what are our odds if DM becomes an elite facilitator?
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fishonjazz
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You think he already is an elite facilitator?
2017: 3.7 assists per game
2018: 4.1
2019: 4.4
2020: 5.2
2021: 5.5
If less than 6 assists per game (while playing lots of minutes and having a high usage) is now considered elite facilitating then basically every player in the league is an elite facilitator.
Yeah, he isn't. Love DM but he isn't much of a passer compared to how much he likes to shoot. He could bump his APG by 2-3 simply by finding Rudy open a few times a game. His average up by 2 APG would start to look like "good" facilitator status. Hit Rudy that one extra time, for something above 7 APG and you're starting to look like a top-tier facilitator. I think an elite facilitator needs more than 8 APG, hopefully something really close to 9 APG, and that's in 2022.
gandalfe
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That's the thing, he easily could be, with his abilities and vision. And it might even bring his scoring UP, because people would have to focus on other people a little more - even 5% more would leave him open an extra couple of times a game.
We all know assist numbers are muted in Quin's system and we should all know that assists is not the only thing to measure facilitating. There are things Don can improve on. He needs to get better at hitting the role man and dealing with high traps in particular....but as an offensive engine (yes I know not the same thing as facilitator), Don is absolutely elite and has been in the playoffs 2 years in a row. We've pushed the boundaries of just how good an offense can be, but unfortunately we're not playing ourselves on defense so we've still lost. The best offenses have basically been the Jazz and whoever they are playing. The Jazz own the highest combined offensive rating over the past two playoffs combined and it's not particularly close either.
I know I'm not really answering the question line directly, but my point is that Don has been about as good as possible and we've still gotten beaten. I don't think his facilitating is holding us back and it wouldn't make a huge difference because him shooting it 25+ times has already produced super elite offense. Whether he's passing or shooting, it would be incredibly difficult to top what he's already done. It really comes down to defense. I'm confident that Don will produce another elite offense come playoff time, he's done it twice in a row. I'm concerned that the Jazz will have a historically bad defensive performance that results in a series loss anyways, it's happened twice in a row.
here's a good read
For most of the 2012-13 NBA season, Bryant was leading the league in scoring, but he was also shooting his team in and out of contests with a bevy of contested shots that he kept firing away and eventually missed late in games as fatigue seemed to affect him.
He has since altered his game and channeled his inner Magic Johnson in his last six games, averaging 16.8 points, 10.2 assists and 7.7 rebounds per game on 46.4 percent shooting from the floor.
The Lakers have looked better with this new version of Kobe, but that is mostly because of the end result. Indeed, the Purple and Gold have only lost once since the Black Mamba started playing the role of distributor.
But if we dig into the numbers, we will notice that the Lakers scored 107.3 points per 100 possessions when Kobe was playing the role of proverbial chucker, whereas that figure has dropped to 105.3 points per 100 possessions during his run as the Lakers’ de facto point guard, per NBA.com’s advanced stats tool.
And the defensive numbers are roughly about the same to boot, which seems quite confusing at first glance. But there are other forces at work here, and they do still revolve around Kobe Bean.
Since shifting into distributor mode, Kobe has changed the attitude of his teammates to some extent. He has gotten them to move better without the ball and also look far more engaged in the overall result in comparison to when the Lakers’ all-time leading scorer was stringing along 30-point games.
This has manifested itself in the team’s play late in games.
Earlier in the season, Mike D’Antoni and Co. were allowing the game to get away from them in the fourth quarter and struggled to execute both on offense and defense. This was magnified in the clutch (clutch is defined as the last five minutes of the game with the scoring margin within five points).
With Bryant putting up a league-leading amount of field goals per game, the Lakers were scoring 100.7 points per 100 possessions in the clutch but yielding 114.4 points per 100 possessions defensively in the same situations, according to NBA.com’s advanced stats tool.
Simply put, they were a train wreck late in games and were almost assured a loss. However, with the former league MVP morphing into the second coming of Oscar Robertson, the execution in the fourth has been far better.
Los Angeles hasn’t played flawless basketball down the stretch of games with this new version of Kobe, but the difference is still huge.
