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2017-2018 Jazz salaries, cap/LT details

fishonjazz said:
Why not favors returns to form and you keep him?

We are thin at bigs right now.
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All I want from Favors is 14/8 with more explosiveness and defense. That would be huge. There's a middle ground where he plays decently and contributes to our success enough so that he makes someone else the odd man out. I think a lot of people are also neglecting that the cap inflation smoothing will start to stabilize salaries.
 
White Chocolate said:
Nobody is going to want him at the trade deadline. He would be going into free agency. Now is the perfect time to trade him. I'd do Favors for Carroll and 23. We could do some serious trade damage with 3 firsts and we solve the question of who is the odd man out (Favors, Hood, Exum).


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Expiring contracts at the deadline are usually worth something.
 
White Chocolate said:
Favors isn't going to be on the team long-term. I don't really see it unless he's willing to take another extension at a discount.


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Why wouldn't he be on the team long term.
Let's say next year he is healthy, plays phenomenal defense next to rudy to the point that the jazz defense is historically good and averages between 15 and 20 points per game.

Why wouldn't we keep him?
Money? So you let hood and exum go and find a way to keep him. Plus he likes it here and has a history of taking a discount.
Guys of favors physical and athletic nature are way harder to come by than that of a guy like hood or exum. Plus favors plays a position (2 positions actually) of need that we are thin at.

I absolutely think he stays here long term if he gets and stays healthy and plays well.
 
infection said:
All I want from Favors is 14/8 with more explosiveness and defense. That would be huge. There's a middle ground where he plays decently and contributes to our success enough so that he makes someone else the odd man out. I think a lot of people are also neglecting that the cap inflation smoothing will start to stabilize salaries.
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This. We're not so dependent on his scoring like we once were. Hayward, Gobert, and Ingles are all much more capable scorers than even just a year ago and we also added Hill and Johnson. Favors just needs to be like Rasheed was on the Pistons. Another strong interior defender with some solid scoring to boot. Of course Rasheed could stretch the floor and I said it last summer and I'll say it again. I really want Favors shooting 200-250 3 pointers a day for the next five months. There's no reason like Millsap and other bigs, he can't evolve into a guy capable of hitting 35+% from three.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
This. We're not so dependent on his scoring like we once were. Hayward, Gobert, and Ingles are all much more capable scorers than even just a year ago and we also added Hill and Johnson. Favors just needs to be like Rasheed was on the Pistons. Another strong interior defender with some solid scoring to boot. Of course Rasheed could stretch the floor and I said it last summer and I'll say it again. I really want Favors shooting 200-250 3 pointers a day for the next five months. There's no reason like Millsap and other bigs, he can't evolve into a guy capable of hitting 35+% from three.
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I see no reason he can't be a better 3 point shooter than Millsap. His form looks pretty good and he has at times been a good jump shooter from 2. Also Millsap has been a terrible playoff 3 point shooter so to be usable from 3 he has to be better or he will hurt us.
 
I agree with Fishon...

Guys, even if we decide we like Favors and want to keep him, the Jazz don't have the money to extend him. He's going to be the odd man out. The cap next year is going to be pretty flat, and bumping Favors up to $20M/year (or whatever he's worth on the market) is going to push the Jazz well into the luxury tax. Paying him $14M to primarily back up Rudy is already going to be a problem this coming season and may cost us one or two rotation players.

It makes abundant sense to trade him to relieve cap pressure.

One year from now:

- Hayward is going to make $30M.
- Rudy is going to be $24M.
- George Hill wants $20M at least.
- Ingles, if we keep him, will be around $7 - $8M
- Now you have ~$25M for 9 more roster spots before you hit the luxury tax (Numbers are close, not exact).
- Both Exum and Hood need extensions and will probably make ~$10/year each (minimum). Teams are going to come after both as RFAs.
- Favors is gone, or he's going to cost us Hood and Exum, and probably something else.
 
infection said:
All I want from Favors is 14/8 with more explosiveness and defense. That would be huge. There's a middle ground where he plays decently and contributes to our success enough so that he makes someone else the odd man out. I think a lot of people are also neglecting that the cap inflation smoothing will start to stabilize salaries.
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What price do you think the Jazz would be willing to bring Favors back at w/ that production level?
 
Catchall said:
I agree with Fishon...

Guys, even if we decide we like Favors and want to keep him, the Jazz don't have the money to extend him. He's going to be the odd man out. The cap next year is going to be pretty flat, and bumping Favors up to $20M/year (or whatever he's worth on the market) is going to push the Jazz well into the luxury tax. Paying him $14M to primarily back up Rudy is already going to be a problem this coming season and may cost us one or two rotation players.

It makes abundant sense to trade him to relieve cap pressure.

One year from now:

- Hayward is going to make $30M.
- Rudy is going to be $24M.
- George Hill wants $20M at least.
- Ingles, if we keep him, will be around $7 - $8M
- Now you have ~$25M for 9 more roster spots before you hit the luxury tax (Numbers are close, not exact).
- Both Exum and Hood need extensions and will probably make ~$10/year each (minimum). Teams are going to come after both as RFAs.
- Favors is gone, or he's going to cost us Hood and Exum, and probably something else.
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What?

Fish wants to keep Favors. I think you disagree with Fish.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
This. We're not so dependent on his scoring like we once were. Hayward, Gobert, and Ingles are all much more capable scorers than even just a year ago and we also added Hill and Johnson. Favors just needs to be like Rasheed was on the Pistons. Another strong interior defender with some solid scoring to boot. Of course Rasheed could stretch the floor and I said it last summer and I'll say it again. I really want Favors shooting 200-250 3 pointers a day for the next five months. There's no reason like Millsap and other bigs, he can't evolve into a guy capable of hitting 35+% from three.
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If Favors develops a 3pt shot then that only doubles the already 0% chance we would be able to keep Favors.
 
