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2017-2018 Jazz salaries, cap/LT details

Cappy_Smurf said:
I can read 3 words that you might have a problem with.

Or

Other

Operations


Get back to me with your expert definitions of these words. Thanks.
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lmao, so you think the Millers are secretly taking money out of the trust to spend at their leisure? I think the Millers are higher class than that.

Either way, I was right. You can view it with a veil of pessimism that the Millers are secretly siphoning money out of the trust, but the trust states that no profit will be made by the owners and will be used to fund the Utah Jazz operations.
 
Catchall said:
Hill turned down the Jazz's $80M extension offer because his agent said he could get a full max on the open market. If Hill's market has cooled now and he's willing to accept the same deal with the Jazz, then so be it. But clearly, he was holding out to see if he could get more money.
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1. We know definitively that the offer was 4/80?

2. On what date was that offer made?

3. Can whatever cap space we have this past 16/17 season be used in the deal if it's inked before 7/1 and if so, would that amount count against our 16/17 cap like I assume it would? I mention that because of a March 1st espn article in which it stated: "Therefore, the best offer Utah could make Hill was for $88.3 million to be committed to the Jazz through the 2019-20 season, which computes to a three-year, $74.7 million extension plus the $13.6 million of available cap space this season." So, can we STILL do this?
 
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Cappy_Smurf said:
That article doesn't prove what you were saying.

However, I think the Jist is accurate. Gail made sure that her children wouldn't profit by selling the team, and that had a lot to do with avoiding taxes.

I don't believe the multiple owners won't profit from continued ownership. That makes no sense and doesn't serve her purpose of keeping the team in Utah.


THE BIGGEST AND MOST SIGNIFICANT DETAIL, is that her children CANNOT profit from selling the team.
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****
 
Cappy_Smurf said:
Nope. Hayward's salary toward's the cap is 16 million, ONLY if he opts-in(not likely)

If he opts out(likely), his cap hold is about 24 million.
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What is the point of this post that the one I'm linking and others already described?

Darkwing Duck said:
So taking a glance at it, what Colton described seems to be the best bet at this point.

Going into next year if Hayward opts in, it's 82.8 million in salary with about 18 million in cap holds that puts the Jazz right against the cap. If he opts out, it's 66.1 million with 42 million in cap holds, which goes over the cap.

Of course, the Jazz can renounce guys like Mack and Withey and still sign them under the MLE, but won't be able to do that with Hill or Ingles.


EDIT:

Just noticed that 82.8 does NOT include Boris's team option.
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Saint Cy of JFC said:
He has two years left on his contract man...

Carroll can still guard and shoot. He has been bad offensively partially because Toronto has a terrible system

Carroll would be a good player to have against the Warriors. Big body you can put on Klay, KD, or Dray. He can can play the 3 and 4.


And the key here is the Jazz would get the 23rd pick in a loaded draft, positioning themselves even better to trade up or make another deal. The deal isnt for Carroll, it's just getting value out of Favors expiring contract. Being able to potentially revive Carroll because he has proven success w/ Snyder and ball movement systems is a potential plus.
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No thanks
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
So you want to lose Favors for nothing like we did sap and Al?

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I prefer favors to carroll.
Favors is still under contract. There is no rule saying we have to lose him.

We wanted to lose sap and big al in order to play favors and kanter more and to tank.
I don't think this team is in tank mode (just my opinion) and Lyles doesn't seem to be pushing for favors minutes.
Different scenarios imo.
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fishonjazz said:
I prefer favors to carroll.
Favors is still under contract. There is no rule saying we have to lose him.

We wanted to lose sap and big al in order to play favors and kanter more and to tank.
I don't think this team is in tank mode (just my opinion) and Lyles doesn't seem to be pushing for favors minutes.
Different scenarios imo.
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Favors isn't going to re-sign to be Rudy's backup man. I guarantee he gets traded.

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Saint Cy of JFC said:
Favors isn't going to re-sign to be Rudy's backup man. I guarantee he gets traded.

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I disagree with your assumption and think he could still play power forward (favors recently mentioned again that he is going to work on his 3 point shot this offseason btw).

I'm sure carroll and his 15 million per would look great sitting on the bench behind hayward, ingles, hood, and jj and fighting for scraps with burks and exum.
 
fishonjazz said:
I disagree with your assumption and think he could still play power forward (favors recently mentioned again that he is going to work on his 3 point shot this offseason btw).

I'm sure carroll and his 15 million per would look great sitting on the bench behind hayward, ingles, hood, and jj and fighting for scraps with burks and exum.
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Yeah, but in the scenario Favors proves healthy enough to play PF and play it well enough to start, we can't afford him next year. The Jazz have to start maneuvering their pieces around Gobert/Hayward to set-up long-term success at a price that isnt going to make them a huge repeat LT offender. I think it's pretty clear paying Favors isnt in the long-term plans

I see 0 scenarios where Favors and his agent decide to stay in Utah.

Carroll doesnt have to get a ton of minutes. Favors only averaged 24 mpg this year. It's easy to workout the minutes in the 3/4 rotation.

SG: Hood (28)/ Ingles (20)
SF: Hayward (35)/ Carroll (8)/Ingles(5)
PF: Johnson (24)/Lyles(12)/Carroll(12)

Johnson is an old man, he isnt going to be playing a ton of minutes next year. And of course the Jazz arent even guaranteed to be able to retain Ingles.

Hood is injury prone, so minutes will open up. We need more defensive versatility at the 3 position. Carroll can still play D (his advanced defensive numbers still point to him being a positive on that end) and shoot and I nearly guarantee he would be better in Utah's motion system than the Raptors ISO ball system.

