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Who to pair with Lauri and Keyonte?

Fosto said:
Even watching the games he doesn't look that good... He gotta be in the bottom 10% of starters. He has potential, but who knows if he's ever an above average starter.
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He has 7.7 APG as a starting lead guard with 9, 11, 7, 6, 11 and 2. Even in the last game where he had only 2 he had 8 potential assists but our finishing was piss poor. Those are great numbers, and the APG is top 10 level for PGs.

His shot isnt falling but he is taking 11 per game and they arent bad ones. He also isnt missing them by big margins.

Its easy to see in the eyeball test that he is a very promising young player but you judge him on a veteran scale comparing him to established starters.
 
sip said:
I really like Key and think he will be an excellent longterm piece for us but just like I said with Kessler last year we shouldn't be making any moves with the expectation for guys with a year or less of experience as if they are sure things. I've seen way too many young players have solid rookie years and then stagnate or regress after that point.
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Not to mention Keyonte‘s current numbers are nowhere near “solid”. Not even close. He can dish out a few dimes at a decent rate but everything else is very much a work in progress.
 
Rookies are often overhyped, and this has been no different with Keyonte. He has shown promise to be a good player in the future, but right now he’s a rookie with rookie mistakes and can’t defend (like most rookies) and shoots poorly. I wish we had a good point guard so Key could come off the bench and learn the ropes without unfair pressure.
 
HermanG said:
He has 7.7 APG as a starting lead guard with 9, 11, 7, 6, 11 and 2. Even in the last game where he had only 2 he had 8 potential assists but our finishing was piss poor. Those are great numbers, and the APG is top 10 level for PGs.

His shot isnt falling but he is taking 11 per game and they arent bad ones. He also isnt missing them by big margins.

Its easy to see in the eyeball test that he is a very promising young player but you judge him on a veteran scale comparing him to established starters.
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Keyonte’s playmaking ability is largely negated by his poor finishing skill. As things stand, he has a OBPM of -2.3 and 105 ortg, both are amongst team’s worst and even league’s worst. We are talking about a guy who's shooting 35% from the floor currently and shot 37% in college. These numbers are worse than folks like Dillon Brooks and Patrick Beverley, both known for their defensive prowess. And should we talk about Keyontes defense?
 
HermanG said:
He has 7.7 APG as a starting lead guard with 9, 11, 7, 6, 11 and 2. Even in the last game where he had only 2 he had 8 potential assists but our finishing was piss poor. Those are great numbers, and the APG is top 10 level for PGs.

His shot isnt falling but he is taking 11 per game and they arent bad ones. He also isnt missing them by big margins.

Its easy to see in the eyeball test that he is a very promising young player but you judge him on a veteran scale comparing him to established starters.
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Assists are by far the most useless basic stat, as it is largely a product of the system and the players around you. Plenty of meh players who have averaged a high number of assists per game.

That said, I do think he's a good passer, and I'm impressed by how well he runs the floor as a 20 year old rookie.

Aside from his passing, he's been really, quite, awful, statistically. He's shooting 29% from the three, and 36% overall. He such a bad finisher, and I have zero faith that he'll score whenever I see him drive. His TS is 48%. He also makes terrible decisions in transition, and I cringe each time I see him chuck a contested layup that has no chance of going in, which he does on most transition opportunities. He also doesn't rebound at a decent rate, and is an overall poor defender.

He has a loooong way to go before we talk about him like he's a fundamental piece to a contending team.
 
Fosto said:
Assists are by far the most useless basic stat, as it is largely a product of the system and the players around you. Plenty of meh players who have averaged a high number of assists per game.

That said, I do think he's a good passer, and I'm impressed by how well he runs the floor as a 20 year old rookie.

Aside from his passing, he's been really, quite, awful, statistically. He's shooting 29% from the three, and 36% overall. He such a bad finisher, and I have zero faith that he'll score whenever I see him drive. His TS is 48%. He also makes terrible decisions in transition, and I cringe each time I see him chuck a contested layup that has no chance of going in, which he does on most transition opportunities. He also doesn't rebound at a decent rate, and is an overall poor defender.

