Kyoto
Well-Known Member
I like that in the clip Haywood wasn't even looking to try to get open for a shot. Hiding again during clutch time.
Is Joe Johnson off the Jazz Tradable Assets List?
- Thread starter mdalby
- Start date
I like that in the clip Haywood wasn't even looking to try to get open for a shot. Hiding again during clutch time.
He isnt Joe Ingles. He isnt that important to RELATIONSHIPS.
Every comment about JJ in the locker-room is that he barely talks to anyone. His contribution has been through the players seeing his work ethic and professionalism. They aren't going to miss his presence in the locker-room.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
This post perfectly demonstrates that you don't get it.
Joe Johnson did more than enough on the court last season to deserve another full season with the Jazz.
Ingles might be a funny personality and a decent player but let's not overvalue him.
By the way Ingles friendship with Hayward yielded him a lot of money. I'm not sure he is really worth the new contract he got from the Jazz. He has to prove it next season.
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Joe Johnson isnt on the team past this year.... If you can get value for him, you do it.
And Ingles has enormous value. He is the valuable locker-room presence, much more so than Johnson. He also does a lot of stuff on the court. He is a connector on the court and in the locker-room. He seems to be everyone's best friend and he makes the right play on the court while playing high IQ defense and knocking down a high % of 3pt attempts.
Please share with me your insight to the Jazz's locker-room. You seem to know the players so well.
He didn't say anything about talking in the locker room. There is more to building bridges than the amount of talk in the locker room.
So we really think Joe Johnson is some kind of super locker-room force that means he shouldn't be traded? C'mon.
No, but he might have value for the team, and the fans, that goes beyond his personal stat contributions and the marginal asset his shedding would recover. That's all.
Bro it was better to trade Hayward before the deadline last season.
I agree Ingles brings intangibles to the table but if he stops to hit 3s consistently next season, his contract does not look good.
I also hope the Snyder slow-paced offense wasn't drawn for Ingles!
Yeah, I get that. I'm not denying his value or importance at all (I just dont think the locker-room is going to implode if he is gone). His value is what makes him a tradeable player.
I also think there is value in putting the pressure in the hands of the young players to win games in the 4th quarter and not have them rely on JJ.
I really want to make the playoffs next year, but I'd rather make it on the strength of the core duo while developing Exum/Mitchell/Hood. I also don't think missing the playoffs would be the worst outcome in the world.
I think Cy is viewing this very concretely -- believing that JJ is under contract for one more year and then he doesn't have any more value to us because he likely won't be here past next season. Many recognize JJ's value to the franchise beyond next season even if he is not on the roster. There are many different ways to appraise value. In this situation, Cy seems to think value is a state of being independent of the psychology of the game and can be represented better on paper, through statistics, or measured in assets. It's the man passing along his old beat up '99 Corolla to a struggling single mom while his friend is chiding him in bewilderment about how he just gave it away when he could have gotten at least $500 for it on Craigslist, completely failing to recognize the existence of an intangible value of his gift worth more to him than the tangible asset.
I'm not denying the value of JJ's professionalism and work ethic having an osmosis affect on Jazz players. I just think those lessons have been learned and passed on and now the Jazz players on the roster can take that and pass it on to future players. Sure, I'm sure the Jazz could benefit from being around JJ more, but I don't think the 3 extra months of veteran tutelage (the time past the deadline, when Im proposing we try to trade him) are more valuable than trying to replenish the Jazz's asset base.
Trading him for a second round pick (which you're alluding to but not outright saying) provides even less value than those "3 months of tuteledge." As a side note, I think there's more to it than just veteran leadership. If we traded him away to a situation that he'd prefer then fine, but cashing things in just for the sake of cashing things in is awfully silly. A second rounder, for hell's sake.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
So the gloriously general and important concept of relationships, in the context of building a competitive basketball program, is, for you, reduced down all the way to "locker room dynamics". Gotcha.
And a 2nd rounder for a team flooded with them, and whose history in the 11 years since Millsap that yielded the following NBA players (if you want to call them that): Kyrylo Fesenko, Jeremy Evans, and Raul Neto.
Knowing DL, it would be some PG that never puts on a uniform. It would also likely be a pick beyond the late-40's.
No, I think he would bring back multiple 2nd round picks and I think 2nd round picks are very valuable.
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I don't know how people dismiss 2nd round picks so easily. I guess Kris Middleton, Malcolm Brogdon, or Draymond Green arent valuable.
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Seriously, what teams would even be able to and also want to trade for Johnson? Most good teams don't have $10 million in dead weight contracts or superfluous 2nds.