What’s the point of this season?

[LogGrad98]

Great question, One Love.

I'd postulate that the point of this season is to distract us from the real questions, such as, what's the point of us? Why are we here? Where are we going? When's the next game?

On a cosmic scale the only one of those questions that matters is the last one. And I think it's Friday.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

In the past year or so, the Jazz have traded away Mitchell, Gobert, Bogdanovic, O'Neale, Conley and Gay. In return, they've brought back mostly young prospects, future assets and reclamation prospects. In other words, all the Jazz have really done so far is tear down. They're in the beginning stage of the rebuilding process. They need to put enough talent on the floor to be a coherent team, so they can evaluate their talent. However, I'd still expect them to trade away Olynyk, Clarkson and any other guy that nets a solid offer this season.

 

[KqWIN]

If we do hit the "tank" button it will be easier this year with everyone basically trying to win outside of Portland and Washington. I think we might be more likely to make a trade that has us head in the other direction to the play-in... depending on what it is and if it is a long-term move or cheap move I am cool either way. Hardy will figure some things out and it will at least look more intelligent than it did last night.

We never really hit the "win" button this summer. We traded away a bunch of rotation players from a mediocre team and didn't really replace them. John Collins is a nice player and I've always been a supporter, but even I can see the awkward fit with this roster. What are we actually trying to accomplish? If we were actually trying to win something....even a small goal like making the play in, we should have gotten Morris, Tyus, or Brogdon. I feel like it would be too late to go through this tough part of the schedule, realize we're not good enough, and then pivot to those guys. If we wanted to do that, it should have already been done and not when we're 7-13 or whatever. The only logical pivot the Jazz can make is the other direction.

As much as I loathe this kind of fan, I'm going to join the "play the young guys" crowd. If we don't, what are we actually trying to do? Live off the feel good vibe of last year?

 

[fishonjazz]

In return, they've brought back mostly young prospects, future assets and reclamation prospects.

Lauri doesn't fit into those categories though.

 

[fishonjazz]

What are we actually trying to accomplish? If we were actually trying to win something....even a small goal like making the play in, we should have gotten Morris, Tyus, or Brogdon. I feel like it would be too late to go through this tough part of the schedule, realize we're not good enough, and then pivot to those guys. If we wanted to do that, it should have already been done and not when we're 7-13 or whatever. The only logical pivot the Jazz can make is the other direction.

Ya it doesn't make any sense. but dont be surprised if that is exactly what happens. Remember last season?

We traded away basically all our good players (tank)
Won hella games (playoffs baby)
traded aways some dudes ( who knows what we are doing at this point)
then rested starters and played scrubs at the very end (tank)

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Lauri doesn't fit into those categories though.

That's why I used the word 'mostly.' He's really the only exception.

 

[KqWIN]

Ya it doesn't make any sense. but dont be surprised if that is exactly what happens. Remember last season?

We traded away basically all our good players (tank)
Won hella games (playoffs baby)
traded aways some dudes ( who knows what we are doing at this point)
then rested starters and played scrubs at the very end (tank)

I’m on record saying that this season could end up just like last season in the same pattern. But I don’t feel like that’s some genius hot take. The roster is pretty much the same, or at least on the same level. Is there a good reason to think that this year will be different?

The difference this year is that the schedule is very hard at the beginning and we won’t get warm and fuzzy feelings for not completely sucking. So the turn to tanking could happen earlier.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

We never really hit the "win" button this summer. We traded away a bunch of rotation players from a mediocre team and didn't really replace them. John Collins is a nice player and I've always been a supporter, but even I can see the awkward fit with this roster. What are we actually trying to accomplish? If we were actually trying to win something....even a small goal like making the play in, we should have gotten Morris, Tyus, or Brogdon. I feel like it would be too late to go through this tough part of the schedule, realize we're not good enough, and then pivot to those guys. If we wanted to do that, it should have already been done and not when we're 7-13 or whatever. The only logical pivot the Jazz can make is the other direction.

As much as I loathe this kind of fan, I'm going to join the "play the young guys" crowd. If we don't, what are we actually trying to do? Live off the feel good vibe of last year?

Oh man… didn’t think you’d be a tank commander… I still haven’t decided where I fall but this is surprising (not wrong and I agree on the pg thing).

I do think an alternative fact pattern is Ainge and Hardy were like “the nba is positionless and we will Xs and Os our way around this”. Kinda high on their own supply type of thing.

We didn’t hit the win now button or the tank button we pushed the “shrug this player is pretty good and cheap” button.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If the goal was playoffs we probably needed to call Jrue's bluff and done the trade without the assurances of re-signing. If the goal is a top 5 pick we will likely need to move off of a vet or two but nothing wild... trade KO, THT or Sexton, play Taylor and Sensabaugh in any roster holes that creates. Probably enough to land top (bottom) 5.

 

[KqWIN]

Oh man… didn’t think you’d be a tank commander… I still haven’t decided where I fall but this is surprising (not wrong and I agree on the pg thing).

I do think an alternative fact pattern is Ainge and Hardy were like “the nba is positionless and we will Xs and Os our way around this”. Kinda high on their own supply type of thing.

We didn’t hit the win now button or the tank button we pushed the “shrug this player is pretty good and cheap” button.

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Yeah…if you really think about what the Jazz accomplished this season, all they did is get John Collins. I think it’s good value in vacuum, but that’s about the extent to what they did. Turning cap space into John Collins (on a contract he would have not gotten in FA) is not exactly a masterpiece. The value of this off season really comes down to the rookies they drafted, so might as well see what we got and invest in them.

