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Paris under attack

Siro said:
And how many legit refuges (this healthy tissue you cut away) will be forced to join the ranks of ISIS once they're turned away with nothing to do and nowhere to go? How many of those will sneak to Europe illegally to carry out attacks, or use social media to convince European Muslims to do their bidding for them? It didn't take a refuge crisis for terrorists to strike in the NYC, London, or Madrid.

Your suggestions may save a few lives. At best. But it is no solution. It is just a reaction that might give you comfort, but the world is not better off with closed borders than it was with open ones.
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I am all for good people moving to safe places to live and to escape the horrors of war. I have yet to see a solution proposed how to solve this problem.
 
Gameface said:
I bet I can piss farther than you can!
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well, not going to argue about that:).
I see people blaming little countries like Hungary or Slovakia for not helping with refugee crisis but yet what huge and prosperous country like USA is doing? If anything you guys are the best equipped to accept and provide for those poor people.
 
MVP said:
well, not going to argue about that:).
I see people blaming little countries like Hungary or Slovakia for not helping with refugee crisis but yet what huge and prosperous country like USA is doing? If anything you guys are the best equipped to accept and provide for those poor people.
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I wish we would do more to help. I wish we had more accessible immigration policies and a greater capacity to process immigration requests.

We don't. The U.S. that exists and the U.S. that I wish existed are two different things. I was just expressing what to me would make a nation like the U,S. great, which is to accept refugees with open arms. I think it would take a short term toll on the economy but would be extremely beneficial long term. But it's not about weather it's good for the U.S. or not, it's about the fact that accepting refugees is just the right thing to do, even if there is a cost and a risk.

The identity of a place like the U.S. is not and should not be static. There is nothing sacred or holy about our current national identity. Our national identity today is different than it was 20 years ago, which is different than it was 50 years ago, etc., etc.
 
Gameface said:
I wish we would do more to help. I wish we had more accessible immigration policies and a greater capacity to process immigration requests.

We don't. The U.S. that exists and the U.S. that I wish existed are two different things. I was just expressing what to me would make a nation like the U,S. great, which is to accept refugees with open arms. I think it would take a short term toll on the economy but would be extremely beneficial long term. But it's not about weather it's good for the U.S. or not, it's about the fact that accepting refugees is just the right thing to do, even if there is a cost and a risk.

The identity of a place like the U.S. is not and should not be static. There is nothing sacred or holy about our current national identity. Our national identity today is different than it was 20 years ago, which is different than it was 50 years ago, etc., etc.
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Can't argue with that man. Well said.
 
FBI has 1000 open ISIS probes. But hey, they're just the JV team and "they're contained". French president Hollande called out BHO saying he's not a leader. I would describe him as an Islam Apologist. This should serve as a GLOBAL wakeup call.
 
ONE LOVE said:
This was lovely to see...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynsq5ms9lvI
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If that person had channeled his time and energy he exhausted to organize and perform such a meaningless display of self promotion into actually using his piano skills to teach ONE refugee kid the basics of reading notes and playing piano, his intercultural impact would have been 50 times higher.
But dude gotta use the misery of others to "keep getting dem checks".
 
BTP said:
If that person had channeled his time and energy he exhausted to organize and perform such a meaningless display of self promotion into actually using his piano skills to teach ONE refugee kid the basics of reading notes and playing piano, his intercultural impact would have been 50 times higher.
But dude gotta use the misery of others to "keep getting dem checks".
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I couldn't possibly disagree more. His creating a moment of beauty is not harming refugee children. sheesh!
 
Siro said:
And how many legit refuges (this healthy tissue you cut away) will be forced to join the ranks of ISIS once they're turned away with nothing to do and nowhere to go? How many of those will sneak to Europe illegally to carry out attacks, or use social media to convince European Muslims to do their bidding for them? It didn't take a refuge crisis for terrorists to strike in the NYC, London, or Madrid.

Your suggestions may save a few lives. At best. But it is no solution. It is just a reaction that might give you comfort, but the world is not better off with closed borders than it was with open ones.
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Siro taking MVP to the woodshed
 
Gameface said:
...All I ever hear is how illegal immigration is illegal (their braking our laws! oh my) and that we need to shut it down. And whenever I've tried to have a rational discussion about it with someone supporting the securing of our boarders it becomes quickly apparent that they cannot accept any of the methods that allow "those people" into "their country" and it seems pretty obvious that they just don't want "them" here...
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I'm sorry, but I just can't except the weigh you put this.
 
