial grazers on most types of forage, even forests. In forests they eat the accumulating undergrowth that sustains huge wildfires, and it could be argued they could reduce actual greenhouse gas emissions by temporarily confining some of the fuel in body mass, food, or fertizer. In grassland areas of California, Nevada and Utah, they are effective at reducing wildfire potential.

Feedlot production operations use a lot of grain produced with lots of machine work, lots of artificial, chemical-origin fertilizer, and the cows have to be heavily dosed with antibiotics. I think there is a good argument for turning back to range grazing, grass-fed beef production.

It's a cool idea but the trash power plants aren't all that efficient or economical. They're small scale and have a tendency to break down. The gas stream and chemical composition is inconsistent, which creates a ton of problems. There is a reason most of the garbage dumps required to collect and control volatile's (over 50 megagrams/year) opt to flare them instead of producing energy.

The cow **** pits in California might provide a better and more consistent gas stream, but the new reg proposals I'm seeing are on the catalytic conversion side aimed at the mega-barns only instead of power generation. They are entirely 100% cost increase with no offsetting commercial benefit from what I can see, but the studies claim they are a very low-cost reduction target (we base our reduction regulations in large part on price per ton of pollutants).
 
Frank, get outta here.

This forum isn't for people who know the facts.

How we gonna have any fun blowing brain farts all over one another and striking matches?
 
All these years I thought Frank was a labtech at Nelson, not for a guvmint regulatory authority.

sheeeesshhh Just when you think you know sompthin about sumbody. . . .
 
It's a cool idea but the trash power plants aren't all that efficient or economical. They're small scale and have a tendency to break down. The gas stream and chemical composition is inconsistent, which creates a ton of problems. There is a reason most of the garbage dumps required to collect and control volatile's (over 50 megagrams/year) opt to flare them instead of producing energy.

The cow **** pits in California might provide a better and more consistent gas stream, but the new reg proposals I'm seeing are on the catalytic conversion side aimed at the mega-barns only instead of power generation. They are entirely 100% cost increase with no offsetting commercial benefit from what I can see, but the studies claim they are a very low-cost reduction target (we base our reduction regulations in large part on price per ton of pollutants).

Well, then. . . . put that flare where it can boil water and co-locate a MSF desalination plant using water from the sewage plant. Irrigate some roadside shrubs or flowers with recycle water.
 
I'm calling on TRUE AMERICANS like me to grab yer guns and take up arms against this weather!
 
global-warming_o_1005675.jpg
 
Well, then. . . . put that flare where it can boil water and co-locate a MSF desalination plant using water from the sewage plant. Irrigate some roadside shrubs or flowers with recycle water.

Entropy, location, etc. etc. If power generation alone isn't economical then pumping sea water and desalinating isn't going to be either.

One thing I failed to mention was that these plants aren't large scale enough to afford the pollution controls that a coal fired power plant can.

WTS, you know I agree with you about a massive western water project, as well as a mid-west program. I wouldn't mind some kind of program of paying every Californian to put solar panels on their houses and making a deal with the [already heavily price regulated] power companies to push excess power into desalination plants and pumps. Free power for the citizens, water for the farmers (lower food prices for all, more economically competitive US markets), better riparian zones upstream, less litigation costs between state fights over water... we could even create lakes and dams that recoup at least a portion of the pumping energy while also creating new habitat.
 
dailywire is considered fake news by some. but yeah do research and see if what they claim is true

As 2016 comes to a close, it's important to realize that the left's continuing hysteria over global warming still does not match reality. The current facts show that there are not rising temperatures at alarming levels and, if anything, the planet seems to be experiencing more of a cooling phase than a warming phase.

Here are five pieces of news that show that global warming is not causing armageddon.

1. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's (NOAA) graphs showing accelerated increases in temperature appear to be fabricated. Tony Heller at the RealClimateScience blog points out that NOAA admits that 42 percent of their 2016 monthly station data was missing so they used falsified data instead, and that NOAA needlessly adjusted their data by 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit – the same amount the agency claims temperatures have increased by since 1900.

