What PG do you want the jazz to go get?

[NAOS]

(Of course, Lyles could prove me way wrong..... Right now, though, I see a guy that's a couple of years from being any kind of worthy defender.)

 

[Game6Conley]

While I understand that Hill's age is a minus for us, his experience and fit would almost certainly buy us legitimacy and playoff experience RIGHT NOW. It's time for the older part of our core to get some playoff burn, and for the team as a whole to experience what is means to be GOOD in the postseason. If we have to spend a few assets to get that done, then I think it's value well spent. I certainly wouldn't give up the farm, but I'd do Burke, Lyles, and a second without hesitating.

Reading that last part, I put my hand up to my forehead like I had a brain freeze. No lie.

You could end up right, I just don't see it happening. Tha'ts a win-now move IMO.



I admit though, I seem to have a radically different opinion on what could happen during this next season and the next few, than many around here.

In short; I see the youth movement continuing.


long version;

Back during free agency, when cakes and baking were hot topics on Jazzfanz. I said (and got plenty of backlash over) that I thought the moves made, plus some interesting quotes from D.Lindsey, Indicated that with key injuries, that D-Lindsey would 'take his foot off the gas' and prep the tank for one last ride........ Dante's knee injury signals the first domino has already fallen, IMO.


I cited the very young team age as a reason why. Show me a truly competitive team that on average is around 24 years old... Even a team in the lowly eastern conference like Toronto last year, which was relatively close to 24 years of age on avg. got trounced in the playoffs..


The Jazz have the talent to compete, we all know that, the thing is, In the west what are they competing for... the 8th seed??? I'm sure you see that, and its why you value bringing in a veteran/experienced leadership, like Hill, which is totally understandable. However, I'd argue thats just not the direction the Jazz are headed in.

I truely hope they aren't going to unload these assets for anything less than a young stud. Complimentary or 'Need' pieces and the 2016 season sinking or swimming, pale in comparison In my eyes.

Jazz will use this season to further cut fat, and find muscle to replace it with.. IMO. If Burke doesn't show marked improvement, It will be in his and the Jazz best interests to move him, thats when I could see a rental like Chalmers being brought in. I think we will see enough improvement to keep Trey around in a back-up role for another year though.

 

[idiot]

LOL at all the George Hill responses, He's 29!!! He's too far ahead of timeline the Jazz seem to be working around to give up the type of assets Indi will want back for him. Plain and simple, **** that.


Hate to say it (I'm not gonna say I want the Jazz to go get him) but the proper response to this thread is Mario Chalmers. He'd be an easy sell to the fans because of his championship pedigree, and because he's just a rental. Most importantly he can probably be had for a pittance, (Miami is over the tax threshold correct??) so its minimal risk.

Not that it really changes your point (stopgap vs. long-term investment), but Chalmers is 29, as well. I was surprised to find that he's less than a month younger than Hill.

 

[fishonjazz]

While I understand that Hill's age is a minus for us, his experience and fit would almost certainly buy us legitimacy and playoff experience RIGHT NOW. It's time for the older part of our core to get some playoff burn, and for the team as a whole to experience what is means to be GOOD in the postseason. If we have to spend a few assets to get that done, then I think it's value well spent. I certainly wouldn't give up the farm, but I'd do Burke, Lyles, and a second without hesitating.

Hell, I don't even think hills age is a minus

I would love if we could get hill without giving up any of the core

 

[Hotdog]

What about Jordan Clarkson?

Maybe we could talk the Lakers into parting ways. I wonder what their price would be.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

What about Jeremy Lin? He is the backup for Charlotte now.

 

[Hotdog]

What about Jeremy Lin? He is the backup for Charlotte now.

No.

Linsanity is never coming back. Let it go.

 

[Douchebag K]

Lin would be very servicable as a cheap option short term. He can do a lot of things

 

[Game6Conley]

The best case scenario's now at PG involve Burks being able to play some effective minutes there.

and

for Bryce Cotton to have a breakout campaign, because he'd be dirt cheap thru 2017-2018.

 

[Red]

I'm all in favor of Cotton having a breakout campaign. Since Dante's injury and rumors of a stopgap pg, it has seen less likely to me that Cotton is part of the future in Utah. Simply because I can't see the Jazz keeping him with Burke, Neto, and a stopgap vet.

But I find this older article from the news feed has some good points. Well, I'm not quite sure I really know what a team's culture is, but obviously this poll has seen many votes in favor of Burke, Neto, and Cotton. In whatever playing order.

https://www.slcdunk.com/2015/8/19/9176083/the-downbeat-1708-the-culture-of-the-utah-jazz

"One point that I haven't made on this site yet about why the Jazz should not sign or trade for a big name player is the topic of culture. The Jazz have a culture that is built upon the hard work of its current roster. Does that mean I am against the Jazz bringing in free agents or other players through trade all the time? No. It means the Jazz have a chance to create a culture that could be just as concrete as the Jerry Sloan culture of the 90s/00s. That is something special. That would help the Jazz far more than a one year blip in the playoffs.

