If Hayward Leaves?

[green]

The Jazz feel pretty good about retaining him based on letting him get to become UFA.

Not true. Jazz had zero say in Hayward's Free Agency. Had they been smart, they would have locked him up with a longer deal, but they tried to outsmart every one and got burned (see a pattern here?).

 

[Ron Mexico]

Not true. Jazz had zero say in Hayward's Free Agency. Had they been smart, they would have locked him up with a longer deal, but they tried to outsmart every one and got burned (see a pattern here?).

The ability to do that was a long time ago. If this past season they thought he was leaving they would have traded him just like Dwill.

I am seeing a pattern with the Jazz and it's pretty good.

If hayward re-signs and Jazz do great next season like this year will you stick around?

 

[green]

After reading this, I don't see any reason why Hayward would choose Utah over Boston:

The news is a major blow to Utah’s hopes of re-signing Hayward. The $207 million godfather offer is off the table. The Jazz can still woo Hayward with more money and more years (around $177 million over five years) than anyone else (about $131 million over four years), but the difference isn’t nearly as significant as it could’ve been had he been eligible for the supermax — $30 million over the first four years of the contract, and $77 million total.
Now, with that All-NBA bonus null and void, the first two columns of the chart above are all that’s relevant. There’s only a $5.4 million difference between what Utah and another team can offer over the first four years of the contract. The fifth year of extra security that’s available if he re-signs in Utah is nice, but the salary cap figure could ascend to about $120 million in 2020; Hayward would be eligible to sign the supermax as early as 2020 if he signs a contract with the option to opt out that year (since it’d be his 10th season).
If Hayward is still a max-contract-caliber player by that point, he’d be set to earn more by re-upping his contract earlier rather than later. The fourth and fifth years of his five-year max with Utah this summer would be rendered meaningless.
Here’s how Hayward’s contract could look over the next eight years by re-signing in Utah this summer and then signing a five-year max in 2020, versus signing elsewhere and then signing a five-year max in 2020.

*They show a graphic which shows Hayward signing a three year deal then a five year max deal with Utah and with someone else. The totals are: Utah, at the end of 8 years: $341,772,000. Somewhere else at the end of 8 years: $339,045,000. A difference of only $2,727,000

Gulp. These numbers should terrify Utah. There is no measurable advantage to the five-year deal it can offer this summer. The Jazz’s best hope is that Hayward opts in using his player option for 2017–18 and makes another run at All-NBA next season. But he finished eighth in voting among forwards this year. As talented as Hayward is, and as steadily he’s improved every year as a pro, making an All-NBA team with the wealth of forwards the league currently has might be a pipe dream for the 27-year-old.
The Celtics will come charging for Hayward. Other teams might join the party too. Utah will need to hope its team, its history with the star, and the city is enough. Otherwise Hayward could be walking out the door.

Then, when you add in Utah's tax rates (not high, not low, no advantages to living here) and his possible endorsement deals in a city like Boston (I'd bet he could get tens of millions a year from Nike alone)....Boston's #1 seed in the East, their #1 pick, their future picks....

Give me one good reason why Hayward would stay?

https://theringer.com/2017-all-nba-team-gordon-hayward-paul-george-lebron-james-harden-5879bd6f7445

 

[Ron Mexico]

After reading this, I don't see any reason why Hayward would choose Utah over Boston:



Then, when you add in Utah's tax rates (not high, not low, no advantages to living here) and his possible endorsement deals in a city like Boston (I'd bet he could get tens of millions a year from Nike alone)....Boston's #1 seed in the East, their #1 pick, their future picks....

Give me one good reason why Hayward would stay?

https://theringer.com/2017-all-nba-team-gordon-hayward-paul-george-lebron-james-harden-5879bd6f7445

Because the Jazz are a better team than Boston.
Because he likes it here.
Because his longest coaching relationship is with Snyder and he likes him.
Because he likes his teammates.
Because his wife wants to stay here.
Because he likes raising a family in Utah. Because he has close friends here.
Because the money is more.
Because he can get more years here.
Because his legacy can be greater by sticking with one team.
Because winning in Utah is more appreciated.
Because winning a championship in Utah is a bigger deal.
Because he is the star and leader in the Jazz like he wanted.
Because the Jazz have a great plan going forward.
Because Jazz have an elite defense and a good offense that can be elite.
Because he has great role models and veterans he looks up to here.
Because he knows what he has here and that he likes it. Other teams are unknown.
Because fans appreciate him here.
Because criticism is much less here than other places.
Because he made it to the all Star team here.
Because it's the better choice.
That's just a quick few off the top of my head.

