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My faith in Exum has been broken

The problem with knee tendinitis is that it's a degenerative type injury, therefor without rest he will likely suffer a more serious knee injury like a ACL tear or ruptured patella tendon.
He obviously had issues before which contributed to the ACL injury. He needs to be rested ASAP.

Hopfefully some of you guys understand that this would definitely have been affecting his play and we'll get a better idea of his talents once he's feeling 100%.
 
vossy_3 said:
The problem with knee tendinitis is that it's a degenerative type injury, therefor without rest he will likely suffer a more serious knee injury like a ACL tear or ruptured patella tendon.
He obviously had issues before which contributed to the ACL injury. He needs to be rested ASAP.

Hopfefully some of you guys understand that this would definitely have been affecting his play and we'll get a better idea of his talents once he's feeling 100%.
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DownerUnder has already weighed in on this topic:



"what planet are you living on dude ? Exum is managing tenditinits also as part of his continued rehab/management of his knee"



"and you know better ? Are you an orthopedic specialist ? You do realise experienced specialist sports doctors with access to the actual details of their conditions are actually managing them i'm sure ??"



"everyone's an expert You don't really know any detail about what they are or aren't dealing with. Kinda tired of armchair experts posting their unfounded opinions"
 
stitches said:
I think watching Frank Ntilikina last couple of days broke my confidence in Exum. He's everything I wanted Exum to be + more. And the more I watched him the more I realized he has things that Exum never had and never will and those things are much more important in the league than marginal advantage in speed.

Exum was a great youth player and I was super high on him and I've been one of his biggest defenders on this board, but his handle and his shot were never good(and I expected he will improve but he has not progressed at all in those areas). He relied on quickness to beat people off the dribble and draw fouls and we've seen this just doesn't cut it in the league - you cannot live in the league on quickness when even when you beat your man, you don't have the touch to finish in the paint or the shot to pull up from midrange. I'd trade a bit of Exum's quickness for a lot more skill and shooting. With his shooting mechanic(his shot is a set shot), I don't EVER see him being able to shoot off the dribble consistently. Frank Ntilikina pulls up without a problem or hesitation, step backs... crossover into pullups... His handle is still shaky in traffic like Exum's, but I think I trust his skill and handle and shooting RIGHT NOW much more than I trust Exum's ... ever.

I think my faith in Exum has been broken... believe me, I'd love nothing more than for him to prove me wrong. A couple of years ago I got my first ever NBA jersey and was an Exum one, I really believed in him, but for various of reasons(the injury being the main one) it seems like he's not anywhere close to where we expected he'd be at this point. Of course, I'm open to be proven wrong, but at this point I'd say - I will believe it when I see it... Does that make me a bad fan?
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You're funny cling broken. This is his second ****ing year coming off a major knee injury!!!! Idiot!!
 
vossy_3 said:
Yes it makes you a bad fan.

Patience is required for some young guys, and you've turned on him after 20 games following an ACL injury.

Knee tendinitis is an absolute killer to deal with if your not getting any rest. He will be fine once his knee injury completely heals.
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Thee jazz fan said:
You're funny cling broken. This is his second ****ing year coming off a major knee injury!!!! Idiot!!
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This has nothing to do with his ACL injury and his rehabilitation. I was defending him against people saying he's playing bad just a week ago. I'm not criticizing him for playing bad - I expected that and I didn't have high hopes for his season. I defended him just a week ago when people were saying he's made no strides. This is NOT true... he's much more aggressive and he's going to the rim a lot more and finishing better(still not great) there. Here Quin is doing him no favors like someone mentioned above. I think he's being mishandled. You cannot tell a player, I want you to be more aggressive, you can't be afraid to make mistakes and then when he does it, you yank him out of the game on every mistake he makes. This is not helping.

I'm talking strictly skills and projecting his skills for the future here. If he's ever going to have a consistent pullup game, I think he probably needs to break down and reconstruct his whole shot. I can't see him ever being a threat off the dribble with his current one. And when we are talking about dribble - it's ridiculous how shaky his handle is. I've never seen a PG with more shaky handles especially against pressure or in traffic. I see very little improvement from when he entered the league and with him being sidelined for more than a year, for more than half of which he was probably able to work on it, I expected to see serious progress. It's not there. He still has no hesitation move, he still can't split a double team to save his life. Those are relatively simple things and things any PG in the league should have.
 
str8line said:
DownerUnder has already weighed in on this topic:



"what planet are you living on dude ? Exum is managing tenditinits also as part of his continued rehab/management of his knee"



"and you know better ? Are you an orthopedic specialist ? You do realise experienced specialist sports doctors with access to the actual details of their conditions are actually managing them i'm sure ??"