This is not the first time NOAA has been accused of data tampering. Earlier in 2016, agency whistleblowers alleged that the agency had "rushed" a study published to debunk the global warming pause. Rep. Lamar Smith (R-TX) grew frustrated with NOAA dragging their feet on producing documents relevant to the study.

"Data consist of facts, and facts can be cherry-picked to yield a desired effect," the Washington Times editorial board wrote in March. "In the NOAA study, researchers found that ocean temperatures measured by ships were warmer than those recorded by buoys anchored in place, and scientists 'developed a method to correct the difference between ship and buoy measurements.' Ship’s engines, however, can heat nearby water and produce false readings. By including those values, critics contend, the agency may have effectively erased evidence of the global warming pause."

2. The evidence points to record amounts of cold weather. Data from the Rutgers University Climate Lab shows that the autumn snow cover has been increasing for 40 years, with 2016's snow cover level being the second highest amount (2014 was the highest). Additionally, former NASA scientist Dr. Roy Spencer has noted that the first week of the new year will be met with 48 states being below freezing levels, which he says will be record amounts of cold. It's hard to see how both of these would occur if global warming is rising at an accelerated rate.

3. The polar bear population seems to be thriving. One of the ways that the global warming alarmists have been promoting their agenda has been through fearmongering about polar bears supposedly being driven to extinction from all the melting ice. But reality tells a different story. Canadian scientists published a study in Ecology and Evolution finding "no reliable evidence to support the contention that polar bears are currently experiencing a climate crisis." This is right in line with evidence showing that polar bears have thrived even when there wasn't any ice in the Arctic and that the polar bear population overall has been on the upswing.

4. There were 50 peer-reviewed scientific papers in 2016 that concluded there was not wide-scale global warming. In fact, the papers showed that there was more of a cooling trend than a warming trend, and in places where there was warming, it wasn't anything out of the ordinary. The scientific literature has been compiled here.

5. The weather trends don't indicate that anything severe is occurring. The Fabius Maximus blog has compiled a list of these trends that include:

- No upswing in hurricanes.
- Slow increase of ocean heat content since 1970.
- Global surface temperatures being relatively flat for 13 years.
- Lower troposphere temperatures based on satellite data.

The evidence simply does not support the global warming alarmist's contention that rising temperatures are going to lead to disaster for the planet.

sauce:https://www.dailywire.com/news/1197...m_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro
 
Jeff Masters ranks in my eyes as a top notch scientist. I saw him change his mind and get on the AGW train when he sold controlling interest of his operation to WeatherChannel after that was acquired by interests committed to AGW "science".

https://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/weather-underground-bought-by-ibm

But nevertheless, they do compile a lot of charts and Jeff makes a strong case on the facts that 2016 has set a lot of upside records. Despite practically no solar cycle sunspots. In fact, some scientists are now asserting that the sun phase is actually the cause of this year's higher temps because of no sunspots as expected, but very high emissions of other forms of energy, particularly IR.

I like the research that is going on. It is getting better. Better information means a lot. And scientists in the field are sxpostulating a lot of refined theoretical processes and tracking them much better than ever before.

https://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=3532
 
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seriously whether "man made climate change" is real or not.
THIS IS WHAT I AM AGAINST
and this is a world wide phenomenon with the Paris accord. government should not tell me what to do

EPA To Alaskans In Sub-Zero Temps: Stop Burning Wood To Keep Warm
In Alaska’s interior, where it can reach -50 degrees Fahrenheit in winter, the EPA wants people to stop burning wood. But it's just about their only feasible way to stay warm.


In Jack London’s famous short story, “To Build A Fire,” a man freezes to death because he underestimates the cold in America’s far north and cannot build a proper fire. The unnamed man—a chechaquo, what Alaska natives call newcomers—is accompanied by a wolf-dog that knows the danger of the cold and is wholly indifferent to the fate of the man. “This man did not know cold. Possibly, all the generations of his ancestry had been ignorant of cold, of real cold, of cold 107 degrees below freezing point. But the dog knew; all its ancestry knew, and it had inherited the knowledge.”

If only the bureaucrats in Washington DC knew what the wolf-dog knew. But alas, now comes the federal government to tell the inhabitants of Alaska’s interior that, really, they should not be building fires to keep themselves warm during the winter. The New York Times reports the Environmental Protection Agency could soon declare the Alaskan cities of Fairbanks and North Pole, which have a combined population of about 100,000, in “serious” noncompliance of the Clean Air Act early next year.

