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For those of you who don't like Jimmer...

sirkicky makes an astute observation about Fredette's combine measurements et all driving down his draft stock. If the draft were around the same time as the tourney then players with drive and a will to win would get drafted. But come draft day the most recent flavor in GMs mouths is the combine measurements - a day in which freak athleticism will trump college stats.

Jimmer will be there for the Jazz' second lottery pick if they want him.

I'm not sure about this. Who could John Stockton guard one on one? How about Chris Paul? How about Tony Parker? Now it's true, Jimmer will need to make a transition to PG, and I think that's what scouts will be looking at more than measurements. Wing span, bench pressing and vertical jump really don't matter so much 20 feet out on the floor.
 
I'm not sure about this. Who could John Stockton guard one on one? How about Chris Paul? How about Tony Parker? Now it's true, Jimmer will need to make a transition to PG, and I think that's what scouts will be looking at more than measurements. Wing span, bench pressing and vertical jump really don't matter so much 20 feet out on the floor.

Did you really just ask who Stockton, Paul, and Parker can guard one on one?
 
Dwill isn't any quicker than Jimmer is and he has managed to turn into a great player. I'm not saying Jimmer is going to be as good as Dwill but if quickness is the only complaint, he is certainly worth looking at. Guys who can shoot like him don't come around very often and far as defense goes, effort and savvy make up for most physical deficiencies. The Jazz will have to determine if he will put it the work, but if he will, there is no reason he can't be a good NBA player.

Deron is a terrible defender. But he's also taller and bigger than Jimmer so he can post up smaller guards on offense. Williams has a terrible time guarding the quicker PG's in the league. Now translate that to Jimmer, who is shorter and slower. Deron's a natural PG; Jimmer is not - he's converting over to the point. At 6'1," Jimmer is going to have a much tougher time getting shots off. And he's not going to score in the lane like he's done in college.
 
Did you really just ask who Stockton, Paul, and Parker can guard one on one?

Sure did. And lets add Steph Curry, Monta Ellis, Steve Nash, Francisco Garcia, Darren Collison, Ben Gordon, Steve Blake, and a number of others. Playing the passing lanes and getting steals isn't the same as playing man defense. No doubt Fredette will need to put more effort into defense, but he's got more PG skills than a lot of college SGs who had to transition to PG in the pros.
 
At first i was not a big fan of Jimmer...maybe he would not be worth the pick for the jazz, i'll be the first to admit he is the real deal. Jimmer he was draining 3's with such ease, but what ever team draft him they got a very special player in this kid.
 
He's cool. And that's fun to root for.

But get him with the second lottery pick at the end of the lottery.
 
Jimmer's D is probably the worst I have ever seen. Just watch him on a defensive possession. He lets guys go right past him, stands in one place, doesn't fight over screens whatsoever, and the only reason they can get away with that is because it's college ball, and Jackson Emery covers his *** constantly.

If he thinks he can do that in the pros, he's gonna get murdered night in and night out. I have some serious concerns about his defense. Him turning into even an adequate defender in the NBA would be a complete shock.
 
Jimmer's D is probably the worst I have ever seen. Just watch him on a defensive possession. He lets guys go right past him, stands in one place, doesn't fight over screens whatsoever, and the only reason they can get away with that is because it's college ball, and Jackson Emery covers his *** constantly.

If he thinks he can do that in the pros, he's gonna get murdered night in and night out. I have some serious concerns about his defense. Him turning into even an adequate defender in the NBA would be a complete shock.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with BYU's philosophy.

I'm sure Dave Rose hasn't made it a point to save Jimmer for their offense and to use him all up on defense.

My hell, some of you REALLY need to take a bball 101 class.

Also, who can anyone guard one on one in the NBA? The last 2 Jazz PGs were/are utterly terrible at defense. Seriously, it became common for opposing PGs to go for 20 and 10 against duron. When I read the paper I was astonished when the opposing team's leading scorer was somebody else.

Also, some of you are thinking that Jimmer playing for the Jazz will need to come in and play 40+ mins and guard Kobe every night. Dude, the late lottery usually sucks anyway. Get Jimmer, we'll finally have a guy that can be a solid backup/start some games, and not be a total liability on the offensive end. Just come in, make a few nice dishes because of drawing the defense out, and knock down a few treys every night. In one year Jimmer would give us more production than Price, Knight, and Watson have in their careers here in Utah.

The first pick we get, should be used on a starting wing. But the second pick, which will probably fall out of the top 10, could easily be used on Jimmer. Why not? Most of these picks will be out of the league in a few years anyway.
 
Jimmer's D is probably the worst I have ever seen. Just watch him on a defensive possession. He lets guys go right past him, stands in one place, doesn't fight over screens whatsoever, and the only reason they can get away with that is because it's college ball, and Jackson Emery covers his *** constantly.

If he thinks he can do that in the pros, he's gonna get murdered night in and night out. I have some serious concerns about his defense. Him turning into even an adequate defender in the NBA would be a complete shock.

