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Dante Exum re-signed

Exum had the worst dbpm on the team in the playoffs this year. Not only that, He had an ortg of 91 and a drtg of 112. Those are really bad numbers. I wouldn’t cite his playoff performance as evidence of his “eliteness”.
Where did you get those ortg and drtg from? Basketball reference had him at 110 ortg and 106 drtg. NBA.com, which is the most accurate had him as the best on the Jazz at 109.3 ortg and 4th best host behind Gobert and just ahead of Mitchell 98.9 drtg. That gives him the best net rating on our team this year.

Edit nm you are posting playoff stats. He was 108 and 116 in the playoffs. But that is pretty low minutes to try and draw that many conclusions from offensive and defensive ratings.

He did lock down harden better than anyone has in the NBA for a stretch. Harden tried to challenge him and failed multiple times before calling for picks to help switch him off. Harden preferred Mitchell guarding him and anyone else.
 
Exum had the worst dbpm on the team in the playoffs this year. Not only that, He had an ortg of 91 and a drtg of 112. Those are really bad numbers. I wouldn’t cite his playoff performance as evidence of his “eliteness”.

ah i think you might want to check your stats again dude. According to NBA.com his ORTG was 109.3 and DRTG 98.9 in the regular season and in the playoffs (in a very small sample size 11 mpg) ORTG 107.9 and DRTG 116

stats schmats Anyone with 2 eyes can see what his potential is and the trend of his numbers even with the injuries is very much headed in the right direction (aside from the 3 pt% - that is a little concerning)
 
Where did you get those ortg and drtg from? Basketball reference had him at 110 ortg and 106 drtg. NBA.com, which is the most accurate had him as the best on the Jazz at 109.3 ortg and 4th best host behind Gobert and just ahead of Mitchell 98.9 drtg. That gives him the best net rating on our team this year.

Edit nm you are posting playoff stats. He was 108 and 116 in the playoffs. But that is pretty low minutes to try and draw that many conclusions from offensive and defensive ratings.

He did lock down harden better than anyone has in the NBA for a stretch. Harden tried to challenge him and failed multiple times before calling for picks to help switch him off. Harden preferred Mitchell guarding him and anyone else.

Basketball reference... and no he wasn’t. He was exactly what I said he was. Screenshot attached.

33DFF997-B459-4B02-8967-31220550BFC8.png
 
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ah i think you might want to check your stats again dude. According to NBA.com his ORTG was 109.3 and DRTG 98.9 in the regular season and in the playoffs (in a very small sample size 11 mpg) ORTG 107.9 and DRTG 116

stats schmats Anyone with 2 eyes can see what his potential is and the trend of his numbers even with the injuries is very much headed in the right direction (aside from the 3 pt% - that is a little concerning)

I attached my screenshot. You attach yours lol.

Lots of guys have potential. Lots of guys never reach it either because they can’t put it together. We outbid ourselves to get this guy for more than we had to. Hope it works out but I have my doubts.
 
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Exum had the worst dbpm on the team in the playoffs this year. Not only that, He had an ortg of 91 and a drtg of 112. Those are really bad numbers. I wouldn’t cite his playoff performance as evidence of his “eliteness”.

This is so adorable! Raise your hands class if you think this might have something to do with 2nd unit PLAYOFF rotations? Who can tell me how efficient a lineup of Favors-Jerebko-Crowder-O"Neale-Exum is going to be?
 
I attached my screenshot. You attach yours lol.
How about this one, that shows everyone except Jae suddenly became a worse defender during the playoffs. Even Rudy. Can you explain that? Can you explain why Ingles is lauded for his defence, but his stats are effectively the same as Exum's, who you say isn't a good defender?
DefRating.PNG
 
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At the end of the day all our arguments does not matter. Jazz FO made the decision and we will have 3 more years to see if Exum will be something more than just a backup defensive PG. Some of us think he may be something more, some not. It does not matter really, Jazz success next year does not depend on how well Exum will play IMHO. If he plays better, fantastic, if not, not a big deal, we have real stars to carry the team anyway.
 
How about this one, that shows everyone except Jae suddenly became a worse defender during the playoffs. Even Rudy. Can you explain that? Can you explain why Ingles is lauded for his defence, but his stats are effectively the same as Exum's, who you say isn't a good defender?
View attachment 6129
Because you only play playoff teams in the playoffs.
 
Harden's stats when guarded by Exum in the playoffs:

- 53 possessions.
- 12 points
- 3-14 shooting
- 8 assists
- 4 turnovers
- 1.03 points per possession

One stat that really pops out is the PPP (points per possession). The Rockets are regularly at 1.14 PPP (best in the league) but when Exum guarded Harden they were at 1.03. That’s equivalent to the Suns, Kings and Bulls PPP this season (all three tied for lowest PPP in the league).

If you watched the games too there were some ******** fouls called on Exum too a couple of times.
 
