2017-2018 Jazz salaries, cap/LT details

[infection]

You are completely ignoring the acquiring of the 23rd pick and just focusing on Demarre Carroll like that is the point of the trade, to get Demarre Carroll. That isnt the point of the trade.

I would not trade Favors for Demarre.

I would not trade Favors for the 23rd pick.

I would not trade Favors for the Demarre and the 23rd pick.

I would not trade Favors here or there.

I would not trade Favors anywhere.

We do not like them, Cy the guy.

We do not like those trades you make.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I would not trade Favors for Demarre.

I would not trade Favors for the 23rd pick.

I would not trade Favors for the Demarre and the 23rd pick.

I would not trade Favors here or there.

I would not trade Favors anywhere.

We do not like them, Cy the guy.

We do not like those trades you make.

You wouldnt trade Favors straight up for the 23rd pick if you could?

Cmon man.

 

[infection]

You wouldnt trade Favors straight up for the 23rd pick if you could?

Cmon man.

No. The chances of Favors returning to a reasonable form are far greater than that 23rd pick (or whatever you think you'll then package that with) contributing in a meaningful way in the next 4-5 years. Yeah, it could happen, but Favors returning is more likely. Yeah, I get he's a free agent next year. I roll the dice on it.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

No. The chances of Favors returning to a reasonable form are far greater than that 23rd pick (or whatever you think you'll then package that with) contributing in a meaningful way in the next 4-5 years. Yeah, it could happen, but Favors returning is more likely. Yeah, I get he's a free agent next year. I roll the dice on it.

How can we afford Favors on his next contract if he proves he is still a starting level PF? Why does Favors stay to be backup in the case he doesnt prove he is a starting level PF?

He is either too expensive or becomes too disenchanted with his role in Utah. There is clearly going to have to be a choice between Favors, Exum, and Hood. We can't bring all 3 back, even at fair deals. Gaining an asset for Favors is a good move this off-season, especially an asset that can be used in another trade and to get a rotation wing defender (something everyone here has agreed is a need for this team).

 

[Miggs]

1. We know definitively that the offer was 4/80?

2. On what date was that offer made?

3. Can whatever cap space we have this past 16/17 season be used in the deal if it's inked before 7/1 and if so, would that amount count against our 16/17 cap like I assume it would? I mention that because of a March 1st espn article in which it stated: "Therefore, the best offer Utah could make Hill was for $88.3 million to be committed to the Jazz through the 2019-20 season, which computes to a three-year, $74.7 million extension plus the $13.6 million of available cap space this season." So, can we STILL do this?

Anyone?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

1. We know definitively that the offer was 4/80?

2. On what date was that offer made?

3. Can whatever cap space we have this past 16/17 season be used in the deal if it's inked before 7/1 and if so, would that amount count against our 16/17 cap like I assume it would? I mention that because of a March 1st espn article in which it stated: "Therefore, the best offer Utah could make Hill was for $88.3 million to be committed to the Jazz through the 2019-20 season, which computes to a three-year, $74.7 million extension plus the $13.6 million of available cap space this season." So, can we STILL do this?

It was a 3 year 80 million deal.

 

[Miggs]

My point was if he turned down 4/80, that was before his rash of late season injuries. He may accept that now. I also wonder if he would accept 5/90. If you're him, do you really think you're getting 10M for one year at age 36? Probably not. And yeah five years sucks but that's just 18 a year and would be around just 16 and then 17 the first two years. That's huge in being able to retain some of our own guys next summer and not going 25M over the LT. Unless he completely falls off a cliff too, that contract is very tradable imo.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

My point was if he turned down 4/80, that was before his rash of late season injuries. He may accept that now. I also wonder if he would accept 5/90. Yeah five years sucks but that's just 18 a year and would be around just 16 and then 17 the first two years. That's huge in being able to retain some of our own guys next summer and not going 25M over the LT.

The Jazz arent using their 5 year contract on Hill..... Cmon man.

 

[infection]

How can we afford Favors on his next contract if he proves he is still a starting level PF? Why does Favors stay to be backup in the case he doesnt prove he is a starting level PF?

He is either too expensive or becomes too disenchanted with his role in Utah. There is clearly going to have to be a choice between Favors, Exum, and Hood. We can't bring all 3 back, even at fair deals. Gaining an asset for Favors is a good move this off-season, especially an asset that can be used in another trade and to get a rotation wing defender (something everyone here has agreed is a need for this team).

We've been in asset accumulation mode for 7 years and it's time to cash in. If Favors returns to form then that's a good problem to have. My view is that you use more energy pushing this vehicle (team) up to 60 wins. It will be a lot easier to sustain that than it would be to get there because the dynamics and psychology completely change. If he returns to form and it helps us be legit contenders then that's a big question where Favors and the Miller group have to evaluate how much dividends title contention is worth. Or we could go get Carroll and take the strong risk of getting Burke'd or Lyles'd at 23.

