Zimmerman/Martin Case

[Deleted member 365]

It seems to me that Zimmerman's defense is to smear Martin. The kid could have been a serial rapist at his school. None of that mattered at the time Zimmermann murdered Martin. He had no way of knowing the kid's background. Nor does it justify his actions. Quite honestly, I am sickened at how this case has been carried out thus far.

I doubt we will ever know what truly happened as only 1 person survived this incident. If only we could ask Trayvon what really happened.

IMO, I'm just sick and tired of mall cops. These guys are usually punks with self esteem issues. They are less concerned with the safety of others than with their own egos. Zimmermann had a long history of trying to make himself feel important. He routinely jumped the gun and called the police at any lil squeak or shout in the neighborhood. this dude needed a real job... badly!

Although, that probably has about as much relevance as Trayvon's past...

Was he acting in self defense or not? What gave him the right to stalk Trayvon? Why didnt he back away when cops told him to leave the kid alone?

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I'm sure Martin was worried that some weird creepy dude was following him aroun but that is not a crime.

The issue is did Zimmerman have "justifiable cause" for shooting Martin. Did it go from Zimmerman being some weird wanna be cop following him to Martin whoopin that *** to the point Zimmerman felt his life was in danger. These photos certainly help his case.

I think what I've decided is that while Zimmerman is the reason he is dead he had no intention of killing or even harming Martin. I think he gets manslaughter or is let off.

I agree with you. As tragic as this is, I would feel uncomfortable with Zimmerman getting anything more than manslaughter or something like that. I'm inclined to think it was just a stupid, tragic sequence of events that was, unfortunately, entirely avoidable, if one or both had not escalated.

It seems to me that the defense case is somewhat akin to blame the rape victim, e.g., she was a slut, so if she had it coming, or if she didn't have it coming, at least it's understandable.

The fact that Zimmerman was injured to me can be reasonably interpreted in a number of ways. How do we know, for example, that Martin didn't feel imminent threat so he chose fight instead of flight? How do we know, moreover, that Zimmerman did not instigate the physical struggle and Martin was merely fighting back? If I'm attacked physically, for example, I will do all I can to incapacitate my attacker, including, if I need to, slamming his head on the pavement. Since Martin is dead, we don't know his side of the story. I'm asking this honestly, is there any information where we can safely rule out that Martin felt imminent threat or that Zimmerman was the one who instigated the fight?

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I was talking about the hypothetical scenario where he doesn't get the gun, but yeah, I guess we should assume that everything else happened the same way before.

Of course, race already is a huge part of this story, so it still would be had Martin pummeled him. Most of the stuff surrounding this story is spin, anyway.

What I find so discouraging about this case (other than the tragedy of it all) is the rush to judgment by people to construe the story to fit within whatever their political/social/racial predilections are. While I'm hard pressed to believe that shooting Martin was an appropriate response in any case (it may have been, but I'm very skeptical), I'm would like to know what really happened so that justice is done, regardless of the outcome. I just hate the way things like this get politicized, but it's, unfortunately, the way it is sometimes.

 

[PearlWatson]

If they find out he was high at the time it makes it LESS likely he attacked Zimmerman. Just sayin'.

But they do believe he had smoked pot within a couple hours of the encounter. Also that he had been sending a series of angry texts back and fourth with a friend of his and was on the phone with the friend he was fighting with at the time of the encounter with Zimmerman.

That ain't necessarily so.

While marijuana makes most people more mellow "some people experience an anxiety reaction, which can actually lead to intense paranoia and fear, which in turn can lead to violence."

 

[candrew]

That ain't necessarily so.

While marijuana makes most people more mellow "some people experience an anxiety reaction, which can actually lead to intense paranoia and fear, which in turn can lead to violence."

Pearls all over this - she's seen "Reefer Madness" 5 times.

 

[PearlWatson]

Oh No! The skittle defense brigade has arrived.

 

[candrew]

Actually I don't have a dog in this fight.

One of them was a lowlife in the making and the other is a reckless cowboy - neither one of them is worth my continuing attention.

 

[Harambe]

None of this "evidence" changes the fact that this deluded **** stalked a kid who likely (wouldn't you?) felt in danger.

This. If memory serves, Zimmerman called the police who told him NOT to confront the guy. If that's true, then he purposely put himself in harms way, against better judgement AND direct recommendations from the authorities. At that point, whether or not Mr Martin was beating the hell out of him doesn't matter.

It's like going in to the bear country, finding a bear, asking the forest ranger what he should do, ignoring that rangers orders and going to wear that bear is, agitating the bear, and then claiming self defense after shooting it.

If that's all true, this is one of those cases where if he doesn't serve time a riot should ensue.

Edit: They didn't tell him not to engage, but they did tell him that "they don't need him to do that", which only marginally changes my opinion of the matter.

Another edit: There's also great conflict here. From Wikipedia:

Investigators also questioned the extent of his injuries and why he didn't identify himself to Martin as a Neighborhood Watch coordinator. Zimmerman said he didn't want to confront Martin.

