2017-2018 Jazz salaries, cap/LT details

[Ron Mexico]

Favors played it safe and took an extension below the max last time. He did what Hayward didn't do. But even if he were willing to extend at his current deal, it's still likely to prevent us from extending Hood and/or Exum, depending on how far into the tax the Jazz are willing to go.

Fair enough. I guess we see it different. Based on what he said and what happened I felt like he took a discount to secure staying with a team and to avoid worrying about everything, knowing he would get more on the open market.

I also think a healthy Favors is worth keeping losing Hood for. I think it is a worthy risk. But I am also leaning towards the trade Hood camp since he could net us something decent and will cost us a lot to keep anyways.

I also think even if we dont keep him long term past next season it is silly to trade him when his value is lowest. Even if we are a 100% going to trade him it would be smarter to wait until the trade deadline. I think we can get more for him if he is playing even half way decent. Plenty of contenders would love to have a a healthy Favors.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Fair enough. I guess we see it different. Based on what he said and what happened I felt like he took a discount to secure staying with a team and to avoid worrying about everything, knowing he would get more on the open market.

I also think a healthy Favors is worth keeping losing Hood for. I think it is a worthy risk. But I am also leaning towards the trade Hood camp since he could net us something decent and will cost us a lot to keep anyways.

I also think even if we dont keep him long term past next season it is silly to trade him when his value is lowest. Even if we are a 100% going to trade him it would be smarter to wait until the trade deadline. I think we can get more for him if he is playing even half way decent. Plenty of contenders would love to have a a healthy Favors.

It's probably a bit of both. I think Favors legitimately really likes Utah. He seems like a dude who wants to stay with Utah for his entire career, but at the same time I think he wants to be a starter and someone who is going to finish games. If he was 30 it might be different, but I'm guessing he probably still views himself as someone having a lot of potential and more to show than Utah lets him.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I'm not saying he will -- I'm giving you the conditions under which we'd be willing to re-sign him for a significantly larger amount.

But wouldn't it scare you to commit long term to Favors, even if he had a great healthy year? I would still be worried about the issues flaring up again when he isnt as motivated by his contract year.

 

[Ron Mexico]

It's probably a bit of both. I think Favors legitimately really likes Utah. He seems like a dude who wants to stay with Utah for his entire career, but at the same time I think he wants to be a starter and someone who is going to finish games. If he was 30 it might be different, but I'm guessing he probably still views himself as someone having a lot of potential and more to show than Utah lets him.

That is reasonable but I dont share your belief that he will just be Goberts back up if he gets healthy. I think he starts at PF like he did when he was healthy before and Gobert and Favors play together plenty. I also think if he gets back to form and is playing great and helps us win the team can and will make room for him or his trade value will be worth more.

Also if Hill doesnt come back (which is very likely) then we have plenty of room to keep him.

 

[Ron Mexico]

But wouldn't it scare you to commit long term to Favors, even if he had a great healthy year? I would still be worried about the issues flaring up again when he isnt as motivated by his contract year.

This I agree with. But if he comes back and plays the year without injuries I would feel fine about him and assume he corrected whatever his health problems are.

The biggest problem is we have no idea what is going on with his health. His issues could be much worse than the Jazz are telling(seems likely). That would be a reason they did not attempt to extend him. It would also prevent him from being traded since he would not pass medical exams for other teams.

 

[infection]

Tristan Thompson is getting 5 years/ $80M to put up 8pts and 9rebs. If Favors regains 80% of his form and puts up 13/8 with good efficiency, he's going to want a better deal than that, and someone's going to give it to him. It most likely doesn't matter what the Jazz want to re-sign him for. He'll be looking at 4 years/$85M under the new cap. Joaquim Noah got 4 years/$72M last year even though he was in steep decline. Not saying these are good deals, but it shows the market.

