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Jazz have arguably the worst bench in the league

Stoked said:
One of the main reassons for placign Burks and Burke with the bench instead of the starters is that it provides a scoring anchor to the second unit that is not their otherwise. The Jazz used to give it up like a prom date in the 2nd and end of the 3rd Qs. That is not the case anymore and it is because of Burks and Burke being with the bench.

It is a great move for the Jazz.
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I do think our slow starts are in part to starting Neto (who looks like a 3rd pg at this point) and Gobert together. Two non-threats causing some issues and his defense hasn't made up for his offensive short comings. I'd give it another 10 games before i did anything though.
 
Stoked said:
One of the main reassons for placign Burks and Burke with the bench instead of the starters is that it provides a scoring anchor to the second unit that is not their otherwise. The Jazz used to give it up like a prom date in the 2nd and end of the 3rd Qs. That is not the case anymore and it is because of Burks and Burke being with the bench.

It is a great move for the Jazz.
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Yeah thats true.

It's farcical to talk about the starters and bench at face-value though, just from examining the boxscores, that' doesn't tell the story at-all.

I like Neto, that doesn't mean he was the best option for the $$ though, there's recent free agents totally outplaying him early on, players that were very gettable, and dirt cheap for any team.
PG_AB said:
T.J. McConnell and Ish Smith are in the top-5 in assists thus far.. Langston Galloway's still shooting 60% from 3, these 3 Free-Agents were probably overlooked by the Jazz..
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PG_AB said:
These bench stats are nothing more than a ruse, if the back-up Guards are going to continue to outplay the starters..

Raul Neto is shooting 29% from the field.. That airball he shot 2 feet left of the basket yesterday on a mid-range pull up jumper was so funny.

The bench should be reinforcements, not upgrades from the starters. Whatever works though.

As long as Hood's hitting his 3's at a 26% clip, it seems the bench will be markedly better.


Neto's averaging 17 minutes per game as a starter. That's a pretty good way to skew the bench statistics... no?


I'd start Burke and Burks, been saying this since the 2nd or 3rd game.. They close the games so it's not that big of a deal, unless your big on labels.

How good would the bench be if Burks and Burke were starting though?? Hood would need to carry the scoring load, and he's a 2nd year player..
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not one of your better posts. Fit matters.
 
PG_AB said:
Yeah thats true.

It's farcical to talk about the starters and bench at face-value though, just from examining the boxscores, that' doesn't tell the story at-all.

I like Neto, that doesn't mean he was the best option for the $$ though, there's recent free agents totally outplaying him early on, players that were very gettable, and dirt cheap for any team.
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Lately, this is the type of post where you've been mentioning Gerald Green. Thee Gerald Green who won't be suiting up against the jazz because his brain is broken. Fit matters.
 
NAOS said:
Lately, this is the type of post where you've been mentioning Gerald Green. Thee Gerald Green who won't be suiting up against the jazz because his brain is broken. Fit matters.
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I watch basketball, I'm not a Private Investigator or Dr. Phil.. Do you really know what happened in that hotel lobby to be passing judgement? He didn't get arrested, and reportedly he punched someone - Is it out of the realm of possibilities the guy deserved it?



Is this just, yet another classic case of Jazzfanzers channeling their inner Nelson Muntz?

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Green's capable of hitting near 40% from 3 on a high volume of shots, his stats the last few seasons confirm that - plus he's unstoppable in the open floor. At 1.5mil salary I thought that was a bargain (How could I have been so wrong?!?!?:mad:):cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyYMIWkzpxM - Vs the Jazz last year.

If the Bench unit was Neto-Hood-Green-Booker-Lyles, to me, that unit's more likely to be able to put up buckets than with Ingles, who elite defenders can play give less respect to on the perimeter. Gerald Green can drop near 20 on any given night, he's started a fair share of games. I think a volume shooter such as Green could fill in the offense better if Hayward got injured..

The Jazz don't have a major issue currently with the bench scoring - because of Burke and Burks whom are clearly being miscast to make it happen. Also because the defense affords them plenty of slack, without Rudy - Burks and Burke would obviously need to start. Demarcus Cousins almost has as many 3PM as Hood. **** Green does too and he only played 3 games.



Gerald Green can play, he was already ran out of the league long ago - playing for the Nets he proved beyond a shadow of a doubt he belongs in the NBA.

He couldn't get a deal this summer, I used to post about Aminu when he couldn't get a deal -- Many here channeled their Inner Nelson Muntz over that too, and then got totally hyper-sensitive about it when Aminu ate Haywards lunch in that first match-up this season.
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My beef wasn;t just Green vs Ingles either, I'd much rather have Gerald Green at 1.5 mil, than Elijah Millsap at 850k -- Sap fits the system, but just isn't good enough.. Call it crazy: I'd rather gamble on a low risk/high reward option, I like to take fliers instead of safe bets, if they're cheap enough..
 
I was on the Aminu train with you. We part at Gerald Green. He's gotten better as a player -- no doubt about that. But I still wouldn't want him around my re-building franchise. Apparently neither did Phoenix.

I don't know what happened on this incident. Sounds like he might have been a bitch to the wrong guy, or that he'd earned himself an enemy? Or, maybe it was just some douche that came after an NBA player. I really don't have any idea. But there's a reason he keeps moving around and general weariness. That's all.
 
Question: Who's better Shane Larkin(1.45mil salary) or Raul Neto??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70sZltQ_PJw


I'll always be picky about the minimum level players, many of them don't get a fair shot anyways.. Thats why I like to swing for the fences, **** team fit, the plyer makes 1% of the team salary, If he's to be relied on for something the team needs, that seems like an issue with the other monies being spent... I don't see why you'd go after just team fit players, unless the plan was to tank. For me minimum players should always be BPA, It;s about extracting value.. Bang for your buck.. Why not go for high potential when the cost is all the same??