 

[green]

Ummmm. Utah is not a better team than Boston.
I hope he likes Utah a lot. I mean a lot. To take less money and less wins to stay? He must LOVE Utah.
I get that he likes Snyder. Boston has more money and more wins. Oh, and a coach he likes. In fact, a coach that he competed for championships with (which he hasn't done with Snyder).
Teammates? Sure. I hope so.
What would tell you that his wife wants to live here? Her San Diego home that she lives in? (Mormons are so weird about this. Utah kind of sucks as far as living goes.)
Raising a family in Utah? You must not be a one percenter. It's the same everywhere. Gated communities, private schools, etc. Again, weird mormon belief about Utah from person who has most likely never been anywhere else nice.
The money is not more.
Why would you want more years? This article shows where less years is a lot more money in the long run.
Legacy from one team? Uhhh...no one cares except for small market fan. Hayward's legacy will be much greater winning a title in Boston than battling for four place in the West.
Winning in Utah is more appreciated? What, by less fans? lol. ok.
He ain't winning a title in Utah without a third star. Sorry. If John and Karl couldn't do it, I don't see how Hayward and Gobert will in a NBA where stars congregate.
He will be a star and leader in Boston. And with Boston taking Fultz, Isaiah Thomas won't be as vital to Boston's success.
Jazz have a great plan? Hoping Exum pans out? Boston has a plan. Utah has a prayer.
There is nothing that says Snyder's offense can be elite.
Role Models? They can join him in Boston as he competes for titles.
Unknown? That usually hurts the home team and doesn't help it. Grass is always greener and so on.
Fans appreciate him? He will get that anywhere.
Less criticism? Sure, but he's not afraid of that.
Sure, he was an All Star here. He would have been one in 2016 in Boston with their media advantage. He will be one in Boston a year longer than in Utah as well.
Better choice? Utah has less wins, less ability to get better, and equal money and a GM that isn't as good as Ainge. It isn't better here.

Try harder.

 

[RJF]

Ummmm. Utah is not a better team than Boston.
I hope he likes Utah a lot. I mean a lot. To take less money and less wins to stay? He must LOVE Utah.
I get that he likes Snyder. Boston has more money and more wins. Oh, and a coach he likes. In fact, a coach that he competed for championships with (which he hasn't done with Snyder).
Teammates? Sure. I hope so.
What would tell you that his wife wants to live here? Her San Diego home that she lives in? (Mormons are so weird about this. Utah kind of sucks as far as living goes.)
Raising a family in Utah? You must not be a one percenter. It's the same everywhere. Gated communities, private schools, etc. Again, weird mormon belief about Utah from person who has most likely never been anywhere else nice.
The money is not more.
Why would you want more years? This article shows where less years is a lot more money in the long run.
Legacy from one team? Uhhh...no one cares except for small market fan. Hayward's legacy will be much greater winning a title in Boston than battling for four place in the West.
Winning in Utah is more appreciated? What, by less fans? lol. ok.
He ain't winning a title in Utah without a third star. Sorry. If John and Karl couldn't do it, I don't see how Hayward and Gobert will in a NBA where stars congregate.
He will be a star and leader in Boston. And with Boston taking Fultz, Isaiah Thomas won't be as vital to Boston's success.
Jazz have a great plan? Hoping Exum pans out? Boston has a plan. Utah has a prayer.
There is nothing that says Snyder's offense can be elite.
Role Models? They can join him in Boston as he competes for titles.
Unknown? That usually hurts the home team and doesn't help it. Grass is always greener and so on.
Fans appreciate him? He will get that anywhere.
Less criticism? Sure, but he's not afraid of that.
Sure, he was an All Star here. He would have been one in 2016 in Boston with their media advantage. He will be one in Boston a year longer than in Utah as well.
Better choice? Utah has less wins, less ability to get better, and equal money and a GM that isn't as good as Ainge. It isn't better here.

Try harder.

Maybe you should join a celtics board instead of posting here. Judas!

 

[green]

Maybe you should join a celtics board instead of posting here. Judas!

Weak ***.

Here is the final nail in the coffin:

IF you are Hayward's agent, what city gives Hayward the best shot at making an All NBA team?

If Utah is third in the West next year with Hayward and Boston is #2 in the East with Hayward, Hayward is a for sure Al NBA guy on Boston. On Utah? Probably doesn't make it.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

You trade players for picks and leverage these trades and cap space to start the rebuild process. It will take another 4 - 5 years probably.