How about this one, that shows everyone except Jae suddenly became a worse defender during the playoffs. Even Rudy. Can you explain that? Can you explain why Ingles is lauded for his defence, but his stats are effectively the same as Exum's, who you say isn't a good defender?
View attachment 6129

The big factor is that his oRtg in the playoffs was miserably low with a high dRtg. Yes, everyone's dRtg went up, defending against great offenses. But his oRtg was 21 (!!!) points separated from his dRtg. Ingles, by the same regard, was only one point (110 oRtg, 111 dRtg), and was regarded as playing poorly for chunks of these playoffs. Exum was metrically horrible offensively and defensively, and it isn't an oddity that he was a net negative out there (By a lot BTW, he was a -5.8 BPM --> really really bad). Exum was team worst in oRtg AND dRtg in the playoffs. He was the only regular minute-getter on the team that had a negative win-share rate in the playoffs (Udoh and Stockton the only others).

People forget that he was turning the ball over at a historic rate in the playoffs for a minute (almost one third of his possessions through one long stretch), and even after somewhat righting the ship in that regard, finished the playoffs with a > 24% Turnover Rate (!!!) to go along with his 0.66 A:TO ratio (again, really bad).


Look, i get it that he could someday become worthy of the $11M contract. Can we stop pretending like he's shown enough to earn it up to this point? Hes a career 20 mins-per-night , 40 games-played, 6p/2r/2a player now making >10% of the salary cap. Jazz are taking a huge leap of faith IMO, especially when it appears they outbid themselves to overpay him. Teams usually pay the RFA contract based on past results mixed with potential. This contract is still 99% potential.
 
The big factor is that his oRtg in the playoffs was miserably low with a high dRtg. Yes, everyone's dRtg went up, defending against great offenses. But his oRtg was 21 (!!!) points separated from his dRtg. Ingles, by the same regard, was only one point (110 oRtg, 111 dRtg), and was regarded as playing poorly for chunks of these playoffs. Exum was metrically horrible offensively and defensively, and it isn't an oddity that he was a net negative out there (By a lot BTW, he was a -5.8 BPM --> really really bad). Exum was team worst in oRtg AND dRtg in the playoffs. He was the only regular minute-getter on the team that had a negative win-share rate in the playoffs (Udoh and Stockton the only others).

People forget that he was turning the ball over at a historic rate in the playoffs for a minute (almost one third of his possessions through one long stretch), and even after somewhat righting the ship in that regard, finished the playoffs with a > 24% Turnover Rate (!!!) to go along with his 0.66 A:TO ratio (again, really bad).


Look, i get it that he could someday become worthy of the $11M contract. Can we stop pretending like he's shown enough to earn it up to this point? Hes a career 20 mins-per-night , 40 games-played, 6p/2r/2a player now making >10% of the salary cap. Jazz are taking a huge leap of faith IMO, especially when it appears they outbid themselves to overpay him. Teams usually pay the RFA contract based on past results mixed with potential. This contract is still 99% potential.
Are you also ignoring that he had our best offensive and net rating in the regular season this year?

http://stats.nba.com/players/advanc...8&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612762

http://stats.nba.com/players/advanc...8&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612762

Are you ignoring that he had our 5th best offensive rating in the playoffs? Just ahead of Ingles and just behind Burks.

http://stats.nba.com/players/advanc...8&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612762
 


One of our stat-sources are wrong. BB-REF has been pretty reliable through the years.
(Playoffs)
upload_2018-7-6_12-4-32.png

upload_2018-7-6_12-4-47.png


(Regular Season)
upload_2018-7-6_12-9-14.png



https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/exumda01.html

Your stat source has Rudy Gobert as a net negative (-2.1) while bb-ref has him as a major positive (+5.1). Dunno what else to say on that matter.
 
NBA.com are the actual numbers and accurately calculated. Bbref are an estimate.

So now you're trying to tell me Basketball reference doesn't use actual game data numbers? lol


Its a difference in the way they are running formulas on those numbers. I trust the formulas that say Gobert is a positive factor (bbref) over a negative one (nba.com).
 
So now you're trying to tell me Basketball reference doesn't use actual game data numbers? lol
They use estimates based on NBAs numbers.

I'll trust the source for the data. I'm not sure why you wouldn't believe their numbers, but that's fine if you want to ignore it.

They are also calculated different.
 
They use estimates based on NBAs numbers.

I'll trust the source for the data. I'm not sure why you wouldn't believe their numbers, but that's fine if you want to ignore it.

They are also calculated different. Bball ref is based on per100 possessions.

like i said they are calculating it from the same data...


..... oRtg is always (or should be, who knows what nba.com is doing, they didnt document it) calculated on 100 possessions ........
Offensive Rating = (Points Produced / Individual Possessions) x 100
 
like i said they are calculating it from the same data...


..... oRtg is always (or should be) calculated on 100 possessions ........
Offensive Rating = (Points Produced / Individual Possessions) x 100
So you are saying that that basketball reference that gets their data from the NBA is more accurate than the NBA?
 
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