Like most people in Alaska, the residents of those frozen cities are burning wood to keep themselves warm this winter. Smoke from wood-burning stoves increases small-particle pollution, which settles in low-lying areas and can be breathed in. The EPA thinks this is a big problem. Eight years ago, the agency ruled that wide swaths of the most densely populated parts of the region were in “non-attainment” of federal air quality standards.

That prompted state and local authorities to look for ways to cut down on pollution from wood-burning stoves, including the possibility of fining residents who burn wood. After all, a declaration of noncompliance from the EPA would have enormous economic implications for the region, like the loss of federal transportation funding.

The problem is, there’s no replacement for wood-burning stoves in Alaska’s interior. Heating oil is too expensive for a lot of people, and natural gas isn’t available. So they’ve got to burn something. The average low temperature in Fairbanks in December is 13 degrees below zero. In January, it’s 17 below. During the coldest days of winter, the high temperature averages -2 degrees, and it can get as cold as -60. This is not a place where you play games with the cold. If you don’t keep the fire lit, you die. For people of modest means, and especially for the poor, that means you burn wood in a stove—and you keep that fire lit around the clock.
As Necessary As Food And Water

Growing up in Alaska, I learned this from an early age. (My father, in fact, was a chechaquo. As a white kid growing up in Alaska native villages in the 1950s, the native kids would call him and his siblings chechaquos as a kind of juvenile epithet.) Like many families in Alaska, then and now, we weren’t wealthy and had no other means of staying warm besides burning wood. As kids, my brothers and I would spend long hours stacking cords of wood and, when we were older, felling trees, cutting them into logs, and hauling them back to the house. It wasn’t romantic, it was simply part of life in the far north: firewood was as natural and necessary as food and water.

For most Alaskans, it still is. Replacing wood-burning stoves, especially in the state’s interior, isn’t easily done. Ever since the EPA’s ruling in 2008, local and state efforts to address air pollution caused by wood stoves hasn’t solved the problem. As the editors of the Fairbanks newspaper recently noted, “The borough faces two unpalatable alternatives: More stringent restrictions on home heating devices that could impact residents’ ability to heat their homes affordably, or choosing to stand pat and accept a host of costly economic sanctions and health effects to residents.”

Local residents have been assured that of course the government means well. According to the Times, the EPA official in charge claims that “his agency was definitely not trying to take away anyone’s wood stove, or make life more expensive.” But he also said the EPA’s job is to enforce air quality standards set by the Clean Air Act. The implication is clear: these wood stoves are going to be a problem.
‘He Was Without Imagination’

This of course is a ridiculous situation. The EPA has no business telling Alaskans they shouldn’t burn wood to keep warm in the depths of winter. For one thing, concern over air pollution from wood smoke is misplaced. The high levels of particulate matter in places like Fairbanks in January are not the same thing as smog in Los Angeles. The areas affected by pollution from wood stoves are relatively small because they’re the result of something called inversion. At -30 degrees Fahrenheit, smoke doesn’t rise. It drops down to ground level and settles in low-lying areas. But this doesn’t happen city-wide, it happens on a single block or street.

That doesn’t mean people living on that street aren’t affected. But it does mean we aren’t talking about pollution-laced fog descending on an entire city; we’re talking about burning wood to stay warm. If that means you must endure some air pollution from the smoke from time to time, then that’s the price of living in a place like Alaska’s frozen interior. (Full disclosure: I plan to build a cabin in Alaska someday, and I plan to heat it with a wood stove, fully aware that doing so might sometimes subject me to higher levels of particulate pollution. I say it’s worth the risk.)

The problem with the EPA bullying the people of Fairbanks about their wood stoves is that the federal government thinks this is a problem that can be solved. What would the EPA have Alaskans do, use solar panels to heat their homes in winter?