Ron Mexico said:
I see no reason he can't be a better 3 point shooter than Millsap. His form looks pretty good and he has at times been a good jump shooter from 2. Also Millsap has been a terrible playoff 3 point shooter so to be usable from 3 he has to be better or he will hurt us.
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His form is hideous. Well maybe hideous is strong, but it isnt good at all. He struggles with consistency from the FT line. He has a very mechanical release.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
What price do you think the Jazz would be willing to bring Favors back at w/ that production level?
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I believe a 14/8 guy is much more expensive on the market this year than next year. The cap jumped and everyone blew their money because they had it. It's not sustainable. When guys a tier below all star level (and sometimes 2 tiers) are taking up 25% of your cap, it won't long be sustainable that non-all-stars are getting $20/yr offers. This reality starts to hit hard next year. $13/yr could be possible. If he plays better than 14/8 then could make more. Of course I could be wrong on the cap, but if you added another 10 teams to the league, there still wouldn't be enough cap space in the world to keep offering role players $20 million per year. In 2018-2019 you've still got Demarre on the hook for $15.4 million. I'd rather have that amount on Favors with two more years on it. If he plays himself out of that price then that's a good thing -- it means we're really going to kick *** next year. Remember, it's conceivable we gave up the 12th pick for a year of George Hill. Even playing 51 games or whatever, it was worth it. I'm willing to give up the 23rd pick for a year of Favors.
 
infection said:
I believe a 14/8 guy is much more expensive on the market this year than next year. The cap jumped and everyone blew their money because they had it. It's not sustainable. When guys a tier below all star level (and sometimes 2 tiers) are taking up 25% of your cap, it won't long be sustainable that non-all-stars are getting $20/yr offers. This reality starts to hit hard next year. $13/yr could be possible. If he plays better than 14/8 then could make more. Of course I could be wrong on the cap, but if you added another 10 teams to the league, there still wouldn't be enough cap space in the world to keep offering role players $20 million per year. In 2018-2019 you've still got Demarre on the hook for $15.4 million. I'd rather have that amount on Favors with two more years on it. If he plays himself out of that price then that's a good thing -- it means we're really going to kick *** next year. Remember, it's conceivable we gave up the 12th pick for a year of George Hill. Even playing 51 games or whatever, it was worth it. I'm willing to give up the 23rd pick for a year of Favors.
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What would be the maximum the Jazz would be willing to pay at that production level?
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
What would be the maximum the Jazz would be willing to pay at that production level?
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I have no idea. If he plays well enough that his play directly relates to us being contenders it changes the equation. I believe the Millers pay the bill if it means legitimate contention (and I've always maintained that belief). Especially as Gail likely sees the Jazz as the ultimate legacy of her and Larry's life work, to bring that to a climax in the twilight years of life would have a significant meaning, one would think.
 
Tristan Thompson is getting 5 years/ $80M to put up 8pts and 9rebs. If Favors regains 80% of his form and puts up 13/8 with good efficiency, he's going to want a better deal than that, and someone's going to give it to him. It most likely doesn't matter what the Jazz want to re-sign him for. He'll be looking at 4 years/$85M under the new cap. Joaquim Noah got 4 years/$72M last year even though he was in steep decline. Not saying these are good deals, but it shows the market.
 
Catchall said:
Tristan Thompson is getting 5 years/ $80M to put up 8pts and 9rebs. If Favors regains 80% of his form and puts up 13/8 with good efficiency, he's going to want a better deal than that, and someone's going to give it to him. It most likely doesn't matter what the Jazz want to re-sign him for. He'll be looking at 4 years/$85M under the new cap. Joaquim Noah got 4 years/$72M last year even though he was in steep decline. Not saying these are good deals, but it shows the market.
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He did happily take a discount to stay with the Jazz last time. Things might have changed for him but they might not have. He could have held out and got the max or close to the max like Hayward did.

Besides I think it is worth the risk of letting him play next year to see if he is healthy to at the very least drive up his trade value. It is at the lowest it has ever been for Favors, it could go lower if he is still hurt next year but I think it is more likely he is at least a little more healthy to start next year.

Unless he fetches something good or his salary is needed to bring someone like PG13.
 
Favors played it safe and took an extension below the max last time. He did what Hayward didn't do. But even if he were willing to extend at his current deal, it's still likely to prevent us from extending Hood and/or Exum, depending on how far into the tax the Jazz are willing to go.
 
infection said:
I have no idea. If he plays well enough that his play directly relates to us being contenders it changes the equation. I believe the Millers pay the bill if it means legitimate contention (and I've always maintained that belief). Especially as Gail likely sees the Jazz as the ultimate legacy of her and Larry's life work, to bring that to a climax in the twilight years of life would have a significant meaning, one would think.
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I just find it hard to believe Favors is the guy who brings us to that level. Unless he sees a witch doctor for his knees and back I just dont see him returning to his athletic prime and he just isnt that great if he isnt the athlete he is use to being.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I just find it hard to believe Favors is the guy who brings us to that level. Unless he sees a witch doctor for his knees and back I just dont see him returning to his athletic prime and he just isnt that great if he isnt the athlete he is use to being.
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I'm not saying he will -- I'm giving you the conditions under which we'd be willing to re-sign him for a significantly larger amount.
 
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