Those guys got big deals but the cap jumped 30 million the year they did. Players and agents knew teams had money to spend and as teams got desperate the demand went higher. The same will happen this year (not because they raised it another 9 or so million but because of lingering effects of a now $40 million jump). Usually salaries keep pace with cap inflation as players are staggered in their years of contract expiration. The cap inflation the past two years is unprecedented and it left everyone under contract taking up a significantly less amount of total cap, making it a first-come-first-serve for all the lucky ******** who were free agents this year and last year. As all those guys on relatively underpaid deals become free agents, there won't be enough space to give them an increase proportional to their previous salary:cap ratio under the old cap limit. So the door swung wide open this year and last year but it is going to start swinging back the other way and it will over-correct where later crops of free agents will then become underpaid relative to the new cap because of all the other bloated guys eating up cap space, then it will finally start to stabilize and salaries will go back up a bit (all relative to cap space -- I'm certainly not saying salaries will drop back to ~$60 million cap level).

I believe next year will start some of the swinging back as between two off-season most teams will have locked up a good portion of cap that's out of proportion to the talent level occupying that cap. There will probably still be a couple straggler teams but there will also be a lot more mid-level guys available than there are teams willing to pop out $15-25 million for mediocre to moderate level talent.

 

[fishonjazz]

Favors played it safe and took an extension below the max last time. He did what Hayward didn't do. But even if he were willing to extend at his current deal, it's still likely to prevent us from extending Hood and/or Exum, depending on how far into the tax the Jazz are willing to go.

I'm ok with extending favors and losing hood and exum if favors is healthy and playing well.

I favors is more valuable and better than those two when he is at his best and he is more rare due to his size imo.

 

[silesian]

Why not favors returns to form and you keep him?

We are thin at bigs right now.

Are we title contenders with 75 million tied up with favors/ Hayward/ gobert?

 

[silesian]

Why wouldn't he be on the team long term.
Let's say next year he is healthy, plays phenomenal defense next to rudy to the point that the jazz defense is historically good and averages between 15 and 20 points per game.

Why wouldn't we keep him?
Money? So you let hood and exum go and find a way to keep him. Plus he likes it here and has a history of taking a discount.
Guys of favors physical and athletic nature are way harder to come by than that of a guy like hood or exum. Plus favors plays a position (2 positions actually) of need that we are thin at.

I absolutely think he stays here long term if he gets and stays healthy and plays well.

Money. They need to use cap space for backcourt.

 

[silesian]

Tristan Thompson is getting 5 years/ $80M to put up 8pts and 9rebs. If Favors regains 80% of his form and puts up 13/8 with good efficiency, he's going to want a better deal than that, and someone's going to give it to him. It most likely doesn't matter what the Jazz want to re-sign him for. He'll be looking at 4 years/$85M under the new cap. Joaquim Noah got 4 years/$72M last year even though he was in steep decline. Not saying these are good deals, but it shows the market.

Now that max is not increasing by large numbers each year, contracts will shrink. A lot of bad deals the last 2 years because gms were undisciplined with shot term cash. Lakers, blazers gonna pay the price, for example

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Those guys got big deals but the cap jumped 30 million the year they did. Players and agents knew teams had money to spend and as teams got desperate the demand went higher. The same will happen this year (not because they raised it another 9 or so million but because of lingering effects of a now $40 million jump). Usually salaries keep pace with cap inflation as players are staggered in their years of contract expiration. The cap inflation the past two years is unprecedented and it left everyone under contract taking up a significantly less amount of total cap, making it a first-come-first-serve for all the lucky ******** who were free agents this year and last year. As all those guys on relatively underpaid deals become free agents, there won't be enough space to give them an increase proportional to their previous salary:cap ratio under the old cap limit. So the door swung wide open this year and last year but it is going to start swinging back the other way and it will over-correct where later crops of free agents will then become underpaid relative to the new cap because of all the other bloated guys eating up cap space, then it will finally start to stabilize and salaries will go back up a bit (all relative to cap space -- I'm certainly not saying salaries will drop back to ~$60 million cap level).

