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Is Russia Helping Trump?

Joe Bagadonuts said:
Your question was something like, "Do you think we should go out and find a country to influence our elections every time?" The answer is no, of course we shouldn't do that. It seems like a ridiculous thing to even ask. The reality is that all sorts of entities will come on their own every election cycle, without invitation from us, because if they discover information there is a good chance they will attempt to use it to their greatest advantage. To think that they won't is naive.

To all of those who are so upset about the supposed Russian intervention in our most recent election, what do you think we should do about it? Make a law against it and put the Russians in jail? Go to war? Invalidate the election? Cry about the result? I can't think of a single action that we could take makes sense. I think it would be a good idea to move on.
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You are talking to people who are fine with multinational corporations who hide money overseas influencing USA politics, fine with HC taking $13 million from a foreign government for one speech, bias deniers, okay with Hillary constantly doing things that would get any US veteran thrown in prison for life.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Your question was something like, "Do you think we should go out and find a country to influence our elections every time?" The answer is no, of course we shouldn't do that. It seems like a ridiculous thing to even ask. The reality is that all sorts of entities will come on their own every election cycle, without invitation from us, because if they discover information there is a good chance they will attempt to use it to their greatest advantage. To think that they won't is naive.

To all of those who are so upset about the supposed Russian intervention in our most recent election, what do you think we should do about it? Make a law against it and put the Russians in jail? Go to war? Invalidate the election? Cry about the result? I can't think of a single action that we could take makes sense. I think it would be a good idea to move on.
Click to expand...

You are talking to people who are fine with multinational corporations who hide money overseas influencing USA politics, fine with HC taking $13 million from a foreign government for one speech, bias deniers, okay with Hillary constantly doing things that would get any US veteran thrown in prison for life.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Your question was something like, "Do you think we should go out and find a country to influence our elections every time?" The answer is no, of course we shouldn't do that. It seems like a ridiculous thing to even ask. The reality is that all sorts of entities will come on their own every election cycle, without invitation from us, because if they discover information there is a good chance they will attempt to use it to their greatest advantage. To think that they won't is naive.

To all of those who are so upset about the supposed Russian intervention in our most recent election, what do you think we should do about it? Make a law against it and put the Russians in jail? Go to war? Invalidate the election? Cry about the result? I can't think of a single action that we could take makes sense. I think it would be a good idea to move on.
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The only suggestion for payback that I keep coming across was first suggested by a columnist for Bloomberg, and involves outing the sources of Putin's vast wealth:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...should-out-putin-s-wealth-after-election-hack

Finding something that would actually make Putin think twice may be a losing proposition...

"In October, retired Admiral James Stavridis told NBC News: "It's well known that there's a great deal of offshore money moved outside of Russia from oligarchs. … It would be very embarrassing if that was revealed, and that would be a proportional response to what we've seen."

For normal countries, this kind of information on a national leader would be political poison. But for Putin it won't be. When the Panama Papers were released this year, implicating Russian oligarchs in shielding their wealth in offshore accounts, there was little interest inside Russia. Most Russians expect their leaders to be corrupt.

The effect of a disclosure by the Obama administration though would be apparent in the West. Putin may not care whether his citizens know how corrupt he is. But I bet his Western bankers and business partners do. Fiona Hill, a senior fellow and Russia expert at the Brookings Institution, told me Monday: "The one thing about revealing this information is that it would stigmatize his wealth. This is shining a spotlight on him and his allies.""
 
The least we can do is up our game a bit:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/wage-hybrid-war-kremlin-222813395.html

"It’s easy enough to decry Russian interference, but it’s hard to know what to do about it. As a first step, it is imperative to document and expose Kremlin machinations, which is why it’s important to probe the hacking of the U.S. election. Congressional investigations, as called for by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker Paul Ryan, would be one possible approach, but the failed Benghazi committee shows the dangers of congressional grandstanding and partisanship. A better approach, because it would be more serious and nonpartisan, would be an independent commission modeled on the one that probed 9/11; it could be headed by former CIA Directors Michael Hayden and Leon Panetta.