If he didn't want to confront Martin, why did he get out of his car?

Gilbreath, however, questioned Zimmerman's statement that Martin was slamming his head against the sidewalk just before he shot the teenager, saying it was "not consistent with the evidence we found

Gilbreath is Dale Gilbreath, an investigator.

 

[Gameface]

This. If memory serves, Zimmerman called the police who told him NOT to confront the guy. If that's true, then he purposely put himself in harms way, against better judgement AND direct recommendations from the authorities. At that point, whether or not Mr Martin was beating the hell out of him doesn't matter.

It's like going in to the bear country, finding a bear, asking the forest ranger what he should do, ignoring that rangers orders and going to wear that bear is, agitating the bear, and then claiming self defense after shooting it.

If that's all true, this is one of those cases where if he doesn't serve time a riot should ensue.

Edit: They didn't tell him not to engage, but they did tell him that "they don't need him to do that", which only marginally changes my opinion of the matter.

Just like when a dad tells his daughter not to go on a date with Jimmy because he's trouble. The daughter sneaks out of the house to meet up with Jimmy. Clearly she's forfeited her right to say no or to resist his advances...judging by your stellar logic.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Just like when a dad tells his daughter not to go on a date with Jimmy because he's trouble. The daughter sneaks out of the house to meet up with Jimmy. Clearly she's forfeited her right to say no or to resist his advances...judging by your stellar logic.

Huh?

The AUTHORITIES not some father figure told Zimmermann to essentially STAND DOWN. So using YOUR logic it would be like the father, head of police, telling his 30+ year old daughter to stay away from jimmy because he is a suspected drug dealer. Well, later that night she sneaks out and is in the same apt as jimmy is when the drug bust goes down. Unless we have access to blood tests, we have no real way of knowing whether she was consuming the drugs with jimmy. She's going to be arrested and prosecuted. Likewise, we have no way of knowing FOR SURE what happened. Hopefully with time, we can piece together what actually happened. But Zimmerman's defense is pretty weak IMO. Smear the kid's reputation, claim self defense, no wounds where one would expect there to be, and oh btw, he ignored the instructions given by real cops.

He is going to get manslaughter at the very least.

 

[Gameface]

Huh?

The AUTHORITIES not some father figure told Zimmermann to essentially STAND DOWN. So using YOUR logic it would be like the father, head of police, telling his 30+ year old daughter to stay away from jimmy because he is a suspected drug dealer. Well, later that night she sneaks out and is in the same apt as jimmy is when the drug bust goes down. Unless we have access to blood tests, we have no real way of knowing whether she was consuming the drugs with jimmy. She's going to be arrested and prosecuted. Likewise, we have no way of knowing FOR SURE what happened. Hopefully with time, we can piece together what actually happened. But Zimmerman's defense is pretty weak IMO. Smear the kid's reputation, claim self defense, no wounds where one would expect there to be, and oh btw, he ignored the instructions given by real cops.

He is going to get manslaughter at the very least.

A father is an AUTHORITY (legally recognized) in regard to his daughter. The 9-11 operator (not a law enforcement officer) suggested Zimmerman not pursue. 9-11 operators have zero legal authority over anyone.

9-11 operators ALWAYS suggest you do the least confrontational thing. The law does not require that.

The case against Zimmerman is weak. Super weak. All the anti-Zimmerman people think Zimmerman needs to prove justification for killing Martin. That's not the case, the state needs to prove Zimmerman did not have justification. Much more difficult.

Your posts above about Zimmerman's case being about smearing Martin...They just concluded the phase of the trial regarding what evidence could be presented. Obviously the defense wants as much damaging evidence against Martin to be admitted as possible. Doesn't mean they have to use it, but if they get it approved by the judge it becomes another arrow in their quiver. The judge ruled mostly against Zimmerman, saying only if the prosecution enters evidence that makes Martin's actions outside the incident with Zimmerman relevant can the defense bring it up. Had the defense not tried to enter that evidence they would have been incompetent.

 

[Qman]

Huh?

The AUTHORITIES not some father figure told Zimmermann to essentially STAND DOWN. So using YOUR logic it would be like the father, head of police, telling his 30+ year old daughter to stay away from jimmy because he is a suspected drug dealer. Well, later that night she sneaks out and is in the same apt as jimmy is when the drug bust goes down. Unless we have access to blood tests, we have no real way of knowing whether she was consuming the drugs with jimmy. She's going to be arrested and prosecuted. Likewise, we have no way of knowing FOR SURE what happened. Hopefully with time, we can piece together what actually happened. But Zimmerman's defense is pretty weak IMO. Smear the kid's reputation, claim self defense, no wounds where one would expect there to be, and oh btw, he ignored the instructions given by real cops.

He is going to get manslaughter at the very least.

Nonsense- it wasn't the police who told Zimmerman to standdown. It was the 911 operator. Refusing direction from a 911 operator doesn't negate your right to self-defense. It probably indicates poor judgement but if Zimmerman's injuries show his life was in danger I believe he was justified.