One more successful year of improvement in this system has the chance to set this culture as the standard. Last season the sculpture was made, this season it will be bronzed. If the Jazz were to bring any big name players or even just a few veterans in there is a chance for disruption to occur inside the system. Think about how much disruption is caused by hiring a coworker in your organization. Now what if that person leapfrogged a lot of current employees? It doesn't matter what their pedigree is, it causes disruption, jealousy, and damages the current culture in your organization. Sometimes that's a good thing when the environment is toxic. But when it's successful, disruption can make the culture toxic.

Now do I think a veteran would be a bad egg in the Utah Jazz's organization? Not necessarily. But it would cause the fear of being replaced if injured. That could cause mistrust between the players and the organization and put the organization out of alignment. It can be overcome and most good organizations can overcome it.

What Dennis Lindsey and company would, and I dare say should, ask themselves is, "Is it worth it to disrupt 2 years of momentum for a minimal upgrade a point guard?" I say minimal because any major upgrade is expensive and most likely not available on the trade market."

 

[Red]

From the same article:

"The Utah Jazz have a culture that is gaining velocity. Players staying in Salt Lake City to train together. Chatting on twitter together. Gordon Hayward inviting Jazz players to train with him in Indy. General Management making good personnel decisions and getting foreign investments to play in the United States. The coaching staff is able to have players stay on track with development in the offseason. There is tangible velocity. Adding an additional high profile player would cause disruption. Disruption is not always a bad thing, but in the current case of the Utah Jazz it is an unnecessary thing.

The Utah Jazz are trending up. They're gaining velocity. This forward momentum is not because they're young, that they have a good coach, or because they have a good general manager. Sometime during the next year, pundits will talk about how something special is happening in Utah. They'll compliment parts of the organization. But they'll be missing the mark. It'll be a result of all those elements being aligned and working for each other. The Utah Jazz will have developed a culture and that will be more valuable to the Utah Jazz and its fans than any player, coach, or general manager ever could be alone."
-----------------------------------------------------
This I understand. And it's the one thing that most impressed me about the Jazz when they first signed Cotton. It's the reason I wanted Cotton to stay on this team. Seeing most of the regulars at the Utah Summer League, with the stands full really told me all I needed to know that something special might happen here. As a Cotton booster, what more could I ask for was my thinking all along. Still is. Unfortunately, I'm no longer convinced Cotton is seen by Lindsey and Coach the same way I see him. As someone who will breakout and continue to surprise. But if they are looking for stop gaps I assume Burke, Neto, and Cotton might not cut it in their eyes. But I believe in the guy still. He's receded into the background of folk's thinking ever since Dante went down, but I think he can help. That's a fan's faith, though. Not an objective standard.

 

[GoFriars]

From the same article:

"The Utah Jazz have a culture that is gaining velocity. Players staying in Salt Lake City to train together. Chatting on twitter together. Gordon Hayward inviting Jazz players to train with him in Indy. General Management making good personnel decisions and getting foreign investments to play in the United States. The coaching staff is able to have players stay on track with development in the offseason. There is tangible velocity. Adding an additional high profile player would cause disruption. Disruption is not always a bad thing, but in the current case of the Utah Jazz it is an unnecessary thing.

The Utah Jazz are trending up. They're gaining velocity. This forward momentum is not because they're young, that they have a good coach, or because they have a good general manager. Sometime during the next year, pundits will talk about how something special is happening in Utah. They'll compliment parts of the organization. But they'll be missing the mark. It'll be a result of all those elements being aligned and working for each other. The Utah Jazz will have developed a culture and that will be more valuable to the Utah Jazz and its fans than any player, coach, or general manager ever could be alone."
-----------------------------------------------------
This I understand. And it's the one thing that most impressed me about the Jazz when they first signed Cotton. It's the reason I wanted Cotton to stay on this team. Seeing most of the regulars at the Utah Summer League, with the stands full really told me all I needed to know that something special might happen here. As a Cotton booster, what more could I ask for was my thinking all along. Still is. Unfortunately, I'm no longer convinced Cotton is seen by Lindsey and Coach the same way I see him. As someone who will breakout and continue to surprise. But if they are looking for stop gaps I assume Burke, Neto, and Cotton might not cut it in their eyes. But I believe in the guy still. He's receded into the background of folk's thinking ever since Dante went down, but I think he can help. That's a fan's faith, though. Not an objective standard.

Completely agree. Put Cotton on a team where he can play meaningful minutes and watch the magic happen. Jazz fans seem to think hes a third string at best after watching 4 NBA games and 8 summer league games, because you know 12 or so games is enough to write a player off . . .

Trust me as someone who has watched Bryce for 5 years now, you want him to play as many minutes as possible. Am I biased? Yes. Am I right? Yes.

Of course, the people on here and Twitter who are "experts" after watching those 12 or so games will write him off but I just hope there are no hard feelings when he is making highlight plays and starring on another team.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

My favorite thing about Gofriars is that he carries no bias whatsoever when discussing Bryce Cotton. The credibility just oozes from his posts.