The Lakers have become less predictable on offense and generated more high-percentage shots, thus giving them good floor balance. Have a look at the video below, and observe how perfectly placed all the other Lakers are to space the floor when Bryant attacks the basket:
The adjustment has resulted in better defense overall because it has limited the transition opportunities of their opponents late in games, when D’Antoni’s team is awful. In addition, the help defense has been far better as the players have been much more invested on that side of the ball.
According to NBA.com’s advanced stats tool, the Lakers have produced 105.2 points per 100 possessions in the clutch with this installment of Kobe Bryant and allowed 106.8 points per 100 possessions.
Again, the production isn’t great, but it’s far better than the initial output that resulted from Bryant’s gunning down the stretch of games.
If the Lakers are going to do anything resembling a playoff push, they are going to need for their superstar to continue to play the role of facilitator to dissect opposing defenses and give his team a chance to overwhelm teams late or close out contests with their superior talent.
Kobe Bryant, Facilitator vs. Kobe Bryant, Ball Hog: Which Is Better for Lakers?
The Los Angeles Lakers have been playing better basketball ever since Kobe Bryant switched things up and became more of a facilitator in the offense.For most of the 2012-13 NBA season, Bryant was leading the league in scoring, but he was also shooting his team in and out of contests with a bevy of contested shots that he kept firing away and eventually missed late in games as fatigue seemed to affect him.
He has since altered his game and channeled his inner Magic Johnson in his last six games, averaging 16.8 points, 10.2 assists and 7.7 rebounds per game on 46.4 percent shooting from the floor.
The Lakers have looked better with this new version of Kobe, but that is mostly because of the end result. Indeed, the Purple and Gold have only lost once since the Black Mamba started playing the role of distributor.
But if we dig into the numbers, we will notice that the Lakers scored 107.3 points per 100 possessions when Kobe was playing the role of proverbial chucker, whereas that figure has dropped to 105.3 points per 100 possessions during his run as the Lakers’ de facto point guard, per NBA.com’s advanced stats tool.
And the defensive numbers are roughly about the same to boot, which seems quite confusing at first glance. But there are other forces at work here, and they do still revolve around Kobe Bean.
Since shifting into distributor mode, Kobe has changed the attitude of his teammates to some extent. He has gotten them to move better without the ball and also look far more engaged in the overall result in comparison to when the Lakers’ all-time leading scorer was stringing along 30-point games.
This has manifested itself in the team’s play late in games.
Earlier in the season, Mike D’Antoni and Co. were allowing the game to get away from them in the fourth quarter and struggled to execute both on offense and defense. This was magnified in the clutch (clutch is defined as the last five minutes of the game with the scoring margin within five points).
With Bryant putting up a league-leading amount of field goals per game, the Lakers were scoring 100.7 points per 100 possessions in the clutch but yielding 114.4 points per 100 possessions defensively in the same situations, according to NBA.com’s advanced stats tool.
Simply put, they were a train wreck late in games and were almost assured a loss. However, with the former league MVP morphing into the second coming of Oscar Robertson, the execution in the fourth has been far better.
Los Angeles hasn’t played flawless basketball down the stretch of games with this new version of Kobe, but the difference is still huge.
The Lakers have become less predictable on offense and generated more high-percentage shots, thus giving them good floor balance. Have a look at the video below, and observe how perfectly placed all the other Lakers are to space the floor when Bryant attacks the basket:
The adjustment has resulted in better defense overall because it has limited the transition opportunities of their opponents late in games, when D’Antoni’s team is awful. In addition, the help defense has been far better as the players have been much more invested on that side of the ball.
According to NBA.com’s advanced stats tool, the Lakers have produced 105.2 points per 100 possessions in the clutch with this installment of Kobe Bryant and allowed 106.8 points per 100 possessions.
Again, the production isn’t great, but it’s far better than the initial output that resulted from Bryant’s gunning down the stretch of games.
