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Paris under attack

There is something disturbing about these guys. They want to attack publicly and they want to target the innocent. They don't attack a police station. They don't attack public houses as much. They don't go after military bases. They don't go after infrastructures like shipping rocks or rail stations. It's odd. They want to kill mom's and kids watching the new Charlie Brown movie. I don't get it.

That is partially right.
Remember the prevented train bombing few month ago?
https://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/21/europe/france-train-shooting/

A couple years ago there was a failed bombing attempt on the train station in my hometown:
Since the bomb didn't go off it probably didn't hit the news radar internationally.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/14/german-prosecutors-file-terror-charges-following-attempted-bonn-train-station/

There are plenty more unsuccessful attempts to target public places and events. This Spring there was an attempt on a bike race in Frankfurt that was prevented in advance.
 
There is something disturbing about these guys. They want to attack publicly and they want to target the innocent. They don't attack a police station. They don't attack public houses as much. They don't go after military bases. They don't go after infrastructures like shipping rocks or rail stations. It's odd. They want to kill mom's and kids watching the new Charlie Brown movie. I don't get it.

But that is how you strike terror into the populace. By attacking the innocent. They want this war to be on. Now. Their message is "we will kill your innocents. Are you simply going to sit there and take this from us?" They refer to us as crusaders for a reason. The Crusades never ended for these sick extremists. So much of their anger does stem from the geopolitical settlements ending the First World War. But, it's a clash of civilizations to them. They are letting us know it is the destruction of our civilization that is their ultimate aim. And they would strike fear into our populations by targeting our innocents. They know there will be a response. They want a response. "Let's get on with it" is their message.
 
Makes sense to me. I honestly don't understand why they haven't targeted a school yet. You could get into one easily enough and voila, 1,000 or more kids gone. The loss of life and fear that would cause would make 9/11 feel like just some Michael Bay movie.

Everybody's gonna be scared to go out on Black Friday this year.
 
I know i know, im wrong muslims are bad lets just kick em all out

This is ridiculous and irresponsible.

Three of my best friends are devout Muslims. Do I blame them, at all, for the radical crazies? Of course not. That's as dumb as me hating my neighbor for being German because of the human rights atrocities performed under Nazi Germany.
This whole conversation and the perpetrators that make this about political correctness is a straw man and counter-productive.

Not one person in this thread has called Muslims evil or Islam the root of.

We are talking about radicals that are slaying innocent people. It doesn't much matter to me whether those they are killing are Muslims, Christians, or atheists. It's the radical ideology we're discussing. And while I'm at it, I tire of this whole "you can't fight ideologies with weapons."

Hitler was a radical with his own ideologies. Estimated 60 million died because of them. No amount of trying to understand, talking it out with him, or ignoring him and his regime was going to provide a cure for the people killed and suppressed by him. It was weapons.

Stalin had an ideology. 20 million dead.

Mao Zedong had an ideology that 70 million paid the ultimate price because of.

Prior to WWII the Japanese butchered their way through southeast Asia killing 12 million people with mainly bayonets and shovels.

September 11th.

Just because something is an ideology does not mean it doesn't suck and those deserving of being erased done so to protect those that are peaceful.
 
The IS is betting on the fact that an organized army has NEVER defeated a guerilla army before.
 
So if you're under attack you go to the art gallery and experience "beauty" trying to share and experience the sorrow and burden of the ones really impacted by that situation, instead of trying to actively, positively improve the situation?
You cannot possibly be this dense.
 
You cannot possibly be this dense.

I just say it as I see it. These are mostly ppl yearning for attention and by faking to take interest while promoting their own brand.
The real heroes are the ppl who actually help refugees in paid/volunteer capacities. THIS is what these countries need. Not tweeting selfies with #sad #jesuisparis

In 2 days once all the "boulevard meets reporting" shenanigans are yesterday's news, these ppl will continue their lives as usual and barely spend a thought on it. And I'm not blaming them. Not only all the basketball greats have short memories as the Foot Locker commercials suggest. It's human.
I just am not delusional about the impact of someone spending a lot of time placing a piano open air and playing some songs on it(while scoring a couple million youtube hits and subsequently being booked way more frequently the following months)
Guess what, tomorrow there're still hundred thousands on the road from Turkey refugee camps to Western Europe even though it's getting winter over here.
There're still thousands not being registered in the countries, there're still boats arriving at Greek islands' shores, and worst there are still millions in Syria who haven't had the possibility to escape(despite wanting to) or got their sons forced to join Assad's army at age 14.
That's what's happening for real.
 