I believe next year will start some of the swinging back as between two off-season most teams will have locked up a good portion of cap that's out of proportion to the talent level occupying that cap. There will probably still be a couple straggler teams but there will also be a lot more mid-level guys available than there are teams willing to pop out $15-25 million for mediocre to moderate level talent.

It's hard to believe if Favors showed he was healthy and capable of starting at PF for a 60 win team that he would get less than 18 million per year, probably more.

 

[fishonjazz]

Money. They need to use cap space for backcourt.

What backcourt?

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I'm in the camp that doesn't want to pay Hill $20M/year. I think that would be a mistake. Apparently, that's what the Jazz offered him a few months ago, and he turned it down. I think that's a blessing. He's not a $20M player.

His defense is so-so, and he can't get to the rim.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

It's hard to believe if Favors showed he was healthy and capable of starting at PF for a 60 win team that he would get less than 18 million per year, probably more.

Depends on his individual performance, but in that instance he'd be looking for something close to his max. He was widely expected to warrant a max contract on his next deal a year ago. He's just had a really ****ty season since then.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Now that max is not increasing by large numbers each year, contracts will shrink. A lot of bad deals the last 2 years because gms were undisciplined with shot term cash. Lakers, blazers gonna pay the price, for example

True, but that's how teams steal players from other teams. They pay them more than the incumbent team wants to pay. A team can afford to overpay one or possibly two players without screwing themselves over too much...depending on how much of an overpay it ends up being.

Lets say a team like Orlando thinks Favors could be their starting center. They've got a ton of cap space. They offer him a max deal or near max deal. The Jazz don't want to counter-offer the same. Or even if the Jazz do counter-offer, Favors decides to leave. Done deal, Favors is gone. It's no different than when Millsap turned down the Jazz's qualifying offer and left to Atlanta.

 

[silesian]

True, but that's how teams steal players from other teams. They pay them more than the incumbent team wants to pay. A team can afford to overpay one or possibly two players without screwing themselves over too much...depending on how much of an overpay it ends up being.

Lets say a team like Orlando thinks Favors could be their starting center. They've got a ton of cap space. They offer him a max deal or near max deal. The Jazz don't want to counter-offer the same. Or even if the Jazz do counter-offer, Favors decides to leave. Done deal, Favors is gone. It's no different than when Millsap turned down the Jazz's qualifying offer and left to Atlanta.

Nope. Milsap was an UFA. Completely different situation. Jazz were tanking and accumulating assets so they let milsap walk. It allowed them to get 2 1rsts, 2 2nds and cash. Now they are in win mode.

Teams that overpay almost always have regrets

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

The Jazz offered Millsap a qualifying offer. Millsap rejected it and became an UFA. That's what's about to happen with Favors.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm in the camp that doesn't want to pay Hill $20M/year. I think that would be a mistake. Apparently, that's what the Jazz offered him a few months ago, and he turned it down. I think that's a blessing. He's not a $20M player.

His defense is so-so, and he can't get to the rim.

U got a source on the offer... I was under the impression we went 3/88 (13 of that coming from our cap space this year) If we offered 3/60 and he turned it down then I'd understand his line of thinking more.

 

[fishonjazz]

U got a source on the offer... I was under the impression we went 3/88 (13 of that coming from our cap space this year) If we offered 3/60 and he turned it down then I'd understand his line of thinking more.

3/88 is what I remember hearing too. (Which was the max we could offer iirc)

 

[Elizah Huge]

3/88 is what I remember hearing too. (Which was the max we could offer iirc)

Well, wasn't it more like 13 mil this year as an incentive and 3/75 for the future? Even then Hill is basically saying he's worth more than 25 mil per year. What is he expecting? 4/100 is probably the max I would go and even then that's a lot. Gobert signed for 4/102 no reason to sign Hill for more than that.


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