"everyone's an expert You don't really know any detail about what they are or aren't dealing with. Kinda tired of armchair experts posting their unfounded opinions"
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lol would you like a tissue to mop up your bitter tears ?

I'd say the same thing to Vossy .. he's really got no idea what he's talking about. Like it or lump it that's the truth
 
So there's one camp that says he's a bust or close to it and another that says he's playing better than George Hill. I can't agree with either one of these positions and perhaps I'm in the majority here with the camp that says we need to be patient. I do feel a bit unique in that I feel as though his issues are more mental than physical. I realize he has a rehab protocol and that he is not always available but I don't feel like the tendinitis is effecting his play as much as his confidence on any given night. What I see is inconsistency in a player that is super aggressive in spurts and super passive at other times (deer in the headlights). This is not uncommon for an athlete in a learning phase as nothing is second nature and the self consciousness creeps in. This kid was about as raw as they come for an NBA prospect in terms of his skill set but was drafted based on elite quickness and length. I'd like to see him develop more confidence but I'm not ready to throw him under the "Bust" yet, not by a long shot.
 
Release the Kraken said:
So there's one camp that says he's a bust or close to it and another that says he's playing better than George Hill. I can't agree with either one of these positions and perhaps I'm in the majority here with the camp that says we need to be patient. I do feel a bit unique in that I feel as though his issues are more mental than physical. I realize he has a rehab protocol and that he is not always available but I don't feel like the tendinitis is effecting his play as much as his confidence on any given night. What I see is inconsistency in a player that is super aggressive in spurts and super passive at other times (deer in the headlights). This is not uncommon for an athlete in a learning phase as nothing is second nature and the self consciousness creeps in. This kid was about as raw as they come for an NBA prospect in terms of his skill set but was drafted based on elite quickness and length. I'd like to see him develop more confidence but I'm not ready to throw him under the "Bust" yet, not by a long shot.
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Can you stop talking such reasonable common sense plz ?? It's not welcome
 
LOL. Just realized Cy was the same guy who like Ty Corbin I think (hence Cyrone Torbin) and wanted to give him a chance. Sometimes, things are just so blatantly obvious and it's clear that Exum isn't very good.
 
And fwiw, I'm not some Exum hater. I wanted him to be the pick at 5 and see him kill it. He hasn't. At all.
 
I think Exum is an NBA player but expectations need to seriously be lowered. My whole problem is he can be okay/solid but there is nothing I think is super special... it happens and it's okay to acknowledge it and move on. He will be paid a premium for what he is in a year and a half which is when we have some serious cap crunches. His development just won't happen fast enough to add a lot of value. Some of that is not his fault with the injury.

I just think we might get more value by moving on and long term it might be a better fit for him too. We continue down this path with him it may prove to be quite costly.
 
Cunning Linguist said:
LOL. Just realized Cy was the same guy who like Ty Corbin I think (hence Cyrone Torbin) and wanted to give him a chance. Sometimes, things are just so blatantly obvious and it's clear that Exum isn't very good.
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Cy is a contrarian... which he will deny... because that's what contrarians do
 
Ron Mexico said:
We are not worse with him on the court.




LINEUPS TEAM GP MIN OFFRTG DEFRTG NETRTG AST% AST/TO AST RATIO OREB% DREB% REB% TO RATIO EFG% TS% PACE PIE
B.Diaw, D.Exum, R.Gobert, G.Hayward, R.Hood UTA 8 85 114.9 81.4 33.6 60.3 2.16 19.9 14.0 74.7 50.7 0.1 58.7 61.8 88.85 74.8
B.Diaw, R.Gobert, G.Hayward, G.Hill, R.Hood UTA 4 57 119.4 94.6 24.8 52.1 2.27 16.4 28.3 83.9 58.8 0.1 52.0 58.7 94.88 67.8

There is the comparison of the same lineup with Exum and with Hill. That lineup this season has been better when Exum is with it than Hill and Hill has been playing crazy good. Those also happen to be our two most played 5 man lineup.

If its too hard to read the biggest take away is that the Net rating for the Jazz is 33.6 with Exum vs 24.8 with Hill.