Jimmer has been told to take it easy on defense. Do you need a PhD to figure that out? The entire offense runs through him. He absolutely cannot get into foul trouble.

Obviously he will never be a defensive stopper, but he will put more effort in at the next level.
 
I'm sure it has nothing to do with BYU's philosophy.

I'm sure Dave Rose hasn't made it a point to save Jimmer for their offense and to use him all up on defense.

My hell, some of you REALLY need to take a bball 101 class.

It's Bball 101 to have a player only play 1 end of the floor? Since when is this common practice? Specific examples are welcomed, unless you're just a moranic homer, which seems more likely considering your posts could easily be confused with a know-nothing fanboy. "Didn't you know!? Something totally non-standard and almost impossible to get away with is what they teach you the first day you take a basketball class!! DUHH!!!"

While their defense might be allowing Jimmer to coast (and wow, I mean coast as in he does nothing but stand in one place and literally watch guys go past him, while letting the other 4 catch up.. seriously, it's an absolute miracle that BYU has a respectable.. even GOOD defense), I really doubt the coach expects nothing from him on the defensive end basically says "yeah, just stand around". It comes down to effort, and if a player wants to play hard all the time, he'll do it with or without the ball. If he played some defense and became accustomed to 100%, all the time... wow, his draft stock would skyrocket and BYU would be a near shoe-in for a Final Four appearance.

Even in the biggest games of his career, he's still standing around. Anybody with half a brain knows that it's not defensive scheme. While it allows it, I'm sure it doesn't encourage it. Jackson Emery does so much work on the defensive end and is still a reasonably good offensive player... same with basically every other guy on the floor for BYU, sans the playmaking ability. You'd think that if he had an ounce of desire for defense he'd be playing at least some. Now, he's a pylon. He's a cardboard cutout. Thinking that won't translate to the NBA, in any shape or form, is plain foolish nonsense. He'll be awful. He may be such a liability that people barely dare to put him on the floor, or if they do, he'll wind up with Boozer-esque efficiency numbers and people will start to realize that he's an overall standstill or negative when it comes to effectiveness.

Also, who can anyone guard one on one in the NBA? The last 2 Jazz PGs were/are utterly terrible at defense. Seriously, it became common for opposing PGs to go for 20 and 10 against duron. When I read the paper I was astonished when the opposing team's leading scorer was somebody else.

There's a difference between a guy scoring when you're guarding them, and letting them do whatever they want. To Deron's defense, while I don't think he's a great defender, he's got a big body and is easily screened off due to size, but also had not a single knowledgeable big to defend/recover throughout his entire career here. I think it's funny that in one sentence you were talking about basketball 101 and defensive scheming as a team, then when you draw a comparison, you make no mention of team defense or even consider it. Convenient how your stance changes depending on what does and doesn't support your argument.

Also, some of you are thinking that Jimmer playing for the Jazz will need to come in and play 40+ mins and guard Kobe every night.

Who said that? You? OK, who else? Sentences like this make me believe your argument is a product of clear and obvious overreacting.

Dude, the late lottery usually sucks anyway. Get Jimmer, we'll finally have a guy that can be a solid backup/start some games, and not be a total liability on the offensive end. Just come in, make a few nice dishes because of drawing the defense out, and knock down a few treys every night. In one year Jimmer would give us more production than Price, Knight, and Watson have in their careers here in Utah.

I agree, he would be a nice pick at 12-14, and a better backup PG than we've seen in a long time (Maynor.. sadface). Doesn't mean his defense is anything but absolutely terrible, wrong and lacking effort from top to bottom.

Although, I must be the fool here for thinking you'd concede one bit through those blue-colored coke bottles surgically planted on your face. Seriously man, you can admit that he's a terrible defender. Everyone here knows it's true. Even you do. It won't lower your rank in BYU fandom, I promise. As Viny would say - intellectual honesty. Please advise.
 
It's Bball 101 to have a player only play 1 end of the floor? Since when is this common practice? Specific examples are welcomed, unless you're just a moranic homer, which seems more likely considering your posts could easily be confused with a know-nothing fanboy. "Didn't you know!? Something totally non-standard and almost impossible to get away with is what they teach you the first day you take a basketball class!! DUHH!!!"

While their defense might be allowing Jimmer to coast (and wow, I mean coast as in he does nothing but stand in one place and literally watch guys go past him, while letting the other 4 catch up.. seriously, it's an absolute miracle that BYU has a respectable.. even GOOD defense), I really doubt the coach expects nothing from him on the defensive end basically says "yeah, just stand around". It comes down to effort, and if a player wants to play hard all the time, he'll do it with or without the ball. If he played some defense and became accustomed to 100%, all the time... wow, his draft stock would skyrocket and BYU would be a near shoe-in for a Final Four appearance.