@Dal - I am sincerely curious what you think the solution is rather than simply what it isn't.
 
moevillini said:
I'm sorry, but I just can't except the weigh you put this.
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Okay, so I got boarders wrong. I looked it over and I think that was it. If there's moar wrong please let me know. And I'm not kidding. If there is something else I'm not seeing it so I would like to know what it is so I don't look dumb in the future.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I couldn't possibly disagree more. His creating a moment of beauty is not harming refugee children. sheesh!
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So if you're under attack you go to the art gallery and experience "beauty" trying to share and experience the sorrow and burden of the ones really impacted by that situation, instead of trying to actively, positively improve the situation?
 
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Gameface said:
Okay, so I got boarders wrong. I looked it over and I think that was it. If there's moar wrong please let me know. And I'm not kidding. If there is something else I'm not seeing it so I would like to know what it is so I don't look dumb in the future.
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Nope. That zit.
 
Siro said:
What have these anti-ISIS air strikes actually done to help the situation in Syria? All they do is ensure Western countries remain a target for attack. The best solution is to stop interfering with the region and let them deal with their own problems.
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We don't always see eye to eye but this.
 
There is something disturbing about these guys. They want to attack publicly and they want to target the innocent. They don't attack a police station. They don't attack public houses as much. They don't go after military bases. They don't go after infrastructures like shipping rocks or rail stations. It's odd. They want to kill mom's and kids watching the new Charlie Brown movie. I don't get it.
 
Gameface said:
As far as securing the borders is concerned, I think the actual first step is to facilitate legal immigration at the scale that immigration is happening illegally and legally. Once you are allowing immigration legally at the rate that it is actually happening you can then use your legal immigration infrastructure to screen out threats. And since you don't have waves of harmless people risking their lives to cross your boarders illegally anymore it should be easier to actually secure the boarders.

But that's never what I hear. All I ever hear is how illegal immigration is illegal (their braking our laws! oh my) and that we need to shut it down. And whenever I've tried to have a rational discussion about it with someone supporting the securing of our boarders it becomes quickly apparent that they cannot accept any of the methods that allow "those people" into "their country" and it seems pretty obvious that they just don't want "them" here.

Well, if that's true, have fun standing against the tide. But it's never going to work. We need to allow the innocent people who want to be here to be here. This idea that we own the opportunities, the liberties and the security that exist here is wrong, in my opinion. It belongs to humanity. We're all humans.
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Anti-immigrant sentiment is nothing new in our history. For instance, in the 1840's and 1850's, it was the so-called Know Nothing Party, technically the American Party. It's platform was basically anti-Irish, anti-Roman Catholic. Those were the years of the Irish potato famine, and as more Irish poured into the United States, more "Irish need not apply" notices appeared on the offices of businesses/factories. It did little good of course. By the late 1800's the Irish were taking control of politics in NYC.

https://history1800s.about.com/od/immigration/a/knownothing01.htm

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Dr. Jones said:
There is something disturbing about these guys. They want to attack publicly and they want to target the innocent. They don't attack a police station. They don't attack public houses as much. They don't go after military bases. They don't go after infrastructures like shipping rocks or rail stations. It's odd. They want to kill mom's and kids watching the new Charlie Brown movie. I don't get it.
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Makes sense to me. I honestly don't understand why they haven't targeted a school yet. You could get into one easily enough and voila, 1,000 or more kids gone. The loss of life and fear that would cause would make 9/11 feel like just some Michael Bay movie.
 
Gameface said:
As far as securing the borders is concerned, I think the actual first step is to facilitate legal immigration at the scale that immigration is happening illegally and legally. Once you are allowing immigration legally at the rate that it is actually happening you can then use your legal immigration infrastructure to screen out threats. And since you don't have waves of harmless people risking their lives to cross your boarders illegally anymore it should be easier to actually secure the boarders.

But that's never what I hear. All I ever hear is how illegal immigration is illegal (their braking our laws! oh my) and that we need to shut it down. And whenever I've tried to have a rational discussion about it with someone supporting the securing of our boarders it becomes quickly apparent that they cannot accept any of the methods that allow "those people" into "their country" and it seems pretty obvious that they just don't want "them" here.

Well, if that's true, have fun standing against the tide. But it's never going to work. We need to allow the innocent people who want to be here to be here. This idea that we own the opportunities, the liberties and the security that exist here is wrong, in my opinion. It belongs to humanity. We're all humans.
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