And again, you are doing it to get the 23rd pick. Then you have 3 first round picks. That's more assets to trade up in the draft or get an impact player in a trade.
 
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I'm sure when Gordon considers his choices of where he can compete, the Jazz trading Favors for Demarre would be a fantastic omen.
 
infection said:
I'm sure when Gordon considers his choices of where he can compete, the Jazz trading Favors for Demarre would be a fantastic omen.
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Is Hayward somehow in love with the production Favors provided this past year? We all love the games he had in place of Gobert against the Clippers, but that's the thing, they were in place of our best player, not with. The Jazz competing and winning relies on Gobert being healthy, so under the Jazz best case scenario for competing, Favors doesnt have that much importance (at least not enough to commit to long-term the money and role he will want). Getting this deal for Favors would be a miracle (this also pretty much relies on Toronto sticking with their core of Lowry/DeRozan so they have to seek cap relief).

If we are re-signing Hayward, he will be more worried about our long-term plan than short-term 1 year of Favors. Getting the 23rd pick and a serviceable wing player who can guard the other team's best player would be incredible. And again, I dont think the Jazz do this move to get the 23rd pick, it would be a move that preceded another move. The Jazz would have 23rd, 24th, and 30th pick. Another trade would happen.
 
Sorry man, I don't want carroll.
Ingles is better, cheaper, younger
Hayward is hayward
Hood is cheaper and younger with more upside and probably already better.
JJ is better and cheaper
Exum is cheaper, much younger, with much more upside
Burks is younger and cheaper (I haven't given up on him yet)
Even if you take burks out (since I know everyone has written him off, with good reason), there are still 5 guys that I want to see on the court, at the wing position, than carroll. (Plus I would rather see Favors on the court)

As for favors salary if he plays well at PF next season..... sounds like a good problem to have. Cross that bridge when we get to it.

Sorry dude, you would have a better chance of talking me into favors for 23 pick by itself. (Though I wouldn't do that either)

Btw if the Raptors would do the trade proposed then they must really think carroll sucks. They take on a guy in the last year of his deal, coming off the worst season of his career, who still isn't healthy AND they throw in a pick just to get rid of carroll.
 
fishonjazz said:
Sorry man, I don't want carroll.
Ingles is better, cheaper, younger
Hayward is hayward
Hood is cheaper and younger with more upside and probably already better.
JJ is better and cheaper
Exum is cheaper, much younger, with much more upside
Burks is younger and cheaper (I haven't given up on him yet)
Even if you take burks out (since I know everyone has written him off, with good reason), there are still 5 guys that I want to see on the court, at the wing position, than carroll. (Plus I would rather see Favors on the court)

As for favors salary if he plays well at PF next season..... sounds like a good problem to have. Cross that bridge when we get to it.

Sorry dude, you would have a better chance of talking me into favors for 23 pick by itself. (Though I wouldn't do that either)

Btw if the Raptors would do the trade proposed then they must really think carroll sucks. They take on a guy in the last year of his deal, coming off the worst season of his career, who still isn't healthy AND they throw in a pick just to get rid of carroll.
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Joe Johnson is not a wing anymore man. When was the last time the Jazz played him at the 3? Use your brain dude.

Carroll is also a 3 who can play 4. I outlined a simple minutes chart that I think gets each player as many minutes as their play and play style deserve. I'm sorry I didnt include the glass man Alec Burks in there because I've tried to do that the last two years and it never works out.

The Raptors would do it because they have to pay Lowry 35,000,000 dollars next year man. It's simply cap relief for the Raptors.

You also keep ignoring the crux of the deal is the 23rd pick, not getting Demarre Carroll. You are glossing over the best asset in the trade on either side and it's comical when you dont include that in your analysis of the trade.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
. Favors only averaged 24 mpg this year.
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Isn't it safe to assume if Favors is healthy he will go back to playing more minutes like the season before? Where the majority of his minutes were at PF and played with Gobert more than any other big.

I am more concerned that Favors isn't going to get right health and athleticism wise than I am he won't be happy with his role or want to much money to keep.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Joe Johnson is not a wing anymore man. When was the last time the Jazz played him at the 3? Use your brain dude.

Carroll is also a 3 who can play 4. I outlined a simple minutes chart that I think gets each player as many minutes as their play and play style deserve. I'm sorry I didnt include the glass man Alec Burks in there because I've tried to do that the last two years and it never works out.

The Raptors would do it because they have to pay Lowry 35,000,000 dollars next year man. It's simply cap relief for the Raptors.
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I'm sorry that I don't like the trade you like bro.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Isn't it safe to assume if Favors is healthy he will go back to playing more minutes like the season before? Where the majority of his minutes were at PF and played with Gobert more than any other big.

I am more concerned that Favors isn't going to get right health and athleticism wise than I am he won't be happy with his role or want to much money to keep.
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My concern is that either scenario lends itself to being impossible to keep Favors. If Favors was some piece I thought made us a surefire contender to beat GSW, then yeah, I wouldn't mind just keeping him for 1 more shot at it then letting him go test UFA. Here is the thing though: We just played the GSW and Gobert/Favors didnt get a single minute together. Favors went from playing 26 mpg in the Clippers series to 10 mpg in the Warriors series. These were blowouts and Quin didnt even want to try it. I just dont think he is in the long-term plans. I know you love Favors, but I'm just reading the tea-leaves.
 
fishonjazz said:
I'm sorry that I don't like the trade you like bro.
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You are completely ignoring the acquiring of the 23rd pick and just focusing on Demarre Carroll like that is the point of the trade, to get Demarre Carroll. That isnt the point of the trade.
 
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