This article seemed somewhat insightful as to IS motives, both in the particulars of France, and overall. Another thing I just read is that US officials are saying IS has created an "external attacks" unit, for launching global strikes. The downing of the Russian airliner, suicide attack in Beirut, and now Paris are all pointing to this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...e51f9a-8bb8-11e5-934c-a369c80822c2_story.html

"Online, almost all commentators referred to the new IS principle of retaliating promptly to what militants say are Western attacks against Muslims that that kill hundreds of people including women and children. That taps into frustration in the region over civilian deaths in the wars of recent years — a sentiment that exceeds the ranks of core supporters of jihadism.

A well-known IS ideologue, Gharib al-Ikhwan, commented IS now follows a new strategy: “Any killing in the Islamic nation will be met with an instant, decisive and horrible reaction.”

He mentioned the downing the Russian plane over Sinai, suicide bombing in southern Beirut and Paris attacks. He also considered the shooting in Jordan’s police training center, which killed five people including two Americans, as punishment for America -- though there has been no mention yet of the motive of the killing.

Hussein bin Mahmoud, a leading militant ideologue, mocked those who fight Muslims in the region yet “think that we don’t have the right to kill them in a Paris theater, in train stations in London or Madrid or in a building in New York.”

“Sorry Paris for those evil villains who killed peaceful and civilized Parisians while your beautiful planes and your modern bombs kill the wicked Arab children,” he wrote in a piece carried by IS media arm al-Battar."
 
I just say it as I see it. These are mostly ppl yearning for attention and by faking to take interest while promoting their own brand.
The real heroes are the ppl who actually help refugees in paid/volunteer capacities. THIS is what these countries need. Not tweeting selfies with #sad #jesuisparis

In 2 days once all the "boulevard meets reporting" shenanigans are yesterday's news, these ppl will continue their lives as usual and barely spend a thought on it. And I'm not blaming them. Not only all the basketball greats have short memories as the Foot Locker commercials suggest. It's human.
I just am not delusional about the impact of someone spending a lot of time placing a piano open air and playing some songs on it(while scoring a couple million youtube hits and subsequently being booked way more frequently the following months)
Guess what, tomorrow there're still hundred thousands on the road from Turkey refugee camps to Western Europe even though it's getting winter over here.
There're still thousands not being registered in the countries, there're still boats arriving at Greek islands' shores, and worst there are still millions in Syria who haven't had the possibility to escape(despite wanting to) or got their sons forced to join Assad's army at age 14.
That's what's happening for real.

You're coming off a little self-righteous. Why are you posting on these forums while so much suffering is happening in the world? Surely your time is better spent helping out.
 
You're coming off a little self-righteous. Why are you posting on these forums while so much suffering is happening in the world? Surely your time is better spent helping out.

Who says I don't? But you know this is a forum, where you discuss things. I just present how I perceive that matter.

I said I dislike ppl who use that for what I think is self-portrayal. I'm not packing portable pianos to play at the very place where incidents happened the night before. So all I'm saying is: Don't like self-portrayal. You can surely discuss that or disagree with it.
And I sincerely hope I don't come across as someone who tries to reap benefits over others misery in any way, shape or form.
 
I just say it as I see it. These are mostly ppl yearning for attention and by faking to take interest while promoting their own brand.
The real heroes are the ppl who actually help refugees in paid/volunteer capacities. THIS is what these countries need. Not tweeting selfies with #sad #jesuisparis

In 2 days once all the "boulevard meets reporting" shenanigans are yesterday's news, these ppl will continue their lives as usual and barely spend a thought on it. And I'm not blaming them. Not only all the basketball greats have short memories as the Foot Locker commercials suggest. It's human.
I just am not delusional about the impact of someone spending a lot of time placing a piano open air and playing some songs on it(while scoring a couple million youtube hits and subsequently being booked way more frequently the following months)
Guess what, tomorrow there're still hundred thousands on the road from Turkey refugee camps to Western Europe even though it's getting winter over here.
There're still thousands not being registered in the countries, there're still boats arriving at Greek islands' shores, and worst there are still millions in Syria who haven't had the possibility to escape(despite wanting to) or got their sons forced to join Assad's army at age 14.
That's what's happening for real.
Damn. If only that guy hadn't played the piano and caused all of this pain.
 
Who says I don't? But you know this is a forum, where you discuss things. I just present how I perceive that matter.

I said I dislike ppl who use that for what I think is self-portrayal. I'm not packing portable pianos to play at the very place where incidents happened the night before. So all I'm saying is: Don't like self-portrayal. You can surely discuss that or disagree with it.
And I sincerely hope I don't come across as someone who tries to reap benefits over others misery in any way, shape or form.
Wow. That's a mighty high horse you are riding on.
 