He has a loooong way to go before we talk about him like he's a fundamental piece to a contending team.
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And people saying we should only hold him to rookies standard and yet we see multiple threads like this one hyping him up as the face of this franchise.
 
jom2003 said:
And people saying we should only hold him to rookies standard and yet we see multiple threads like this one hyping him up as the face of this franchise.
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Well, even as a rookie, he's not exactly lighting it up. There are around 10 rookies who are having a better year than him.
 
Fosto said:
Well, even as a rookie, he's not exactly lighting it up. There are around 10 rookies who are having a better year than him.
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Clearly better: Wemby, Chet, Miller, Ausar, Bilal, Wallace, Lively, Jaquez, Podzie. That's 9. And guys that are at least debatable: Hawkins, Sasser and Black.
 
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Yeah... I wanted Key to start because I was totally fed up with watching THT, and it was obvious Ainge wasn't going to bring in any real help.

But the people who see a star in him at this point are squinting HARD. Keyonte has a talent for making thread-the-needle passes when an opportunity presents itself, but he's been bad at everything else.

IMO it's way too early to pencil him in as a long term starting PG for this team.
 
Honestly, we might’ve failed in all 3 of our picks last year. Which is pretty crazy given that we had 3 attempts in a historically good draft and yet we might’ve whiffed on all 3.
 
The Thriller said:
Honestly, we might’ve failed in all 3 of our picks last year. Which is pretty crazy given that we had 3 attempts in a historically good draft and yet we might’ve whiffed on all 3.
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we already done that once in 2004. hardly anything new. As a small market team that lives on the draft, we are pretty horrible at it. And yes, I'm saying this with Malone/Stockton taken into consideration.
 
jom2003 said:
we already done that once in 2004. hardly anything new. As a small market team that lives on the draft, we are pretty horrible at it. And yes, I'm saying this with Malone/Stockton taken into consideration.
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You’d think we’d learn? I guess I just had higher expectations from DA. Unfortunately, last year’s draft made me long for the days of the previous regime. At least they scored on some players (even if I guess it was Denver that found Gobert and Mitchell first)
 
The Thriller said:
You’d think we’d learn? I guess I just had higher expectations from DA. Unfortunately, last year’s draft made me long for the days of the previous regime. At least they scored on some players (even if I guess it was Denver that found Gobert and Mitchell first)
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i'm giving this group the benefit of the doubt though. Even Kessler isn't having his best year. And I suspect Jensen is the main guy credited with our youth development, not Hardy.

Just like we wouldn't know what Rudy could become had we kept Corbin.
 
A lot of negatively over what might be our only source of hope for this season. The criticism might be valid, but Keyonte being a building block is a projection not a reality, it's a hope, not a sure thing.

When a kid as young as Keyonte shows the type of skill he has shown, it's more fun for me to get excited at his flashes of potential, especially with the kind of year the Jazz are having.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
A lot of negatively over what might be our only source of hope for this season. The criticism might be valid, but Keyonte being a building block is a projection not a reality, it's a hope, not a sure thing.

When a kid as young as Keyonte shows the type of skill he has shown, it's more fun for me to get excited at his flashes of potential, especially with the kind of year the Jazz are having.
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Tbf its 3 people who have focused on inefficient scoring only and they havent presented any arguments except shooting %. Even tried to argue against the value of his playmaking by saying "assists are the worst stat".

Eyeball test tells that Keyontes shot selection is good, his form and stoke look good and he isnt missing by large margins. Didnt check his college tape but most scouting reports said he took difficult shots and the shooting upside is there. Hasnt happened thus fa (apart from SL where he was feeling it), but with rookies it sometimes takes time to get comfortable and find a rhythm.

It will start to fall at some point and these guys will end up looking absolutely silly.
 
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