In his story, Jack London wrote of the chechaquo that “The trouble with him was that he was without imagination.” That is, he simply didn’t understand the cold, or where exactly he was:

"He was quick and alert in the things of life, but only in the things, and not in the significances. Fifty degrees below zero meant 80 odd degrees of frost. Such facts impressed him as being cold and uncomfortable, and that was all. It did not lead him to meditate upon his frailty as a creature of temperature, and upon man’s frailty in general, able only to live within certain narrow limits of heat and cold; and from there on, it did not lead him to the conjectural field of immortality and man’s place in the universe."

Of the earnest bureaucrats at the EPA fretting over the smoke from Alaskans’ wood stoves in the dead of winter, we might say something similar: they understand facts but not the significance of them. Burning wood when it’s -20 degrees outside will indeed cause the smoke to descend, and breathing such air is admittedly not very healthy. What the EPA doesn’t accept, or even grasp, is man’s place in the universe: in the face of Alaska’s deadly cold interior, there’s only so much we can do. So we build a fire.


meanwhile every weekend those hollywood celebrity douchebags who support this ridiculous climate change storries go on superyacht for a weekend of fun which burns gazillions of gallons of fuel. all for leisure

meanwhile people who need to survive get effed in the a by the EPA


28F2989200000578-3091601-Deep_in_thought_The_star_sipped_on_a_hot_drink_as_he_gazed_out_t-m-13_1432233295672.jpg
 
the above thing is exactly why i am a skeptic.
the UN and gov don't care about human live, they want to lump everyone in big cities so they can control the population more!

a world wide globalist third reich ooh wait fourth reich
 
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seriously whether "man made climate change" is real or not.
THIS IS WHAT I AM AGAINST
and this is a world wide phenomenon with the Paris accord. government should not tell me what to do

EPA To Alaskans In Sub-Zero Temps: Stop Burning Wood To Keep Warm
In Alaska’s interior, where it can reach -50 degrees Fahrenheit in winter, the EPA wants people to stop burning wood. But it's just about their only feasible way to stay warm.





meanwhile every weekend those hollywood celebrity douchebags who support this ridiculous climate change storries go on superyacht for a weekend of fun which burns gazillions of gallons of fuel. all for leisure

meanwhile people who need to survive get effed in the a by the EPA


28F2989200000578-3091601-Deep_in_thought_The_star_sipped_on_a_hot_drink_as_he_gazed_out_t-m-13_1432233295672.jpg

To put it in JF moderator terms, the EPA has become not in the habit of granting exemptions.

Utah has faced several exemption changes recently that many do not see as even close to reasonable. I wish I could say more in detail about this but I can't.
 
Judith Curry, one of climate science's most vocal critics, is leaving academe because of what she calls the poisonous nature of the scientific discussion around human-caused global warming.

Curry, 63, is retiring from her tenured position as a professor at the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology. She's instead going to focus on growing her private business, Climate Forecast Applications Network, which provides insights into climate and weather risks for agriculture and energy companies.

The climatologist, who distinguished herself in the field decades ago with research into the Arctic and the causes of the climate feedback that have shaped the region, writes a blog called Climate Etc. It is by turns academic and inflammatory.

There she occasionally mocks what she calls "climate alarmists" who say time is almost out unless humanity weans itself off fossil fuels. In her blog and on Twitter, she has also criticized some of the scientists, including Pennsylvania State University climatologist Michael Mann and Harvard University climate historian Naomi Oreskes, who have become leading voices for climate action. She has testified in front of Congress, boosted by politicians who use her work to argue that environmental regulations and a scaling down of fossil fuel use will be ineffective. Her work is frequently invoked by climate skeptics and denialists. Congressional Democrats, displeased with her conclusions, have investigated the source of her funding.

Curry actually believes, along with the vast majority of climate scientists, that humans are warming the planet, and was even an outspoken advocate of the issue during the George W. Bush years. She was among the first to connect global warming to hurricanes, for example, publishing an influential study in Science in 2006. But where she breaks with the majority opinion is over just how much humans are actually causing global temperatures to rise.

Where many scientists say that humans are the primary cause of warming, Curry believes natural forces play a larger role. She also believes that uncertainty around climate models means we don't have to act so quickly and that current plans would do little to mitigate warming. She also questions the assertion made by a majority of climate scientists who believe humans have significantly contributed to climate change. In the Obama years, she has become a contrarian of sorts, often criticizing those who rely on climate models to prove that humans are warming the planet at an unprecedented rate.