I posted about Whiteside when he was playing in Lebanon.. A major hit on a minimum salary could really do plenty for a team on the precipice like Utah, especially at the PG position given the current circumstance.. Miami would probably be in re-build mode if not for Hassan.

Plus there's very little risk for a team like the Jazz with roster spots at a premium. Anyone not playing up to par can easily get replaced.

I've hit on quite a few of these minimum players over the years.. when Gerald Green only got the minimum from Jersey, it worked out really well for them, I never doubted him then, and he's shot well from 3 since... there's certainly value. He played immeasurably over his pay grade for Jersey, they were giving him the ball to get ISO buckets in the 4th Q..

I've got a long list of good calls about minimum players TBH, One good or bad call certainly won't stop me from talking ****. I'm actually familiar with the games of many of these fringe NBA talents, at-least the ones from bigger schools.

To me Elijah Millsap is akin to a mulligan. I don't view him as worthy of a roster spot, he's too limited - So I find other cheap players that I like to replace them, it's not gonna happen. To me it's still worthy of mention, I don't just blindly follow whatever the team says, that's boring to me..
 
PG_AB said:
Going from Gobert and Kanter to Gobert and Pleiss is an obvious massive downgrade..
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silesian said:
yep, that is why the team fell apart after the Kanter trade.

"obviously"

This is a false choice when you view it that narrowly. You have to look at minutes. And looking at minutes Pleiss has negligible impact. Banter has negative impact due to mis-fit and defensive liability.
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Pleiss is not playing because Quin does not consider him ready...Rudy can't play 48 minutes...so going from Gobert and Kanter to Gobert and Pleiss is a massive downgrade.

Who is bringing 13.8 ppg and 7.8 rpg coming off the bench that Kanter was averaging last season?

Booker is benefiting from Kanter's absence but he isn't contributing a lot statistically, in addition his defense isn't that good either.

This said, I'm glad the Jazz didn't overpay Kanter to come off the bench.

I hope Pleiss will get a chance to play and show if he can bring some points.
 
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Our bench is Burks and Burke when he is inspired.

Booker 0 points and 6 fouls in 16 minutes.

Ingles 0 points in 10 minutes.
 
Diamond77 said:
Our bench is Burks and Burke when he is inspired.

Booker 0 points and 6 fouls in 16 minutes.

Ingles 0 points in 10 minutes.
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Yeah that hurt.

You know, sometimes I think Jazz fans would rather their claims be true and the Jazz lose so they can be right than the opposite.
 
Yep, I'm wondering about what Lindsey has done and what he is trying to do. Lots of end of the bench movement with very little results.
 
Diamond77 said:
Our bench is Burks and Burke when he is inspired.

Booker 0 points and 6 fouls in 16 minutes.

Ingles 0 points in 10 minutes.
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We also had two starters who combined for 2 points in 34 minutes.

Our problem is team-wide, not just bench/starter: we don't have a RELIABLE three-point shooter. Opposing defences know they can collapse in on a driver, because we can't make anything on a drive-and-kick. The result is heavily-contested lay-up attempts*, and then we start to settle for jumpers instead. We need to find - internally or externally - a three-point threat to force the help defender to make a decision, and then make him pay whichever choice he makes. Right now the choice is easy for them, and they aren't paying.

That threat should be Hood, but his 10 of 39 shooting this season isn't cutting it. Nor is Hayward's 9 of 29. Burke is hitting around 50% from three because he hit 6 of 8 in one game; otherwise he's at ~33%. Burks has an insane percentage (10/16, 63%!) but low attempts, and half his tries came in the last two games. Until one or more of these players can make themselves a consistent outside threat, opposing defenses will pack the paint, and we will struggle to score.

* although even uncontested layups seemed to be a problem tonight.
 
Revolution 9 said:
We need specialists, and clearly these guys specialize in being average, and incosistent.
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we need three things:

1) one backup big to become serviceable (we are currently at zero)
2) Hood to recover his shot
3) Trey to maintain his play

and we will make the playoffs with ease. Trade for Conley if the Grizz need to rebuild. We are fine you guys.
 
dalamon said:
we need three things:

1) one backup big to become serviceable (we are currently at zero)
2) Hood to recover his shot
3) Trey to maintain his play

and we will make the playoffs with ease. Trade for Conley if the Grizz need to rebuild. We are fine you guys.
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Hood will get it. I just hope its sooner rather than later. Backup center I believe we should take a long look at Jeff. Burke is a beast.
With Burke coming off the bench we were set at PG. Losing Exum hurt the bench there. We still need a defensive, and shooting specialist outside Hood.
 
Revolution 9 said:
Hood will get it. I just hope its sooner rather than later. Backup center I believe we should take a long look at Jeff. Burke is a beast.
With Burke coming off the bench we were set at PG. Losing Exum hurt the bench there. We still need a defensive, and shooting specialist outside Hood.
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We have a defensive specialist (Millsap), He's just so horrible at everything else and only a little above average at defense that you can't play him. We need Booker to get back to playing like he did last year or Lyles to improve, We need Hood to remember how to shoot and we need Exum back (our perimeter defensive specialist, who is elite at that and not completely worthless at offense). Since I'm patient and don't expect miracles I think we'll be much improved next year at all of these problems. As for this year they are 3-3 on the road and the road loses have been to good teams. I didn't expect to win those games just compete in them and they did that.
 
Lets buy out Stefan Jovic from Red Star and bring him over. Set the Euroleague record with 19 assists yesterday. :o Unfortunately not much of a shooter though.
 
To me the biggest improvement needed is at the back up 4 and 5. Booker, while he brings energy, and Lyles are not cutting it.

Then PG.
 
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