If the Lakers are going to do anything resembling a playoff push, they are going to need for their superstar to continue to play the role of facilitator to dissect opposing defenses and give his team a chance to overwhelm teams late or close out contests with their superior talent.
i tried to post the link but no success so i just copied/paste.
basically what it says is when kobe shifted to facilitator averaging 10+ assist/game, it somehow made everybody play better including the defense. i know dm isnt kobe but he can sure learn something from this
basically what it says is when kobe shifted to facilitator averaging 10+ assist/game, it somehow made everybody play better including the defense. i know dm isnt kobe but he can sure learn something from this
LoPo
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Donovan could definitely run this offense and become an even better facilitator. He needs to improve, but he also needs to be more of the focus of facilitation from the outset of games. Conley is a very crafty "true PG" who gets so many opportunities to run our offense. As he phases out, Don will have to improve his efficiency.
If Don wants a long career at his size, he needs to figure out how to be a better PG. Athleticism always fades, but complete skillsets have a more longterm impact.
Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
If Don wants a long career at his size, he needs to figure out how to be a better PG. Athleticism always fades, but complete skillsets have a more longterm impact.
Sent from my SM-A516U using JazzFanz mobile app
Release the Kraken
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OP^ I believe that your point is particularly salient in the closing minutes of close games when he goes into iso “hero” mode. Whether by design or by habit, he needs to learn to loosen those blinders and share the rock, particularly when he’s double or triple teamed and somebody is open for the easy deuce or tres as the situation dictates.
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SteakNEggs
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0%
gomretat
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Yup. He makes elite passes at times but he is not an elite facilitator. As for what it means this year, I dont see if moving the needle. I will be mildly surprised if we make it out of the first round given the most likely match ups.
I mean, it would help but it's not some guarantee as Mitchell is a 'meh' defender. Look at James Harden - he's great at getting teammates the ball and always has been - now he does so even more now that he's getting older and is less of a scorer than he once was. And we all know how well Harden plays defense so he's comparable to DM in a lot of ways - if DM became an assist machine it would be cool but he's still a defensive liability.
jope
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I don’t think don is an elite distributor, but judging him solely by his assist total is futile while he’s playing within this offense.
Ricky Rubio, the 3 seasons prior to Utah, averaged 9 apg. That dropped to about 5 and a half in 2 seasons with Utah. (Also about what Don is averaging)
Beyond assists, Don plays too out of control in crunch time to be an elite facilitator. That could be a major improvement for us if that somehow changed.
Ricky Rubio, the 3 seasons prior to Utah, averaged 9 apg. That dropped to about 5 and a half in 2 seasons with Utah. (Also about what Don is averaging)
Beyond assists, Don plays too out of control in crunch time to be an elite facilitator. That could be a major improvement for us if that somehow changed.
LogGrad98
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More than a facilitator, he needs to become a better decision-maker. That is the crux of it. I do not trust his decision-making, especially in crunch time, when he tends to get blinders on. He has done better recently with this, but this is where he can take a jump in his impact on the game. If he gets better at making the right call in the situation he will automatically become a better facilitator, and a better scorer. I think about Jordan or even LBJ, and this is part of what makes them great, their ability to know when to set others up, the right play to make in the moment based on the situation, and the right time to just take a game over. This is more a part of their greatness than just scoring a lot. Mitchell needs to take that step, and he has the ability at that point to be truly great.
fishonjazz
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I agree that don is an awesome amazing offensive player. And not an elite facilitator. Thats ok. There are not many of them. Hence the word elite.
I love donovan mitchell. Hope he retires here.
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Yeah, I understand that. But I do think he is undersold by his raw assist total and I don't think it's really possible for him to be better than he has in the playoffs offensively. To me, it doesn't matter if he's the one shooting or if he's facilitating. It's about the offense he's producing and he's been as good as anyone in the league. So to answer the question, I don't actually think it changes our outlook much if he's an elite "facilitator" because he's already been a super elite offensive player in the playoffs and it hasn't led to much playoff success because the defense has been so horrific.
SoUjazzfan
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Don has so much offensive gravity at the end of the game he could become an elite facilitator at that point. He generally draws a triple team and just needs to be more aware of where the help is coming from and get the ball to the open man. It would make him even more dangerous with teams knowing they can't just collapse on him when he drives. The trick is convincing him he can be a hero assisting the game winner instead of shooting it.
jom2003
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5.5 apg is already a team high this season. Conley only averages 5.3 a game, and has never averaged more than 6.5 a game in his career.