Zimmerman/Martin Case

[One Brow]

Zimmerman had no control over the race of the recent burglars and it ain't racist of him to notice that they happened to be black.

Agreed. The racism comes in when, after the burglars have been caught, assuming the other young black men are also burglars.

I can't really trust your "majority of households" assertion seeing as gun owners ain't exactly going to offer up whether they have guns to government busybodies, unless they absolutely have to.

In any state where licenses and permits are required, they have to.

As I said I don't have access to the NWDS as you seem to. I'm sure any murder related to neighborhood watch is automatically flagged for that beautiful database.

Sure you do. Most of these government statistics are available on the internet.

 

[Nate505]

I get that you sympathize with every pothead out there but Zimmerman's neighborhood was his business.

Of course you don't follow "random" teenagers in your neighborhood. Either does Zimmerman. He followed a 6 foot something guy who looked like he was casing the place, like recent burglars of similar description.

Every dummy on the planet is "qualified" to spot someone up to no good. It ain't that hard.

But hey I hate people who try to protect their wives and neighbors too. They are the suckiest people on the whole damn planet.

No it wasn't. Was the kid robbing any place? No, he was just walking around, and it sounds like he was talking on his phone. And apparently it is hard to spot someone who is up to no good. In this case Zimmerman failed.

Your last sentence is the typical sort of stupidity I've come to expect from you. At least you are consistent.

 

[PearlWatson]

Agreed. The racism comes in when, after the burglars have been caught, assuming the other young black men are also burglars.

In any state where licenses and permits are required, they have to.

Sure you do. Most of these government statistics are available on the internet.

From what I read the neighbor's burglars hadn't been caught which is why Zimmerman was looking out for them. And no Zimmerman doesn't think all black dudes are burglars, just the ones acting suspiciously.

That's a nice yet pointless addition about states that require permits, since it doesn't contradict my point, or support your assertion that the "majority of household" don't have guns.

If an internet list of neighborhood watch related murders exists use your speedy *** fingers and share it with me. Thanks in advance.

 

[PearlWatson]

No it wasn't. Was the kid robbing any place? No, he was just walking around, and it sounds like he was talking on his phone. And apparently it is hard to spot someone who is up to no good. In this case Zimmerman failed.

Your last sentence is the typical sort of stupidity I've come to expect from you. At least you are consistent.

Yes, he was just walking around minding his own stoned *** business in his dad's neighborhood on a rainy evening after being suspended from highschool. Of course he's just another typical skittle buying angel, while the "rent a cop" trying to protect his neighborhood deserves to be hated.

You might be able to figure out which viewpoint I find stupid. I'll give you two guesses.

 

[Nate505]

Yes, he was just walking around minding his own stoned *** business in his dad's neighborhood on a rainy evening after being suspended from highschool. Of course he's just another typical skittle buying angel, while the "rent a cop" trying to protect his neighborhood deserves to be hated.

You might be able to figure out which viewpoint I find stupid. I'll give you two guesses.

Yeah, the idea of a kid being stoned walking in the rain minding his own business is just way too out there to believe.

What was Dudley DoRight protecting his neighborhood from? Did he catch Martin breaking into a house?

 

[Nate505]

I agree with this statement. I just wonder if being a gung ho jackass rent a cop means he surrendered his right to fight back if attacked?

Nope. And unfortunately that's the unknown crux of the issue, who attacked who first. Zimmerman being alive tends to have the upper hand in what will be decided as the truth.

 

[Gameface]

Nope. And unfortunately that's the unknown crux of the issue, who attacked who first. Zimmerman being alive tends to have the upper hand in what will be decided as the truth.

Which is why I suggested the restrictions I did.

As a gun loving libertarian, I assure you, innocent people being harmed is 100% unacceptable to me. They are not casualties of war. They are innocent victims. If every person has the right to their own life they certainly have the right not to be harmed by a vigilante law man. A person defending their own life, or the life of someone else, is one thing. I support the right to use whatever means necessary to defend the life of innocents. What I don't defend is the notion of picking someone out, deeming them a worthless criminal and gunning them down. I believe in the rule of law and due process of law, however frustrating and imperfect that might be. I cringe when I hear decent people say we should take criminals behind the woodshed and shoot them. I can't imagine a society more disgusting than that.

 

[One Brow]

From what I read the neighbor's burglars hadn't been caught which is why Zimmerman was looking out for them. And no Zimmerman doesn't think all black dudes are burglars, just the ones acting suspiciously.

You misremembered your source, or it was wrong. As for Zimmerman's thoughts, I'll his actions provide better evidence than your declarations.

That's a nice yet pointless addition about states that require permits, since it doesn't contradict my point, or support your assertion that the "majority of household" don't have guns.

If an internet list of neighborhood watch related murders exists use your speedy *** fingers and share it with me. Thanks in advance.

I'm just saying the government has resources available to say how many households have guns.

As for neighborhood watch murders, it was your claim that people on neighborhood watch had been killed. Your job to back it up.

 

[PearlWatson]

You misremembered your source, or it was wrong. As for Zimmerman's thoughts, I'll his actions provide better evidence than your declarations.

All it takes is a quick search to support my original memory:

City officials posted police reports to the city website detailing eight burglary reports in the neighborhood in the 14 months prior to Martin's February 26 death.
In three of those incidents, black males were implicated by witnesses or arrests.

https://www.cnn.com/2012/04/03/justice/florida-teen-shooting-burglaries

Your last sentence about Zimmerman's actions is just utter silliness, when you refuse to recognize his stated reasons for following Trayvon.

I'm just saying the government has resources available to say how many households have guns.

As for neighborhood watch murders, it was your claim that people on neighborhood watch had been killed. Your job to back it up.