 

[green]

Also, my hope is what it has always been: Force Hayward to sign. Don't be Utah Jazz and do nothing so you can maximize profits. Take a risk. Like I said earlier in the thread, like I've been saying all spring long, make the team better than Boston. Go and get another star before FA so that Hayward can see that Utah is better than Boston and Hayward would take less money and less prestige to stay.

We are fighting an uphill battle. I want to see the Jazz go out and fight and not sit back and do nothing and watch him walk away.

 

[green]

You trade players for picks and leverage these trades and cap space to start the rebuild process. It will take another 4 - 5 years probably.

I agree. If Hayward leaves, I want Utah to start over. Ship out Gobert, Favors, and everyone else and pray for lottery luck.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Hayward's best move financially is to sign a 1x1 max deal with Utah and give himself another year or two to make All NBA, something he's very capable of doing. If he doesn't make it, no harm no foul, he stays maxed and keeps his options open.

 

[green]

Hayward's best move financially is to sign a 1x1 max deal with Utah and give himself another year or two to make All NBA, something he's very capable of doing. If he doesn't make it, no harm no foul, he stays maxed and keeps his options open.

His best option is to be eligible for the super max in the 2020 season. That has a good chance to be the highest salary cap ever, and then to see it drop down after that. His contracts work out perfect for that. Three year deal, with two player option years after that.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Weak ***.

Here is the final nail in the coffin:

IF you are Hayward's agent, what city gives Hayward the best shot at making an All NBA team?

If Utah is third in the West next year with Hayward and Boston is #2 in the East with Hayward, Hayward is a for sure Al NBA guy on Boston. On Utah? Probably doesn't make it.

He is more likely to make all NBA team with Jazz. He is #1 option here. With Boston he is #2 or lower.

 

[green]

According to that article, his super contract would be the same, regardless of what team he plays for, as long as he re-ups.

Is that because his first deal (the one he signs this summer) would be a non-max deal?

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I'm of the opinion that IT + Hayward + Horford is not better than Hill + Hayward + Gobert, especially if Favors is healthier. IT is a terrible defensive liability and mostly an iso-scorer. Boston as a whole has no interior defense or rebounding.

The rationale for going to Boston is really to get to an easier conference.

Now if Boston flips their 2018 Bk pick and a player to bring in another compelling player, that would tip the scale. However, IT, Horford and a bunch of average guards/wings isn't going to win even with Hayward.

 

[green]

He is more likely to make all NBA team with Jazz. He is #1 option here. With Boston he is #2 or lower.

Not with the media voting. Robert didn't even make every media member's ballot if I understand this correctly. If Gobert was in Boston, he'd be unanimous first teamer.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

According to that article, his super contract would be the same, regardless of what team he plays for, as long as he re-ups.

Is that because his first deal (the one he signs this summer) would be a non-max deal?

The designated player extension only applies to the team that drafts him or holds his bird rights. If he goes to Boston, he loses that opportunity.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Not with the media voting. Robert didn't even make every media member's ballot if I understand this correctly. If Gobert was in Boston, he'd be unanimous first teamer.

iffy logic. Hayward's best path is to continue his personal development with a team built around him. He took a big step forward in the playoffs this year, after the regular season and this round of voting. Playing off of IT as a less featured player isn't going to help him make All NBA. Ask Klay Thompson.

 

[green]

I'm of the opinion that IT + Hayward + Horford is not better than Hill + Hayward + Gobert, especially if Favors is healthier. IT is a terrible defensive liability and mostly an iso-scorer. Boston as a whole has no interior defense or rebounding.

The rationale for going to Boston is really to get to an easier conference.

Now if Boston flips their 2018 Bk pick and a player to bring in another compelling player, that would tip the scale. However, IT, Horford and a bunch of average guards/wings isn't going to win even with Hayward.

I don't disagree.

To make Boston better, they need Hayward and someone else (George/Butler/etc).

BUT, IF Utah were to go get a George, then suddenly the scales flip back to Utah. Hayward, George, Gobert...I think those three could compete with anyone.

Just how GS has some luck with Leonard getting hurt, if those three faced GS and Durant or Curry missed a game or two? Utah wins.

Go out and get a third person Utah. Don't blow this.

 

[green]

iffy logic. Hayward's best path is to continue his personal development with a team built around him. He took a big step forward in the playoffs this year, after the regular season and this round of voting. Playing off of IT as a less featured player isn't going to help him make All NBA. Ask Klay Thompson.

True, but Klay isn't the second best player on GS. He is third? Fourth? AND, three Warriors made the team. IT and Hayward would make the team together if they won 60+ games.