But public exposure alone is not enough to make Putin cease and desist; indeed, documenting Russia’s schemes could actually enhance his aura of power by showing how cleverly he manipulates his adversaries. President Barack Obama has been shamefully derelict in making Putin pay a price for his aggression. Although his administration has threatened retaliation against Russia, he has not, insofar as we know, delivered. “We’d have all these circular meetings,” one senior State Department official told the New York Times, “in which everyone agreed you had to push back at the Russians and push back hard. But it didn’t happen.” Among reasons for inaction, the Times cites the president’s “fear of escalating a cyberwar, and concern that the United States needed Russia’s cooperation in negotiations over Syria.” (As if Russia had any intention of cooperating with the United States in Syria!) His failure to more actively oppose Russian efforts during the campaign may have cost Hillary Clinton the election. It’s hard to imagine Donald Trump, the beneficiary of Russia’s cyberattacks, doing much about it, but Obama still has a few weeks in office to act.

Possible responses can run the gamut from further sanctions — including financial and travel freezes on individuals responsible for the hacking — to retaliation in kind. Putin likes leaking Western emails. How would he like it if the National Security Agency leaked the communications between him and his cronies? Or if the U.S. intelligence community released details about his widely rumored overseas bank accounts? This could undermine his hold on power by puncturing his aura of self-righteousness and could even lead to asset freezes that would punish him in the pocketbook."
 
Gameface said:
Increase our cyber security and take offensive (cyber)action against proven offenders. That's what I think we should do about it.

You jackasses keep acting like we want this to change the outcome of the election. Please join reality. Please wake the **** up! Trump will be the president. No one is even talking about that. that's not the issue. If what you want to do is say "haha Trump's the President bitches!" then go ahead. But if you want to have a voice at the big boy's table maybe you should figure out that's not what we're even talking about.

Some of the ****tiest winners in recent history. Let us all know when you're done rubbing it in that you managed to elect a ****ing clown to be President of the United States.
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Wow, there is such a divide in communication. I clearly misinterpret some of the things your trying to say in your posts. You definitely misinterpret mine. If you think I said what you claim I said above then we're not even close to hearing one another.

That said, your first sentence seems like a pretty good answer. Can you describe what offensive cyber action is?
 
fishonjazz said:
Easy.
Try even harder to prevent it from happening and try to make there be some consequences.
Maybe try to figure out the reasoning behind the hacking and what they are trying to get out of it and stop them from getting what they want.
Definitely investigate it as much as possible and gather as much info as possible.

What we shouldn't do about it is act like they have done us a favor, or look the other way and just sweep it under the rug and don't talk about it. We should take it very seriously.




This.
Obviously.
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I agree with the first part of what you say. As for doing us a favor, there are clearly vastly differing opinions on Hillary. To those of us who see her as an icon of political corruption and elitism I guess you could say we see exposing who she really is and how her political machine is run as a favor. I also think that the person who exposed the offensive tapes of Trump talking about women did us a favor. I hope that both Clinton and Trump improve their behavior as a result of being exposed. I won't be shocked if they focus instead on improving their security to prevent their behavior from being exposed.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I agree with the first part of what you say. As for doing us a favor, there are clearly vastly differing opinions on Hillary. To those of us who see her as an icon of political corruption and elitism I guess you could say we see exposing who she really is and how her political machine is run as a favor. I also think that the person who exposed the offensive tapes of Trump talking about women did us a favor. I hope that both Clinton and Trump improve their behavior as a result of being exposed. I won't be shocked if they focus instead on improving their security to prevent their behavior from being exposed.
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Good post. I don't disagree with any of it.

For me trump, dnc, emails, ballots, and russia are just variables inside the issue/problem.
It could be china exposing George Bush for sleeping with a 12 year old during the last election and messing with the voters back then. (That's just a made up hypothetical for a random example with different variables)
It makes no difference to me. Other countries messing with our elections for their own reasons will always concern me and anytime it happens I think we should be upset about it and our authorities should investigate it and try to do something about it.
 
Gameface said:
Increase our cyber security and take offensive (cyber)action against proven offenders. That's what I think we should do about it.

You jackasses keep acting like we want this to change the outcome of the election. Please join reality. Please wake the **** up! Trump will be the president. No one is even talking about that. that's not the issue. If what you want to do is say "haha Trump's the President bitches!" then go ahead. But if you want to have a voice at the big boy's table maybe you should figure out that's not what we're even talking about.