But that is how you strike terror into the populace. By attacking the innocent. They want this war to be on. Now. Their message is "we will kill your innocents. Are you simply going to sit there and take this from us?" They refer to us as crusaders for a reason. The Crusades never ended for these sick extremists. So much of their anger does stem from the geopolitical settlements ending the First World War. But, it's a clash of civilizations to them. They are letting us know it is the destruction of our civilization that is their ultimate aim. And they would strike fear into our populations by targeting our innocents. They know there will be a response. They want a response. "Let's get on with it" is their message.

This is ridiculous and irresponsible.

Three of my best friends are devout Muslims. Do I blame them, at all, for the radical crazies? Of course not. That's as dumb as me hating my neighbor for being German because of the human rights atrocities performed under Nazi Germany.
This whole conversation and the perpetrators that make this about political correctness is a straw man and counter-productive.

Not one person in this thread has called Muslims evil or Islam the root of.

We are talking about radicals that are slaying innocent people. It doesn't much matter to me whether those they are killing are Muslims, Christians, or atheists. It's the radical ideology we're discussing. And while I'm at it, I tire of this whole "you can't fight ideologies with weapons."...

personally, I honestly wonder how much the actual perpetrators of these actions truly believe in, or have much understanding of, any ideology behind the acts they are inspired to perform

and I'm not sure there really is an ideology at all - - plenty of statements and threats are made, but I have the feeling that the majority of those who are involved are just swept up into a "kill or be killed" mentality
 
Who says I don't? But you know this is a forum, where you discuss things. I just present how I perceive that matter.

I said I dislike ppl who use that for what I think is self-portrayal. I'm not packing portable pianos to play at the very place where incidents happened the night before. So all I'm saying is: Don't like self-portrayal. You can surely discuss that or disagree with it.
And I sincerely hope I don't come across as someone who tries to reap benefits over others misery in any way, shape or form.

You don't know what his motivations are, nor is it a particularly important to psycho-analyze them. Are you one of those people who comment on kitten videos with things like "how can you guys be watching this when there are so many children starving in Africa???".

If you don't care for such things, then just don't watch it. That's exactly what I did. Instead, the discussion is now about a random guy playing the piano. :rolleyes:

Either way, like I said, this isn't much of a subject, and I won't be saying more about it.
 
You don't know what his motivations are, nor is it a particularly important to psycho-analyze them. Are you one of those people who comment on kitten videos with things like "how can you guys be watching this when there are so many children starving in Africa???".

If you don't care for such things, then just don't watch it. That's exactly what I did. Instead, the discussion is now about a random guy playing the piano. :rolleyes:

Either way, like I said, this isn't much of a subject, and I won't be saying more about it.

yep. i just voice my opinion about that matter, when I read ppl saying: 'Incredibly sweet and touching gesture'
 
France attacking the "capital" of Isis with airstrikes.
 
This is ridiculous and irresponsible.

Three of my best friends are devout Muslims. Do I blame them, at all, for the radical crazies? Of course not. That's as dumb as me hating my neighbor for being German because of the human rights atrocities performed under Nazi Germany.
This whole conversation and the perpetrators that make this about political correctness is a straw man and counter-productive.

Not one person in this thread has called Muslims evil or Islam the root of.

We are talking about radicals that are slaying innocent people. It doesn't much matter to me whether those they are killing are Muslims, Christians, or atheists. It's the radical ideology we're discussing. And while I'm at it, I tire of this whole "you can't fight ideologies with weapons."

Hitler was a radical with his own ideologies. Estimated 60 million died because of them. No amount of trying to understand, talking it out with him, or ignoring him and his regime was going to provide a cure for the people killed and suppressed by him. It was weapons.

Stalin had an ideology. 20 million dead.

Mao Zedong had an ideology that 70 million paid the ultimate price because of.

Prior to WWII the Japanese butchered their way through southeast Asia killing 12 million people with mainly bayonets and shovels.

September 11th.

Just because something is an ideology does not mean it doesn't suck and those deserving of being erased done so to protect those that are peaceful.

It isn't reckless and irreesponsible. People are using this strategy to heighten Islamophobia, which robs North-American citizens of their rights, of their dignity, and serves to actually make ISIS recruiting pitches stronger. This is the big problem with the responses to these atrocities. The French government wants to close down mosques that are alleged to be promoting "hate speech". Unfortunately, America played a massive role in the creation of ISIS, and now many Western nations are paying for it. I fear for my life as well-- especially seeing as the militants are much more lethal against Muslim populations than non-Muslims.
 
@Dal - I am sincerely curious what you think the solution is rather than simply what it isn't.

I'm definitely no expert, but here's at least my best attempt at solving such a massive crisis.