 

[Douchebag K]

Completely agree. Put Cotton on a team where he can play meaningful minutes and watch the magic happen. Jazz fans seem to think hes a third string at best after watching 4 NBA games and 8 summer league games, because you know 12 or so games is enough to write a player off . . .

Trust me as someone who has watched Bryce for 5 years now, you want him to play as many minutes as possible. Am I biased? Yes. Am I right? Yes.

Of course, the people on here and Twitter who are "experts" after watching those 12 or so games will write him off but I just hope there are no hard feelings when he is making highlight plays and starring on another team.

Dude i like the guy but ultimately there's no getting away from the fact that he's about 5 ft 7 and is likely to get abused pretty regularly on D because of it

 

[Red]

Dude i like the guy but ultimately there's no getting away from the fact that he's about 5 ft 7 and is likely to get abused pretty regularly on D because of it

Well, so far "the magic" has happened at each stage where he was not supposed to make it. I think he is actually 5'11" barefoot. I think.

 

[Red]

Completely agree. Put Cotton on a team where he can play meaningful minutes and watch the magic happen. Jazz fans seem to think hes a third string at best after watching 4 NBA games and 8 summer league games, because you know 12 or so games is enough to write a player off . . .

Trust me as someone who has watched Bryce for 5 years now, you want him to play as many minutes as possible. Am I biased? Yes. Am I right? Yes.

Of course, the people on here and Twitter who are "experts" after watching those 12 or so games will write him off but I just hope there are no hard feelings when he is making highlight plays and starring on another team.

Well, in fairness, by one vote in this poll, the option that includes standing pat with Burke, Neto, and Cotton got the most votes. And some here are still of the mind that he can help. I certainly am of that mind. But, yes, once Dante went down, and once the rumors of FO interest in a veteran guard to replace Dante for a year emerged, that is really not good news for Cotton. Exum counts as a roster spot. If they sign a vet, without question Cotton has to go. If he goes somewhere as part of something that brings in a vet pg, then he may end up out there for the signing by someone. But I am still hopeful the FO goes with the present 3 pg's. Because at that point, I agree with you. Fans here and in Jazz land in general will be glad he made the team. I am, however, more tempered in my expectations. I do believe he is indeed a shoot first pg. It would be nice to get some offence from the point, but the distributing abilities of Neto, and the NBA experience of Burke may limit his minutes in any event. And he won't be on the floor to make defensive stops.....

 

[Deleted member 848]

This season is the wrong season to go after a PG via trade. We haven't even made the playoffs with our core yet-- this isn't our 'year'.

Let's continue to develop players, build a case that our team has everything we need except a stud at PG, and this will make it even more promising to other PGs out there. If we're going on an insane run, and feel like this year 'could be the year', then we have the trade deadline to help us pack Lyles and Burke or picks or whatever. The smart game is playing the waiting game until next offseason, throw a max at Conley, and tell him that a fit here in Utah is probably better than anything else out there for him.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Dude i like the guy but ultimately there's no getting away from the fact that he's about 5 ft 7 and is likely to get abused pretty regularly on D because of it

This. Cotton has yet to play a single play of impressive D, from my recollection. These two Cotton homers are tiresome.

 

[Red]

This. Cotton has yet to play a single play of impressive D, from my recollection. These two Cotton homers are tiresome.

Sorry I try your patience, but I have tempered my expectations all along, and there are more Cotton supporters on this board then just the two "homers". It's not hurting anyone if I speak up for my guy now and then. It was Snyder, not Red, who said of Cotton that "you get excited by his potential". It was the FO, not Red, who signed the guy. Furthermore, every pundent known, has talked about what to do about the pg rotation. And since that includes Cotton, he becomes part of that conversation. Two of the options in this poll include going with Burke, Neto, and Cotton. So, if you find mention of Cotton so dang tiresome, why not blame the two basketball morons, Lindsey and Snyder, one for signing him in the first place, and one for saying he likes the kid's potential. Yes, I am a homer for Cotton. But in reality you might as well say Lindsey and Snyder don't know a piece of crap player when they see one.

If you're tired of me, you must be tired of anyone that supports the idea of having the guy on the team. Believe me when I tell you, he was not signed because me or any other homer got on the horn with the FO and talked them into signing him....

 

[Red]

This. Cotton has yet to play a single play of impressive D, from my recollection. These two Cotton homers are tiresome.

53.13% of respondents in this poll favor the 3 pg's on the team now, on the opening roster. You think all 53% are homers??. You've got board members speaking up for their favorite players all the time. All the freakin time. It ain't a crime to be a homer. It ain't unusual or rare for any board member to talk about their favorites. If I tire you so much, block me. I don't post here that much in the off season anyway. I've even attempted to temper the "inflated" expectations of my fellow homer, because I am not seeing a starter or all star in my guy. Just wanted him to make your team's roster. I mean, can you ever freakin forgive me, dude? Lol, lol......