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i say it is irresponsible because no one that is of any political consequence is blaming Muslims as a whole. It defeats a possible unity between faiths and people in general when such broad swaths are taken. Muslims are equally to blame as the rednecks that call all Muslims bad people.

GOPers who say "this is a radical Islam problem" show a characteristic naivety to this entire sociopolitical conflict, using religion as the source of their violence. It's a lazy assertion that looks like it makes sense on the surface, but can quickly be deconstructed.


Do we say "we have a white race extremist problem" after every mass murder on US soil?
 
GOPers who say "this is a radical Islam problem" show a characteristic naivety to this entire sociopolitical conflict, using religion as the source of their violence. It's a lazy assertion that looks like it makes sense on the surface, but can quickly be deconstructed.


Do we say "we have a white race extremist problem" after every mass murder on US soil?

No we don't. We also don't have ANYONE of political consequence saying all muslims are bad. Muslims need to stop playing the victim card and ignore any hack that says all muslims are bad. Like I said, it's counter-productive.
 
No we don't. We also don't have ANYONE of political consequence saying all muslims are bad. Muslims need to stop playing the victim card and ignore any hack that says all muslims are bad. Like I said, it's counter-productive.

You don't because it's stupid, and it would alienate white people. Thats why we don't do it. It should be the same for Muslims.

You're missing the point. The lives of Muslims across the continent are worse because of these uprisings, despite their lack of involvement. You say that no one thinks that all Muslims are bad-- yet using words like radical Islam implies the Islamic faith as one that has unique propensity to becoming violent (which is simply categorically incorrect).

Consequently, think of how much harder it has become for any person in America to secure a job if his name is Hussein Mohammed-- as opposed to John Smith. This isn't the victim card-- this is the fact of my day to day life. It becomes increasingly difficult to tell people my faith, due to fear of judgement. Is this fair? This is my reality. No one in Japan knows my religion due to the deep-seated Islamophobia here. I tell people I don't drink because I had an alcoholic uncle.
 
Untangling the Overlapping
Conflicts in the Syrian War
By SERGIO PEÇANHA, SARAH ALMUKHTAR and K.K. REBECCA LAI OCT. 18, 2015


What started as a popular uprising against
the Syrian government four years ago has become
a proto-world war with nearly a dozen countries
embroiled in two overlapping conflicts:

diagram-all-2-artboard.jpg


the two conflicts have cast the United States and Russia as enemies in one war and nominal allies in the other.

Civil War

diagram-govt-govt.jpg


Rebel groups supported by the United States are focused on toppling the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, not rooting out the Islamic State.

The United States is focused on defeating the Islamic State. While it has attacked 2,600 Islamic State targets, it has not directly attacked the Syrian government and it is backing rebel groups only with money, arms and some training.

Russia, Iran and the Lebanese group Hezbollah want to keep Mr. Assad in power, for now. Russia, in coordination with Syrian ground forces, has aimed the vast majority of its airstrikes at rebel positions.

The Islamic State, meanwhile, wants to both unseat Mr. Assad and create a caliphate stretching beyond Syria’s borders into Iraq and other countries.

Syria’s territory has been fragmented after four years of war.
The government now controls only a fraction of the country.

map-gov-control-945.png


map-russia-Artboard_3.png


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The United States has been joined by Turkey and several Arab nations in its fight against the Islamic State. They all believe ISIS poses a threat to them in their own countries.

“Most people are realizing now that the best way of dealing with the Islamic State is to contain them,” said Columb Strack, an analyst at IHS Janes, a defense research firm. “If you contain them and start hitting their economic sources, the idea is that in a few years they will collapse from within. That seems what the Americans are going for.”

But because the war against the Islamic State is just one among many, cutting off the group’s resources has been difficult. Porous Turkish borders and private Arab dollars have helped the Islamic State’s rise.

For Syria’s allies, especially Russia, the Islamic State is just one of many insurgent groups that they have called terrorists. While some Russian airstrikes have hit areas controlled by the Islamic State, most have targeted rebels groups.

Kurdish ground forces have been America’s mainpartner in the war against ISIS in Syria. But the partnership poses delicate problems for the United States.

diagram-kurds-kurds.jpg


Nearly 30 million Kurds live in territories divided across Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran, and they want more autonomy in those countries, or even a state of their own. The conflict in Syria has given them an opening toward achieving those goals.

American airstrikes against the Islamic State, coordinated with Kurdish fighters, have helped the Kurds seize a broad stretch of territory along the Turkish border. Those gains have increased tensions with Turkey, a major American ally, which has been fighting a bitter war with Kurdish separatists for decades.