In announcing her retirement, Curry wrote about what she called her "growing disenchantment with universities, the academic field of climate science and scientists." She said a deciding factor for leaving the ivory tower was that "I no longer know what to say to students and postdocs regarding how to navigate the CRAZINESS in the field of climate science," adding that research and funding for it are highly politicized.

In an interview with E&E News, Curry said she would like to see a greater focus on the uncertainties of climate science and a better exploration of them through scientific debate free of politics.

"Once you understand the scientific uncertainties, the present policy path that we're on doesn't make a lot of sense," she said. "We need to open up policy dialogue to a bigger solution space. So I'm just looking to open up the dialogue and to provoke people into thinking."

Curry, in general, believes that the policies undertaken by the Obama administration won't do much to reduce global warming levels. That has made her the target of scientists who accuse her of aiding the climate denialists who oppose the environmental regulations of the last eight years and are eager to dismantle them under President-elect Donald Trump. Curry is not convinced that Trump will damage the climate science field, which she said has gone in the wrong direction under Obama.

"Once we get over this little bump of activism, if the Trump administration will put us on a slightly reassuring and saner footing, that will allow all this to die down," she said. "We can always hope."

Curry's departure from academe will weaken the field of climate science, which needs people to ask hard questions that differ from the mainstream, said Roger Pielke Jr., a professor at the University of Colorado who previously worked with Curry and recently switched fields from climate science to sports governance after facing intense pressure of his own. Curry has consistently been willing to stick out her neck to ask questions that other scientists avoid for reasons of political expediency, he said. Purposely choosing a "different song sheet to sing off of" has earned her an unfair level of criticism, Pielke said.

"If you only look at her academic career, absent the glossy overlay of the climate debate, you would say this is a pretty distinguished academic who had a pretty successful career," he said. "The facts that she was excoriated by her peers, smeared and so on just illustrates having a tenured position isn't a guarantee of academic freedom."

Certainly, neither Curry nor Pielke has sat on the sidelines during the wars over climate science. Both have been accused of aggressively attacking those who critique their work. In an interview, Curry accused Mann and Oreskes of inciting what she says is a vocal minority of scientists who pressure anyone with a conclusion that breaks from the notion that extreme action is needed now to mitigate the worst consequences of human-caused global warming.

For his part, Mann said climate science would be stronger without Curry. He said she routinely engaged in character attack, "confusionism and denialism" and eroded scientific discussion.

"She has played a particularly pernicious role in the climate change denial campaign, laundering standard denier talking points but appearing to grant them greater authority courtesy of the academic positions she has held and the meager but nonetheless legitimate scientific work that she has published in the past," he said. "Much of what I have seen from her in recent years is boilerplate climate change denial drivel."

Curry has no plans to simply shrug off the fight, after publishing 186 articles and two books, and she intends to use her blog as a place to advise young scientists trying to navigate the field. She said she is looking forward to life after academe by taking her skill set into the real world, and using climate modeling to better prepare companies as well as developing nations. In her final media interview as an academic, Curry touched on where climate science is now headed and what she feels it needs to thrive in the future.

Where is the academic discussion of climate science at this current point? Is it just so polarized that we're never going to come back from it?

The point is, and I don't know how big it is, is what I would call the nerdy middle. These are the people who focus on one little piece of the puzzle and they just focus on their own research and they feel vaguely uneasy about all this noise and all this stuff going on and they stay out of the public debate and they acknowledge as a scientist, "I really can't say anything about this because my research is just one little narrow piece and I haven't taken the time to critically evaluate some of the big issues that are out there in the public arena."

I don't know how big that pool of scientists is, but I think it's pretty big. As it becomes more polarized, we need to protect the nerdy middle, just let them get on with their work. So I'm worried that what I would call the activism, especially on the alarm side, is growing. The people on the other side tend to be the more hardcore scientists anyways who are just sticking to the science and they see how people like me are treated, so they are not going to go there.

What does climate science need in the coming decades to get to where you want to see it?