If Favors becomes the rocket that launches us past the stratosphere and we detach saying fairwell when we're in orbit, then I wouldn't consider that a lost asset or a squandered opportunity.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

We've been in asset accumulation mode for 7 years and it's time to cash in. If Favors returns to form then that's a good problem to have. My view is that you use more energy pushing this vehicle (team) up to 60 wins. It will be a lot easier to sustain that than it would be to get there because the dynamics and psychology completely change. If he returns to form and it helps us be legit contenders then that's a big question where Favors and the Miller group have to evaluate how much dividends title contention is worth. Or we could go get Carroll and take the strong risk of getting Burke'd or Lyles'd at 23.

Again, you are ignoring the fact that if they get the 23rd pick that the chance they keep 3 first round picks is slim. There would be another trade.

It's not like they would just get an asset and sit on their hands. It's asset accumulation to make trades. Favors does not compliment Hayward/Gobert.

 

[fishonjazz]

How can we afford Favors on his next contract if he proves he is still a starting level PF? Why does Favors stay to be backup in the case he doesnt prove he is a starting level PF?

He is either too expensive or becomes too disenchanted with his role in Utah. There is clearly going to have to be a choice between Favors, Exum, and Hood. We can't bring all 3 back, even at fair deals. Gaining an asset for Favors is a good move this off-season, especially an asset that can be used in another trade and to get a rotation wing defender (something everyone here has agreed is a need for this team).

You answered your own question from the first sentence in your second paragragh.

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[Saint Cy of JFC]

You answered your own question from the first sentence in your second paragragh.

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So then you agree next year will be Favors last year in Utah and you don't want to recoup any value for him?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

If adding the 23rd pick to the Jazz's assets makes a deal for Paul George possible does this change your opinion on dealing the precious last year of hobbled Favors?

 

[infection]

Again, you are ignoring the fact that if they get the 23rd pick that the chance they keep 3 first round picks is slim. There would be another trade.

I've already addressed that. I wouldn't be interested.

Favors does not compliment Hayward/Gobert.

If you mean complement, then yeah, a hobbled Favors isn't complementing anyone right now. Expecting him to return to good form is a gamble. A much smaller gamble than the 23rd, or what you can get by packaging those picks, would be.

 

[infection]

If adding the 23rd pick to the Jazz's assets makes a deal for Paul George possible does this change your opinion on dealing the precious last year of hobbled Favors?

I'm very lukewarm on the idea of Paul George.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I've already addressed that. I wouldn't be interested.



If you mean complement, then yeah, a hobbled Favors isn't complementing anyone right now. Expecting him to return to good form is a gamble. A much smaller gamble than the 23rd, or what you can get by packaging those picks, would be.

Is it a smaller gamble?

The gamble on Favors is: Can Favors help the Jazz win a championship in the next 4 years?

The gamble on the 23rd pick is: Can the 23rd pick help the Jazz trade up in the draft, trade for another player, or develop into a rotation player to help the Jazz win a championship in the next 4 years?

Keep in mind we will only have Favors for 1 more year, so he wont be any help to the Jazz outside of the 1st year.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'm very lukewarm on the idea of Paul George.

But you are all in on keeping Favors for a year?

 

[fishonjazz]

So then you agree next year will be Favors last year in Utah and you don't want to recoup any value for him?

No, I agree that we would have to choose between exum, hood and favors and we can't keep all three.

 

[Quin's Murderface]

Yeah, but in the scenario Favors proves healthy enough to play PF and play it well enough to start, we can't afford him next year. The Jazz have to start maneuvering their pieces around Gobert/Hayward to set-up long-term success at a price that isnt going to make them a huge repeat LT offender. I think it's pretty clear paying Favors isnt in the long-term plans

I see 0 scenarios where Favors and his agent decide to stay in Utah.

Carroll doesnt have to get a ton of minutes. Favors only averaged 24 mpg this year. It's easy to workout the minutes in the 3/4 rotation.

SG: Hood (28)/ Ingles (20)
SF: Hayward (35)/ Carroll (8)/Ingles(5)
PF: Johnson (24)/Lyles(12)/Carroll(12)

Johnson is an old man, he isnt going to be playing a ton of minutes next year. And of course the Jazz arent even guaranteed to be able to retain Ingles.

Hood is injury prone, so minutes will open up. We need more defensive versatility at the 3 position. Carroll can still play D (his advanced defensive numbers still point to him being a positive on that end) and shoot and I nearly guarantee he would be better in Utah's motion system than the Raptors ISO ball system.

And again, you are doing it to get the 23rd pick. Then you have 3 first round picks. That's more assets to trade up in the draft or get an impact player in a trade.

I dislike the Carroll option because I don't think he is an ideal fit, but I think you are correct about the Favors thing. If he is back to form next season the Jazz can't afford him and they will lose him in FA. If he isn't back to form, he might not be worth very much, and most likely won't want to be a backup here anyway. To me that shows that the team almost has to trade him this season, or just accept that next year will be his last.

I'd prefer a trade for a better fitting 4, a PG, or a combo wing if we are dealing Favors. After those things I would prefer future picks. But I'm just not a fan of Demarre for his contract.

 

[fishonjazz]

If adding the 23rd pick to the Jazz's assets makes a deal for Paul George possible does this change your opinion on dealing the precious last year of hobbled Favors?

Yes. They can keep carroll doe

In fact we could try trading favors to other teams for picks and/or players even.
I don't think the Raptors are the only option for a favors trade. (I'm not against trading favors as you can see. I just don't like that particular favors trade)

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