Kobani has been the focal point of the U.S.-Kurdish
battle with ISIS. American airstrikes have hit more than
1,000 targets there, almost half of all their strikes in
Syria, helping the Kurds push back ISIS in the north.


map-us-airstrikes-600.png


In Overlapping Wars, the Danger of a Collision
As their offensives cross paths, all of these run the risk of their battles colliding. Experts say a misguided attack or an errant airstrike could escalate Syria’s two wars and lead to an even wider international conflict.

conflict-Artboard_1.png


Russian airstrikes have hit rebel groups supported by the United States and its allies. Russian cruise missiles have crossed areas where American jets have been flying.

conflict-Artboard_2.png


Turkey has attempted to hinder Kurdish advances in Syria and is bombing Kurdish rebels in its own territory, despite saying that Turkey shares the American and Kurdish goal of defeating ISIS.

conflict-Artboard_3.png


Iran and Hezbollah, Shiite allies of the Syrian government, are fighting rebel groups supported by Saudi Arabia and other Sunni Arab nations.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...t-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=2

realized the text from the figures isn't showing up. A shame. It's a brilliant compilation of whats going on done by the Times.
 
You don't because it's stupid, and it would alienate white people. Thats why we don't do it. It should be the same for Muslims.

You're missing the point. The lives of Muslims across the continent are worse because of these uprisings, despite their lack of involvement. You say that no one thinks that all Muslims are bad-- yet using words like radical Islam implies the Islamic faith as one that has unique propensity to becoming violent (which is simply categorically incorrect).

Consequently, think of how much harder it has become for any person in America to secure a job if his name is Hussein Mohammed-- as opposed to John Smith. This isn't the victim card-- this is the fact of my day to day life. It becomes increasingly difficult to tell people my faith, due to fear of judgement. Is this fair? This is my reality. No one in Japan knows my religion due to the deep-seated Islamophobia here. I tell people I don't drink because I had an alcoholic uncle.

It's very difficult to not connect radical islam to the terrorist attacks when the attackers, themselves, are stating they're doing these acts in the name of Allah. I believe the super-majority of muslims are are peaceful good people. But that fact doesn't change the fact that there is undeniably a tie-in. That's why the radicals are killing the peaceful Muslims... because they're not practicing the correct faith (in the minds of the radicals).

I'm VERY, very sorry that Muslims have gotten a bad rap for the radicals, but all of my posts have been to plead that Muslims should stand WITH humanity against the killers rather than take the airtime to complain they're wrongly blamed rather than joining the rest of the world in trying to solve the slayings. Frankly, it's repulsive, to me, that most every Muslim is too busy being defensive rather than locking arms with everyone else against the ****heads.
 
In all seriousness, Dala, you are among my favorite people on earth.
Thank you for responding and I will absorb your tl;dr posts as soon as I have some quiet time.
Godspeed to you and your family!
 
It's very difficult to not connect radical islam to the terrorist attacks when the attackers, themselves, are stating they're doing these acts in the name of Allah. I believe the super-majority of muslims are are peaceful good people. But that fact doesn't change the fact that there is undeniably a tie-in. That's why the radicals are killing the peaceful Muslims... because they're not practicing the correct faith (in the minds of the radicals).

I'm VERY, very sorry that Muslims have gotten a bad rap for the radicals, but all of my posts have been to plead that Muslims should stand WITH humanity against the killers rather than take the airtime to complain they're wrongly blamed rather than joining the rest of the world in trying to solve the slayings. Frankly, it's repulsive, to me, that most every Muslim is too busy being defensive rather than locking arms with everyone else against the ****heads.


then you simply aren't reading. Literally every prominent muslim group across the Western world has harshly condemned these attacks. I was broken for the entire day when I heard of these attacks. They are deplorable, and it really just hurt me down to my core.

With this said, the backlash has been unacceptable, and will lead to easier ISIS recruiting. That's the problem. That's why I have the comments that I do-- saying that it's just opportunistic victim-carding minimizes Muslim problems, and (again) helps groups like ISIS pander to Muslims who feel like the West doesn't care about them.
 
In all seriousness, Dala, you are among my favorite people on earth.
Thank you for responding and I will absorb your tl;dr posts as soon as I have some quiet time.
Godspeed to you and your family!

likewise, and wishing safety and health to your clan!
 
Let's ask ourselves a couple questions first-- 1.5 billion Muslims all read the same book. Okay. Why are some of them responding to this religious text with a desire to kill civilians in the west-- including those who live in the west?

See, inadvertently, you've highlighted the real issue here. Just by reading the same book, a billion and a half people became a unit, a whole, a community? With similar goals, issues, problems? The whole concept of ummah is completely and utterly incompatible with modern western society which demands and receives loyalty to the state first. You cannot constantly and consistently teach the brotherhood of all Muslims at the expense of others, and then be shocked when that's exactly how people internalize this.