Even in the biggest games of his career, he's still standing around. Anybody with half a brain knows that it's not defensive scheme. While it allows it, I'm sure it doesn't encourage it. Jackson Emery does so much work on the defensive end and is still a reasonably good offensive player... same with basically every other guy on the floor for BYU, sans the playmaking ability. You'd think that if he had an ounce of desire for defense he'd be playing at least some. Now, he's a pylon. He's a cardboard cutout. Thinking that won't translate to the NBA, in any shape or form, is plain foolish nonsense. He'll be awful. He may be such a liability that people barely dare to put him on the floor, or if they do, he'll wind up with Boozer-esque numbers and people will start to realize that he's an overall standstill or negative when it comes to effectiveness.



There's a difference between a guy scoring when you're guarding them, and letting them do whatever they want. To Deron's defense, while I don't think he's a great defender, he's got a big body and is easily screened off due to size, but also had not a single knowledgeable big to defend/recover throughout his entire career here. I think it's funny that in one sentence you were talking about basketball 101 and defensive scheming as a team, then when you draw a comparison, you make no mention of team defense or even consider it. Convenient how your stance changes depending on what does and doesn't support your argument.



Who said that? You? OK, who else? Sentences like this make me believe your argument is a product of clear and obvious overreacting.



I agree, he would be a nice pick at 12-14, and a better backup PG than we've seen in a long time (Maynor.. sadface). Doesn't mean his defense is anything but absolutely terrible, wrong and lacking effort from top to bottom.

Although, I must be the fool here for thinking you'd concede one bit through those blue-colored coke bottles surgically planted on your face. Seriously man, you can admit that he's a terrible defender. Everyone here knows it's true. Even you do. It won't lower your rank in BYU fandom, I promise. As Viny would say - intellectual honesty. Please advise.



Geez.......he plays 40 minutes a game. Why is it so hard for you to understand?
 
Obviously he will never be a defensive stopper, but he will put more effort in at the next level.

I still don't know what makes people think this is the case. No effort and apparently being encouraged to give no effort must equal effort on the next level, right? That just doesn't make any sense, no matter how you try to spin it.

Name a player that was a bad/terrible/awful/non-existant entity on defense, and came into the league without the same defensive traits.
 
Great response. Still waiting for anything that resembles a real argument, though.

Sounds like you missed it the first time.

Jimmer IS BYU's team. He handles the ball 90% of the time. His conditioning is actually pretty amazing. When you do all that on offense and don't come out of the game, it's difficult to expend a lot of energy on the defensive end. I guess unless you are Superman.

You think Jimmer will play 40 minutes a night in the NBA? Of course not so his effort on D will be better.
 
Last night was the first time I've seen Jimmer play ... I don't follow college ball until the tournament. Yes, doesn't play defense, but that will have to change in the pros. He also is slow off the dribble, for a point guard, but so was DWill in college. In fact, in some ways he reminds me of DWill in college. Both not that quick and about the same size. I think Deron was the better ball handler and Jimmer by far a better shooter. Not sure that Jimmer will ever become as quick as Deron though maybe losing a little weight like Deron, if that's possible, could help. He does have good court vision and is a better than average passer. A mid-range first rounder is a no-brainer.
 
Really no reason to argue. He isnt expected to play D, that much is obvious. The guy is an awesome shooter though with parking lot range. He will go mid 1st, and then it is up to him how it goes from there. Tons of 'great' shooters come out of collage and go away after one year. If he is willing to work on stuff, I think he will be a decent pro. JJ style maybe.
 
Jimmer can score in the pros. His shot is quick and he's got great range so the height issues are negligible. And I can definitely see teams liking him as a second unit guy they can run off screens. I'm pretty leery of his ability to penetrate in the pros or create his own shot, but a quick release like he has would give hope.

On defense, BYU hides him in that zone all night. And he doesn't even play that well. He might have a reasonably quick first step with the ball, but he's got YMCA quickness without it. He's a strong dude and he may be able to speed himself up playing shorter minutes. But I see NBA teams relentlessly attacking him on the defensive end and winning that battle repeatedly.

The right team could use him. The Bulls, for example, could probably hide him in their scheme and they could definitely use his shooting. I like the kid. Great story. Lot of heart. But I wouldn't draft him any higher than late first, and only if I had the right team already assembled.
 
unluckyseventeen

I don't need to read your novel.

It really is THIS simple.

Jimmer is BYU's offense. If he's not assisting or scoring, BYU's offense is stalling. He's the catalyst for everything BYU does offensively. So why then, wouldn't coach Rose organize his defense to help conserve Jimmer's energy?

Will he ever be Dwade or Ron Artest out there? Probably not. But the best PGs in this league (one even was a MVP twice) over the past decade haven't played a lick of defense either.

I think I, like most people that have commented here, believe that Jimmer will obviously use more energy defensively at the next level because he won't be expected in the NBA to carry the offensive load that he's expected to carry at BYU. I believe that Rose is smart enough to create a team strategy that takes into account the 5 individual players on the court. That's why when Loyd came in last year, the offensive tempo increased and BYU's offense became a little more scattered. It wasn't that Loyd couldn't run the offense, it was because Rose was capitalizing on Loyd's quickness. When Jimmer moved back to the point guard position, the offense slowed down slightly.

It really is that simple.
 
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