We've lost a generation of climate dynamicists. These are the people who develop theories and dig into data on the system and really try to find out how the system works. We've ceded all that to climate models, and the climate models are nowhere near good enough. The climate models were designed to test sensitivity to CO2. They don't even do a very good job at that, all the issues related to the sun/climate connections, decadal to millennial scale, circulation and oscillation in the ocean and the deep carbon cycle in the ocean. Some of these things we fundamentally don't know enough about. We need a new infusion from math and physics into our field to shore up the dwindling climate dynamics.

This is what worries me. You just need to cut the funding 80 to 90 percent, everybody go away and then start over with a new generation of math and physicists. I don't think it's that bad, but it is pretty bad. It's the older generation that tends to more skeptical. They come from the old school of climate dynamics and the real fundamental fluid dynamics. It's really hard mathematically; if you're going to major in atmospheric science or climate science, there are lots easier paths to take than that hardcore fluid dynamics path. So we're breeding a generation of climate scientists who analyze climate model outputs who come up with sexy conclusions and get published in Nature like, 'We won't be able to grow grapes for wine in California in 2100.' That kind of stuff, it gets headlines, it gets grants. It feeds our reputation. It's cheap, easy science. It's fundamentally not useful because it rests on inadequate climate models, especially when you're trying to look at regional climate change. I call that climate model taxonomy. This is where the field is going; we've lost a generation of climate dynamists, and that's what worries me greatly.

In the next few years, four to eight or even longer, what do you want to see in the field of climate science; what are you hoping happens? You do believe humans are changing the climate, correct?

Yes, but how much they're changing the climate, we don't know. Yes, they do contribute to climate change; very few people would question that. The question is, how much relatively to natural variability? Because we don't understand natural variability that well, we don't have a convincing answer for that. Better understanding of natural variability, particularly show our climate connections, but even how volcanoes both above ground and underwater influence the climate, particularly the long-term ocean oscillations and how the chaotic ocean interacts with chaotic atmosphere. That's reasonably complex, and we don't understand that.

We need to go back to basics to get the fundamental interactions between the ocean and atmosphere correct, because this, to me, is what's driving the whole thing. In climate modeling, all the eggs were put in one basket, and we've gotten as far as we're going to get along that particular path. We need to start over with a new path for climate modeling.

Do you feel people are simplifying your work to justify inaction, or to use it to attack people they don't agree with politically? I saw Larry the Cable Guy refer to you the other day on Twitter in a conversation with a New York Times climate reporter. It was him saying, "We don't know what's happening, so what are we going to do about it?"

That's not an inappropriate use of my work. We don't really understand what's happening, and it's a wicked problem. The one thing we know is that the commitments we've made, in Paris, will probably prevent about two-tenths of a degree of warming by the end of the 21st century. What is the point of that? You have to fundamentally ask, are we facing risks in the 21st century, and if they're really bad risks, what you're proposing isn't going to help, so now what?

Nobody's asking the now what to reduce vulnerability to extreme weather events and to rising sea level, trying to address those problems in ways that don't rely on humans actually changing the climate, because it doesn't seem like that is going to work at least on the time scales of the 21st century, and this is even if you don't believe the climate models. We need to rethink this problem. I'm intensely interested in trying to help developing and undeveloped countries deal with their climate vulnerabilities, but throwing money at their leaders with massive levels of corruption and where the money gets distributed to friends and relatives and never accomplishes anything. We've seen that over and over again in some of these countries.

My way of looking at it is that the evidence that we do have leads me to think that things are not as bad as what they're predicting. However, if they are right — and they could be, I acknowledge that — if they are right, the policies we've put into place are woefully inadequate. I can hope that the more pragmatic people that Trump is appointing will come up with more pragmatic ways of dealing with the vulnerabilities that we do have to climate change, whether it's caused by humans or it's caused naturally, and how we should deal with the potential risk of a lot of warming from humans.

.
 
i see you have yet to take the RED PILL!!!!

bet you think don lennon is real journalism. and nick van jones

No, I dont watch any of those. The three of them are all commentators though. They do very little journalism if any. Some dude being an *** to a guest on his show, not letting them talk, aggressively trying to pick point of controversy is not good journalism if you call it journalism at all. It is loud obnoxious people using poor journalism techniques.
 
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