Let's ask ourselves a couple questions first-- 1.5 billion Muslims all read the same book. Okay. Why are some of them responding to this religious text with a desire to kill civilians in the west-- including those who live in the west?

The answer is tied to the decades of foreign intervention from the west in the Middle East, which has been essentially the biggest foreign policy blunder at least since Vietnam, maybe the worst ever. There is simply no way to spin the Iraq war as successful in any aspect. The region is thoroughly worse off since Americsn intervention.


Okay, okay. So they hate Americans. Well, so do people all over the world really. What is the source of ISIS's ideology? What is their financial source? Where the **** are they getting all of these weapons and explosives? What on earth?

Well unfortunately, these weapons are coming from Arabic nations who continue to receive weapons and tanks from Western nations (Egypt, Qatar, Turkey, Saudi Arabia), including from America. I specifically have a lot of disgust with how in-cahoots the US is with Saudi Arabia. It makes no ****ing sense. Not only are they responsible for originating this extremist, Wahhabist Islam that ISIS have taken and run with, it's quite clear that a massive proportion of funding and weapons is coming from this Sunni-state. They have "enacted" laws trying to stop this ease of funding (at behest of the US) but they do not police it with any legitimacy.





So here we have a couple nations, including Saudi, who are very obviously the lifeblood of this militant organization. Why does the US not chastise them? Why does the US attempt to sanction Iran, and reportedly denigrates the country even though it is 100% less reprehensible as a nation than Saudi? Sure, Iran wants to "wipe Israel off the map" while Saudi doesn't-- but it's obvious that Saudi only says that because of their allied relationship with the US. They are the bitch of the US, but unfortunately it's a bit of s 2-way street. The US is highly dependent on preserving relations with Saudi due to their huge stocks of natural resources, thanks to the world's oil economy. The global demand for oil persistently floods Saudi with wealth, and that's what enables them to find organizations like ISIS.

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One more question: why are citizens in European countries committing violence against their fellow citizens, despite sometimes being born and raised in Europe?

As a Muslim who lived in Europe for a year in the 4th grade (Germany), I can tell you why. Racism is 100% still prevalent there. Way, way more than Canada. You simply cannot shake off the feeling of just feeling like you are a second class citizen there. This is ESPECIALLY true in a nation like France, which has such high Islamophobia (and even pockets of anti-Semitism). It's a system failure of nations across the European continent that build these Muslim minorities to fail in their countries, which builds their animosity, and enters them into a mindset where they no longer care about the lives of their fellow citizens.


----


So, what would I do?

- move towards an oil-free energy economy (through nuclear, wind, etc.) to reduce our dependence on the Middle East.
- coerce Saudi to change their policies towards terrorism on every front. Coerce them to change their policy on refugee accommodation. We now have the upper hand on them, due to our lack of oil dependence.
- assert to the Middle East that it is their responsibility to mobilize and fight against ISIS. Coerce other nations we are allied with into launching an organized offensive against this insurgency.
- kickstart government campaigns across Europe to keep inviting refugees and eliminating the continent of Islamophobia, as well as providing socioeconomic stimulus in the neighbourhoods in which these minority populations reside, in order to help incoming Muslims feeling less disenfranchised from the nations in which they live.

These are a couple, but there's a ton more along the same realm. We need to let the Middle East deal with it, we need to stop ISIS from making us Islamophobic, and we have to do more to accommodate refugees because it is Muslim allies that will end up being our most potent weapon against Islamic extremism. Isis is PRAYING that the world responds to their stacks with Islamophobia-- it is these reactions that perpetuate their existence


This isn't a silver-bullet solution, and it'll take a while before it works. Unfortunately, it's the only one that will work. US Bombing of ISIS territories with boots on the ground will maybe eliminate ISIS (doubtful) but this sets the stage for another militant organization to take control. You have to approach things from the ground up. What factors are leading to this? Let's treat those factors. We don't treat headaches with decapitation.
 
It isn't reckless and irreesponsible. People are using this strategy to heighten Islamophobia, which robs North-American citizens of their rights, of their dignity, and serves to actually make ISIS recruiting pitches stronger. This is the big problem with the responses to these atrocities. The French government wants to close down mosques that are alleged to be promoting "hate speech". Unfortunately, America played a massive role in the creation of ISIS, and now many Western nations are paying for it. I fear for my life as well-- especially seeing as the militants are much more lethal against Muslim populations than non-Muslims.

i say it is irresponsible because no one that is of any political consequence is blaming Muslims as a whole. It defeats a possible unity between faiths and people in general when such broad swaths are taken. Muslims are equally to blame as the rednecks that call all Muslims bad people.
 
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