Alfalfa
Well-Known Member
Hey, I read freakonomics too! It was terrible.
The decline in violent crime is correlated with development and can be seen across centuries (maybe even millenia), with some random fluctuation as you'd expect.
Suspicious packages sent to Obama, Clinton, and CNN Offices
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Hey, I read freakonomics too! It was terrible.
The decline in violent crime is correlated with development and can be seen across centuries (maybe even millenia), with some random fluctuation as you'd expect.
Red
Well-Known Member
I can't take the Saudis word on that. The second link I left would call that claim into question. However, I am absolutely in learning mode where this war is concerned, and I thank you for taking the trouble to post all that information.
What part of "temporary random variation" made you think I assigned any sort of cause to increase? Try again.
I didn't, but I believe you.
Zombie graphs in #67 show significant rises after the 1950s with a 20-year-peak. That's a little too long and sustained for a random fluctuation.
Red
Well-Known Member
Yes, that van was pretty demonstrative as to his political leanings. That said, a nut by any other name is still a nut. I do believe, given the targets, that pointing out the appalling incendiary rhetoric Trump uses in tweets, and even more so, at rallies, (the shouted angry word being more potent then printed word, at least in getting people worked up), was appropriate, and inevitable. I doubt that he will tone that rhetoric down, however. He wants those cheers when he speaks to a live audience, and he wants that anger translated into votes in a couple of weeks.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/cesar-sa...ct-arrested-florida-everything-we-know-so-far
Alfalfa
Well-Known Member
Not if you look at it across centuries. Read up Steven Pinker's work on the topic. He even addresses these lengthier bumps in the rate.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
Reading this guy's Twitter account is a wild ride. Obviously he had more than a few screws loose. He really seemed to have a particular hard on for George Soros.
https://twitter.com/hardrock2016?s=09
His other Twitter account is somehow even worse
https://twitter.com/hardrock2016?s=09
His other Twitter account is somehow even worse
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I'm as unimpressed by Pinker as you are by Freakonomics. It's quite possible for there to be causes for a centuries-long decline and causes for a shorter-term increase operating at the same time.
Only if you decide that actions can have only and exactly one cause. Otherwise, there's plenty of room for hostile rhetoric that approves of violence to serve as encouragement for a person prone to violence, and be a contributing factor to his decision to finally undertake an action.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
There have been those on the right stoking the flames of hatred against people like Soros, and the Clintons long before Trump showed up, so you are right in that sense. I think we should expect our president to be someone who aims to quell those flames however, not further stoke them as he continues to do even today.
Of course the bomber ultimately bears responsibility for his own actions, but it's not a coincidence that Trumps rhetoric targeted the same individuals and organizations as he did.
idestroyedthetoilet
Well-Known Member
Probably your one sentence paragraph structure. My answer is quite possibly. Your history would play into how you are viewed in taking that position.
Red
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure anybody here, or anywhere for that matter(as in the media) has drawn a direct link. I could be wrong, I may have missed a comment here, or a talking head or print journalist somewhere, but I think the point has been this: the president can do a better job, with his rhetoric, if he simply tries. After all, all the targets are people, or in the case of CNN, a news organization, who have been the target of highly incendiary comments by Trump. That cannot be ignored. Just because the guy made threats before Trump became president, does not mean he has not listened to Trump at all. There are photos of Trump plastered all over his van. There's a good chance he does in fact listen to Trump. I have felt, and pointed out, beginning with Trumps encouragement of violence against protesters during the last election, that there are nuts out there, and that's the very reason I was concerned with the tone of his speeches and rallies.
It's simple, and I'm not understanding why Trump supporters cannot understand this fundamental fact: President Trump is not helping. He could do a much better job with his rhetoric and tone if he simply wanted to do so. He is the president. His words matter more then most of us. He is the president. He can do better, and we have every right, as citizens of this country, to expect him to do better then this.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I’m old enough to remember republicans calling this a “false flag.”
LOL
Here’s the thing, yes this man is probably crazy but the Trump vitriol and alt reality created by Fox News and am radio attracts these crazies. You create a narrative that your side is incessantly the victim of the deep state, Jewish billionaires, and liberals built. This is built on lies and paranoia and is peddled to the already vulnerable. To these crazies it’s their medication. When Cesar sent these bombs to his targets, he wasn’t committing a crime so much as redeeming his side, fulfilling his patriotic duty, and fighting for his one and only savior, Donald Trump.
This is exactly how nationalism works. The cult of personality trump has created illicits this type of devotion. The nonstop hate of Fox News generates this type of anger.
This is why things need to change. From the revisionist history of Dinesh DSouza, the cheap attacks of newt, Tucker, Ingram, and Rush, the conspiracies of Hannity and Jones, and the disinformation by the likes of Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk.
Fox News was originally created to offer an alternative to media. It has now become an alternative reality to those who prefer authoritarianism and nationalism over democracy and patriotism.
@Red seeing that van today reminded me of Fromm’s “Escape from Freedom.” That man clearly couldn’t handle the freedom of democracy and instead found himself desiring a violent, heavy handed, and intolerant form of government and society.
LOL
Here’s the thing, yes this man is probably crazy but the Trump vitriol and alt reality created by Fox News and am radio attracts these crazies. You create a narrative that your side is incessantly the victim of the deep state, Jewish billionaires, and liberals built. This is built on lies and paranoia and is peddled to the already vulnerable. To these crazies it’s their medication. When Cesar sent these bombs to his targets, he wasn’t committing a crime so much as redeeming his side, fulfilling his patriotic duty, and fighting for his one and only savior, Donald Trump.
This is exactly how nationalism works. The cult of personality trump has created illicits this type of devotion. The nonstop hate of Fox News generates this type of anger.
This is why things need to change. From the revisionist history of Dinesh DSouza, the cheap attacks of newt, Tucker, Ingram, and Rush, the conspiracies of Hannity and Jones, and the disinformation by the likes of Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk.
Fox News was originally created to offer an alternative to media. It has now become an alternative reality to those who prefer authoritarianism and nationalism over democracy and patriotism.
@Red seeing that van today reminded me of Fromm’s “Escape from Freedom.” That man clearly couldn’t handle the freedom of democracy and instead found himself desiring a violent, heavy handed, and intolerant form of government and society.
I see. I will keep my sentences short for you.
if you feel it was not random variation but a result of policy changes, what were they? Say, something Obama did in 2015 that Trump reversed in 2017 that had this effect. Perhaps something similar. Please be detailed.
All the graphs I have of crime trends over the last century or so contain a lot of noise from year to year.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Is anyone aware of another country where in the course of just a few days, the entire previous administration was targeted for liquidation? I’m not sure if we’re truly appreciating the scope of this attack. If successful, most of the leaders from the previous administration would’ve been killed. Not to mention several prominent senators, a major news outlet, and actor.
Alfalfa
Well-Known Member
Obviously. That's what Pinker argues. However, the trend of continuous decline over at least the past few centuries is undeniable. The 2 decade bump couldn't have been arrested by the factors you mentioned since it wasn't caused by the factors mentioned (abortion was not criminalized during that period for example, it was illegal before the bump).
I don't think idestroyedthetoilet is making a sincere argument about the crime rate. Anyone can cherry pick data at random points in order to prove an argument. That's what he's doing.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
haven't read the thread, are we doing that thing where we don't call this terrorism because the person is white?
Zombie
Well-Known Member
So far the only people I've seen online describe the MAGAbomber as anything other than a terrorist seem convinced he's actually a Democratic operative running a false flag Op. Real galaxy brain stuff.