We can talk about the tanking/win now dilemma forever….but the fact of the matter is that the FO put this team in a **** position to win anything. There’s a reason why you play the games, but there’s also a reason why almost no one had us even making the play in.

They hit no buttons….I truly feel like the FO was happy to coast of the good vibes of last year.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah…if you really think about what the Jazz accomplished this season, all they did is get John Collins. I think it’s good value in vacuum, but that’s about the extent to what they did. Turning cap space into John Collins (on a contract he would have not gotten in FA) is not exactly a masterpiece. The value of this off season really comes down to the rookies they drafted, so might as well see what we got and invest in them.

We can talk about the tanking/win now dilemma forever….but the fact of the matter is that the FO put this team in a **** position to win anything. There’s a reason why you play the games, but there’s also a reason why almost no one had us even making the play in.

They hit no buttons….I truly feel like the FO was happy to coast of the good vibes of last year.

I have an analogy I will perfect before throwing out... but I think it applies but only @infection will like it.

The other "addition" (DL Alec Burks style) is bringing back JC on a value deal... the cap space was part of that too. Its just value hunting without much of a blue print... "why this house got 7 bathrooms and 2 laundry rooms but only 2 bedrooms... bruh there was a sale on bathtubs... we crushed it!!!"

 

[KqWIN]

I have an analogy I will perfect before throwing out... but I think it applies but only @infection will like it.

The other "addition" (DL Alec Burks style) is bringing back JC on a value deal... the cap space was part of that too. Its just value hunting without much of a blue print... "why this house got 7 bathrooms and 2 laundry rooms but only 2 bedrooms... bruh there was a sale on bathtubs... we crushed it!!!"

Yeah that was a good piece of work with JC's contract....but still haha.

Maybe I'm being too harsh on the FO for being "idle". The truth might actually be that they tried for some bigger fish and just ended up failing. We know they wanted Porzingis and Holiday, who knows what other stars Danny almost acquired. I think it's a totally legit strategy to say, "we're only trading for a big fish"....but when you strike out, you strike out and you have this unspectacular team. So the failure might not be from coasting, but just not being able to score from the goal line.

I think we will sit in limbo until we find our big fish trade. Having Lauri makes it fairly difficult to tank, but Lauri is also the guy you tank for so I'm not too bothered. But the clock is ticking and while stars seem to move like crazy these days who knows who will actually become available.

 

[outerspacefan]

This season probably will end up being as pointless as last season.
Hopefully we will be as bad as we appear to be so the full tank just prevails on it's own (de)merit in spite of Jazz brass horrendous decision making and lack of balls.

 

[FrenchJazzFa]

Let's wait 10 more games before we know. If we really bad, then go full tank. Trade KO, Sexton or JC and go for 20 win.

 

[Keefe]

I’m sitting here watching the Spurs already looking good to go with Wemby and I’m wondering if weren’t going to be good for 2-3 years, why didn’t we tank properly last year for a chance at Wemby?

We’re we too scared to upset Adam Silver?

The Spurs are 0-1 and have four straight seasons of under 35 wins.

Hardy had 37 in his first season last year.

Take a deep breath. Have a warm glass of milk. Do something.

 

[FrenchJazzFa]

I still thinking the last year strategy was nor as efficient as it could be. Mike play well until get traded, Lauri way too good to allow the team to be bad. DA make aall he could to make us worst, just did not work as expected. This year is another year where we have the same question. Running for play in or tanking as much as we can. I think next 10-15 game will answer this question.

 

[fishonjazz]

I’m on record saying that this season could end up just like last season in the same pattern. But I don’t feel like that’s some genius hot take. The roster is pretty much the same, or at least on the same level. Is there a good reason to think that this year will be different?

The difference this year is that the schedule is very hard at the beginning and we won’t get warm and fuzzy feelings for not completely sucking. So the turn to tanking could happen earlier.

Another couple of differences are a perceived to be weaker draft and we owe our pick to okc and we didnt basically trade our entire roster and get a new coach and gm last off season.


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[fishonjazz]

If the goal was playoffs we probably needed to call Jrue's bluff and done the trade without the assurances of re-signing. If the goal is a top 5 pick we will likely need to move off of a vet or two but nothing wild... trade KO, THT or Sexton, play Taylor and Sensabaugh in any roster holes that creates. Probably enough to land top (bottom) 5.

Trade clarkson too


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[underdog]

Yeah that was a good piece of work with JC's contract....but still haha.

Maybe I'm being too harsh on the FO for being "idle". The truth might actually be that they tried for some bigger fish and just ended up failing. We know they wanted Porzingis and Holiday, who knows what other stars Danny almost acquired. I think it's a totally legit strategy to say, "we're only trading for a big fish"....but when you strike out, you strike out and you have this unspectacular team. So the failure might not be from coasting, but just not being able to score from the goal line.

I think we will sit in limbo until we find our big fish trade. Having Lauri makes it fairly difficult to tank, but Lauri is also the guy you tank for so I'm not too bothered. But the clock is ticking and while stars seem to move like crazy these days who knows who will actually become available.

I think Danny was also after Marcus Smart.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Trade clarkson too

How about Collins? Lauri? Both are useful vet assets for carrying out a scorched-earth rebuild who will only make it harder to bottom out if they play. They're on the wrong timeline too.

I'm playing devil's advocate here because I'm genuinely interested in the logic of the kind of mid-season U-turn some people keep suggesting in case we have a terrible start. Like last season, Lauri in particular is the elephant in the room who's complicating everything.

Collins won't fit a tank project either. I don't think he's interested in the kind of multiyear losing streak we're talking about here. He wanted a fresh start, and standing in the corner spacing the floor for a bunch of youngins probably isn't his idea of a good time.