You talk about Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and the first thing I notice is that when attacks like this happen, you can be assured that the perpetrators will have nothing to do with those actual places. In France and Belgium, they will inevitably be from Maghreb. What exactly do they have to do with Syria? With Iraq? With the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? And I get that there's a tremendous amount of racism and Islamophobia in France. I get that (mostly Maghrebi) Muslims are ghettoized in places where there are few jobs, few services, few educational opportunities. But not one of these perpetrators seems concerned about that. The statements have to do with things happening half way across the world that have no tangible connections with them.

That's not normal. Not it today's world. When there were Troubles in Northern Ireland, I don't recall it creating any tension in Canada. I don't recall people of protestant or catholic Irish origin(and there is a LOT of those in Canada) getting up in arms about what's going on over there. I don't recall my friends of Ulster Protestant stock seeing the Omagh bombing as something personally relevant to them. No rational person suspects Catholics of being more loyal to the Pope than to Canada anymore, either.

You can't ask why the world considers all Muslims the same when it seems like all Muslims consider themselves the same.
 
See, inadvertently, you've highlighted the real issue here. Just by reading the same book, a billion and a half people became a unit, a whole, a community? With similar goals, issues, problems? The whole concept of ummah is completely and utterly incompatible with modern western society which demands and receives loyalty to the state first. You cannot constantly and consistently teach the brotherhood of all Muslims at the expense of others, and then be shocked when that's exactly how people internalize this.

The conception of the term ummah is 399384903 times less monolithic then you claim it to be-- and you're using one selective interpretation of ummah and applying it to a population of 1.5 billion.

You talk about Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and the first thing I notice is that when attacks like this happen, you can be assured that the perpetrators will have nothing to do with those actual places. In France and Belgium, they will inevitably be from Maghreb. What exactly do they have to do with Syria? With Iraq? With the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? And I get that there's a tremendous amount of racism and Islamophobia in France. I get that (mostly Maghrebi) Muslims are ghettoized in places where there are few jobs, few services, few educational opportunities. But not one of these perpetrators seems concerned about that. The statements have to do with things happening half way across the world that have no tangible connections with them.

That's not normal. Not it today's world. When there were Troubles in Northern Ireland, I don't recall it creating any tension in Canada. I don't recall people of protestant or catholic Irish origin(and there is a LOT of those in Canada) getting up in arms about what's going on over there. I don't recall my friends of Ulster Protestant stock seeing the Omagh bombing as something personally relevant to them. No rational person suspects Catholics of being more loyal to the Pope than to Canada anymore, either.

You can't ask why the world considers all Muslims the same when it seems like all Muslims consider themselves the same.

just a laughably inaccurate post. All Muslims consider themselves the same? ****ing preposterous dude.
 
All Muslims consider themselves the same? ****ing preposterous dude.

I feel like you should draw a clearer picture why and how much tension exists between the sunnites, shiites, alevites and some other beliefs within the islam.
 
It is getting to the point where it will be acceptable (muslim hate) Dal. Just as hate for the west is acceptable in the middle east.

Did Muslim clerics/institutions condemn these attacks? Absolutely and fiercely.

But the attacks persist, Indonesia, Paris, Kenya, Syria, Iraq, Turkey...

Is the west messing everything up? Yes, western govs. share blame in this. But it is not a problem that they can ever solve. It has to be solved by Syria,m Turkey, Jordan, Iran, Saudi Arabia...until they get serious this will only get worse. The hate muslims receive will continue to grow and spread. understandably so.

Unfortunately the countries mentioned are more interested in fighting each other than solving problems.
 
just a laughably inaccurate post. All Muslims consider themselves the same? ****ing preposterous dude.

Fine, then please explain to me what is at work here. Why would some many Muslims with no connection whatsoever to Palestine hate Israel with a passion? Why would a Muslim of Algerian origin from France care so much about who's getting killed in Iraq or Syria. Why?
 
Nato and the Russian Federation need to bring all the players in the middle east to the table. They need to get real with them and stright up ask them for their solutions and what they will need for thos esolutions.

But unfortunately that will never happen because our leaders (all of them) are to busy playing political games.
 
Fine, then please explain to me what is at work here. Why would some many Muslims with no connection whatsoever to Palestine hate Israel with a passion? Why would a Muslim of Algerian origin from France care so much about who's getting killed in Iraq or Syria. Why?

Why do Americans get pissed when Paris is attacked? Why does Belgium, Germany, Sweden, Estonia...care?

Didn't hurt them, didn't connect to them.
 
So wait, now you're defending Islamophobia? Americans getting pissed at all Muslims because of this is idiotic. I think we can all agree on that.

I am just saying that your questions were bad.

I think Islamophobia is wrong. But I can understand why people have it.
 
Fine, then please explain to me what is at work here. Why would some many Muslims with no connection whatsoever to Palestine hate Israel with a passion? Why would a Muslim of Algerian origin from France care so much about who's getting killed in Iraq or Syria. Why?

Why does any person care about any other?
 
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