"The government's" resources are too limited to make the claim that "most households don't have guns." Sorry.

My claim was more of a general one about people who have a greater chance of interacting with/getting in the way of criminals and the benefits of having a gun in that case.
It was you who wanted me to narrow it down and go on a pointless rainbow hunt.

 

[PearlWatson]

Yeah, the idea of a kid being stoned walking in the rain minding his own business is just way too out there to believe.

What was Dudley DoRight protecting his neighborhood from? Did he catch Martin breaking into a house?

Your "minding his own business" viewpoint is just so beautifully flawless I don't know why I wouldn't go along with it.

You answered your own question, but if you still can't follow I would be happy to provide the answer.

A BURGLARY (that's a wierd *** word)

 

[Nate505]

Your "minding his own business" viewpoint is just so beautifully flawless I don't know why I wouldn't go along with it.

You answered your own question, but if you still can't follow I would be happy to provide the answer.

A BURGLARY (that's a wierd *** word)

He was protecting his neighborhood from a burglary? So where was all the stuff that Martin had after he broke into someone's house? Hell, where is the proof that he broke into someone's house after Zimmerman confronted him?

 

[PearlWatson]

He was protecting his neighborhood from a burglary? So where was all the stuff that Martin had after he broke into someone's house? Hell, where is the proof that he broke into someone's house after Zimmerman confronted him?

you ain't protecting if the crime already happened...you are punishing

 

[Gameface]

you ain't protecting if the crime already happened...you are punishing

Say again? You're saying Zimmerman was punishing Martin for a burglary that happened previously? And you're also advocating for it?

 

[PearlWatson]

Say again? You're saying Zimmerman was punishing Martin for a burglary that happened previously? And you're also advocating for it?

no, I meant Zimmerman thought he was protecting against another burglary by the same people

as for vigilantism...I'm leaning in favor of it when the police are unwilling or unable to deal with rampant crime...I know there are some problems with this stance so I'm still hesitant about it.

 

[Gameface]

no, I meant Zimmerman thought he was protecting against another burglary by the same people

as for vigilantism...I'm leaning in favor of it when the police are unwilling or unable to deal with rampant crime...I know there are some problems with this stance so I'm still hesitant about it.

You know that violent crime has been decreasing for quite a long time now, right?

 

[PearlWatson]

You know that violent crime has been decreasing for quite a long time now, right?

if you say so

All I know is that the sex offender registry idea ain't working too well.

 

[One Brow]

Originally Posted by PearlWatson
From what I read the neighbor's burglars hadn't been caught which is why Zimmerman was looking out for them. And no Zimmerman doesn't think all black dudes are burglars, just the ones acting suspiciously.

Originally Posted by One Brow
You misremembered your source, or it was wrong. As for Zimmerman's thoughts, I'll his actions provide better evidence than your declarations.

All it takes is a quick search to support my original memory:

https://www.cnn.com/2012/04/03/justice/florida-teen-shooting-burglaries

Your CNN does *not* say the burglars had not been caught. However, Reuters is more detailed, and quite clear:

https://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

Caught, 19 days before the shooting.

Your last sentence about Zimmerman's actions is just utter silliness, when you refuse to recognize his stated reasons for following Trayvon.

If you think Martin's race didn't play into Zimmerman's conclusions about how suspicious he was, you are ignoring evidence from a wide variety of sociological experiments.

My claim was more of a general one about people who have a greater chance of interacting with/getting in the way of criminals ...

So, not members of the neighborhood watch. OK.

 

[One Brow]

no, I meant Zimmerman thought he was protecting against another burglary by the same people

What same people? On Feb. 2, Zimmerman saw the man who was arrested Feb. 6. ARe you saying Emmanuel Lewis and Trayvon Martin looked alike?

as for vigilantism...I'm leaning in favor of it when the police are unwilling or unable to deal with rampant crime...I know there are some problems with this stance so I'm still hesitant about it.

Well, if a few young black kids not committing any crimes need to die in the effort, no big deal to you, right?

 

[Gameface]

All I know is that the sex offender registry idea ain't working too well.

The sex offender registry is was and will always be a horrible idea. It's a list of dangerous people we allow to live in our communities. Sounds insane to me. If they are known to be dangerous predators then they should not be let out of a cell, ever.

On the other hand, 11 year old boys slapping girl's butts at school get added to the registry, so on the one hand the system is inadequate in protecting us from actual dangerous people and on the other it's making lifelong victims out of people who committed rather innocuous acts.

Abolish the registry. Child molesters and serial rapists aren't people who just slipped up and made a mistake, they are mentally defective in a way that makes them dangerous to their fellow man. Recidivism is too high and rehab is almost completely ineffective.

My non-scientific opinion is that whatever a person "needs" for sexual satisfaction, especially beyond a certain age, is pretty much hard wired in. If an old man only finds forced or coerced sex with children to be sexually satisfying then that's that. To reform him you have to convince him to be a monk and abstain from sexual satisfaction altogether. Sexual urges and desires do not die easily. For instance, there is no amount of rehab you could do on me to make me stop being attracted to women and start being attracted to men. None. If society told me that if I continued wanting to have sex with women they'd have to lock me up I could maybe fake it but in reality I would still want to have sex with women. So, really, if they wanted to stop me they'd have to kill me or lock me up.

I don't support allowing child molesters and serial rapists out of prison ever. Once we've got 'em it is immoral to release them back upon more innocent victims. A silly *** registry is a violation of a person's right's imo, and not an effective tool on the other.

 

[Nate505]

you ain't protecting if the crime already happened...you are punishing

You aren't protecting if a crime didn't happen as well...in fact, at that point there is no crime.