Some of the ****tiest winners in recent history. Let us all know when you're done rubbing it in that you managed to elect a ****ing clown to be President of the United States.
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Whoa whoa take a seet fella. Some of you all acting like info is a bad thing.

Look I get it I do not want Russia influencing are elections but let us look at the facts. America has lead the charge in influencing elections since Ronald Reagan.

We are not saying foreign influence is a bad thing what we are saying is liberal democrats have been taking foreign money for decades an the Supreme Court says that was okay. We are saying more information is alway a good thing even if it is illegal info. Information is always good.
 
Boris said:
We are saying more information is alway a good thing even if it is illegal info. Information is always good.
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That's like saying patriotism and unity is always a good thing so we should help terrorists crash planes into our buildings more often cause when terrorists strike patriotism and unity increases.
 
I would rather discuss what Trump will do to healthcare but modstapo stops me from creating threads cause you an the neg crew keep me from doing so.

I think President Trump will lower are costs by finally cutting are pharmaceuticals costs. America has never negotiated with pharma like every other country does. Why? Trump is going to go after this in his Obamacare rehab an save us all thousands of dollars. If you think not true you are dumb an buy in to the republicans an liberals narrative for the last decade.

Trump is different an he actually cares. He listens an wants to fix things not play politician.
 
Gameface said:
Increase our cyber security and take offensive (cyber)action against proven offenders. That's what I think we should do about it.

You jackasses keep acting like we want this to change the outcome of the election. Please join reality. Please wake the **** up! Trump will be the president. No one is even talking about that. that's not the issue. If what you want to do is say "haha Trump's the President bitches!" then go ahead. But if you want to have a voice at the big boy's table maybe you should figure out that's not what we're even talking about.

Some of the ****tiest winners in recent history. Let us all know when you're done rubbing it in that you managed to elect a ****ing clown to be President of the United States.
Click to expand...

Its better that we elected a ****ing clown than an evil monster. Is it not?
 
Gameface said:
Increase our cyber security and take offensive (cyber)action against proven offenders. That's what I think we should do about it.

You jackasses keep acting like we want this to change the outcome of the election. Please join reality. Please wake the **** up! Trump will be the president. No one is even talking about that. that's not the issue. If what you want to do is say "haha Trump's the President bitches!" then go ahead. But if you want to have a voice at the big boy's table maybe you should figure out that's not what we're even talking about.

Some of the ****tiest winners in recent history. Let us all know when you're done rubbing it in that you managed to elect a ****ing clown to be President of the United States.
Click to expand...

Maybe not on JF but it was definitely out there.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/dec/12/russia-hack-fuels-bid-electoral-college-dump-trump/
 
Man there have been some terrible posts in this thread...

I can't understand how Game and Fishon stand it. Reps for you guys for sticking through it.

Dutch is still here? I thought that troll left a long time ago or was banned.
 
LogGrad98 said:
This will forever be the crux of the debate.
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only for ppl who think that presidents alone form policy.


The ppl who Hillary would have surrounded herself with > this clown-show cabinet that Trump is putting together
 
The Thriller said:
Man there have been some terrible posts in this thread...

I can't understand how Game and Fishon stand it. Reps for you guys for sticking through it.

Dutch is still here? I thought that troll left a long time ago or was banned.
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missed you too man, yes i got banned! but like a phoenix I rose from the land of banishment. soaring glorious in the sky!
to return to save jazzfanz from being boring!
 
dalamon said:
only for ppl who think that presidents alone form policy.


The ppl who Hillary would have surrounded herself with > this clown-show cabinet that Trump is putting together
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i was scared trump was a liberal in conservative clothing.

but his cabinet is awesome.
filled with anti semites and racist!!


GLORIOUS!


ofcourse i dont think its filled with anti Semites and racist there is 0.0 proof of that. yet the corrupt left leaning media is making u think those are racist anti semites, and they cant use racist on ben carson so they label him stupid!
 
Red said:
[MENTION=2298]Computer[/MENTION], although I suggested that the hypocracy you pointed out was broader then the subject matter at hand, what the hey, it's not irrelevant, so here's one for your point of view:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/16/...22E1F0D99647087FC92&gwt=pay&assetType=opinion
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Lol. Wtf.

After 10 articles free a month I now have to pay to read the New York Times? LMAO. Not a chance. What a joke that people would pay for news, let alone liberal biased news.
 
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