I dont think it is that Exum is better but he he is a better defender and he does a good job of getting the ball into play makers hands quickly on offense.

Exum has a positive net rating on the court.
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This is one lineup and is extremely limited... Exum is also part of our worst 5 man lineup, but I'm guessing you looked past that.

When games have turned he has been a big part of it with mistakes... his live-ball turnovers almost always result in baskets on the other end.

Hill is near the top of PGs in Real Plus Minus which accounts for the players production, the other players they share the court with, and plus minus data. Exum is near the bottom. Even insinuating that they are comparable players is pretty silly. Exum is not a better defender than Hill.
 
Its quite clear that Exum scared and mentally slow.

I don't expect him to ever be a good NBA player. Fringe maybe, but that's it.

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Cunning Linguist said:
LOL. Just realized Cy was the same guy who like Ty Corbin I think (hence Cyrone Torbin) and wanted to give him a chance. Sometimes, things are just so blatantly obvious and it's clear that Exum isn't very good.
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Yeah, not the reason for my name at all. Just needed a name change after Dwill trade and I thought it sounded funny.

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Handlogten's Heros said:
I think Exum is an NBA player but expectations need to seriously be lowered. My whole problem is he can be okay/solid but there is nothing I think is super special... it happens and it's okay to acknowledge it and move on. He will be paid a premium for what he is in a year and a half which is when we have some serious cap crunches. His development just won't happen fast enough to add a lot of value. Some of that is not his fault with the injury.

I just think we might get more value by moving on and long term it might be a better fit for him too. We continue down this path with him it may prove to be quite costly.
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Is he though? Imagine he never improves his shot and handle(he doesn't seem to have improved them noticeably since we drafted him). Is he an NBA player? Imagine he is not as good as Andre Roberson on D. Now imagine you cannot give him the ball to create anything on offense and you cannot create 3p shots for him on offense cause he's hitting them at 30%... Is he an NBA player if that's the case?
 
stitches said:
This has nothing to do with his ACL injury and his rehabilitation. I was defending him against people saying he's playing bad just a week ago. I'm not criticizing him for playing bad - I expected that and I didn't have high hopes for his season. I defended him just a week ago when people were saying he's made no strides. This is NOT true... he's much more aggressive and he's going to the rim a lot more and finishing better(still not great) there. Here Quin is doing him no favors like someone mentioned above. I think he's being mishandled. You cannot tell a player, I want you to be more aggressive, you can't be afraid to make mistakes and then when he does it, you yank him out of the game on every mistake he makes. This is not helping.

I'm talking strictly skills and projecting his skills for the future here. If he's ever going to have a consistent pullup game, I think he probably needs to break down and reconstruct his whole shot. I can't see him ever being a threat off the dribble with his current one. And when we are talking about dribble - it's ridiculous how shaky his handle is. I've never seen a PG with more shaky handles especially against pressure or in traffic. I see very little improvement from when he entered the league and with him being sidelined for more than a year, for more than half of which he was probably able to work on it, I expected to see serious progress. It's not there. He still has no hesitation move, he still can't split a double team to save his life. Those are relatively simple things and things any PG in the league should have.
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No hesitation moves? He has had several.

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stitches said:
Is he though? Imagine he never improves his shot and handle(he doesn't seem to have improved them noticeably since we drafted him). Is he an NBA player? Imagine he is not as good as Andre Roberson on D. Now imagine you cannot give him the ball to create anything on offense and you cannot create 3p shots for him on offense cause he's hitting them at 30%... Is he an NBA player if that's the case?
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Yeah... he's a rotation player. He will grow and he is fast. He will be able to be a decent scorer/driver and is a decent cutter. I don't think he is as good as Roberson on D, but will be able to shoot better than him. One thing lacking in our coaching on defense is teaching guys to take charges. We absolutely suck at it and Dante could be awesome at it... I watch guys drive into his chest as he moves his feet and they knock him back... if he freezes before the contact and hits the deck it's a charge more often than not... Hire JJ Barea or Derek Fisher for a day... teach him the art.

An NBA player is a dude that is in the league... Exum will be that. I think he's the PG version of CJ Miles.
 
stitches said:
Examples? Are you talking about his staple refusal of the screen on the left wing, where from standstill he suddenly crosses over to the left and explodes baseline? I don't really consider this hesitation.
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No, he has shown in and out dribble moves and hang dribble hesitations with change of speed.

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