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Too Many Question Marks

jom2003 said:
Looking at Niang versus Duncan Robinson you can clearly see how a player's physical profile can make all the difference. Two players with similar length and skillset. But Robinson is much more gifted physically with good quickness which allows him to play as a SF or even a SG with size advantage. Whereas Niang will always be at a matchup disadvantage physically because of his tweener body that makes him too slow against most guards and too small against most forwards.
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This is exactly what I've been saying, but some people on here thought it was crazy. There is a reason why high school players become Blue Chippers and get scholarships to the big college basketball schools: they have skills, attributes, athleticism, vision, smarts, whatever that make them more appealing for coaches to coach and mold into players. Because of the one and done system some of these Blue Chip guys leave early based on bad advice or over-confidence and are either drafted lower than they expected or not drafted at all. These are the guys we should be trying to develop, especially if they are only in their early 20's.

Here's a small list to start with for those who always ask for such things:
Trevon Duval, Duke, 22 years old 6'2" point guard
Marques Bolden, Duke, 22 years old, 6'10" center
Moses Brown, UCLA, 20 years old, 7'2", center
Kobi Simmons, Arizona, 23, 6'5" point guard

There are a few others who are young Blue Chip recruits within the last five years or so with the physical profiles who can potentially develop into decent bench/role players. In my opinion, we should only have three projects, at most, on the team at a time though. I like the idea of having solid veterans run the bench unit. This year the Jeff Green, Ed Davis and Mudiay signings weren't the greatest, but Green and Davis were solid and Mudiay is a potential development project who, if well-developed, has the size and physical attributes to be a good bench role player.
 
LoPo said:
Exactly. Cy is a moron. Blaming Don when Conley is the main issue with this team. He is a liability on D and not a fit in offense. Blaming Don of all things? Could Don do better? Of course.

Conley is still the issue. He's why we don't have depth, we lose more with him than without, etc.





Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
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You were born and the doctor dropped you on your head.
 
jom2003 said:
Looking at Niang versus Duncan Robinson you can clearly see how a player's physical profile can make all the difference. Two players with similar length and skillset. But Robinson is much more gifted physically with good quickness which allows him to play as a SF or even a SG with size advantage. Whereas Niang will always be at a matchup disadvantage physically because of his tweener body that makes him too slow against most guards and too small against most forwards.
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Woah bro, are you telling me your physical body matters in sports?

Holy ****, you really came onto something by comparing Niang and Robinson.
 
Niang and Robinson dont really have a similar skill-set.

Niang was a point-forward his whole life and in the G-League. He's a pretty crafty scorer on all levels who can make plays with the ball, he just doesnt really get to show it in the NBA because it isnt going to be efficient enough. In the NBA his role is a bit more refined to being a floor spacer. He can do some off-motion stuff, but it's not really his game. He is good at shooting against close-outs, but not aggressive closeouts.

Robinson is a straight shooting specialist who can shoot off motion at an elite level with defenders right in his air-space (like one of a very small handful of guys who still shoot in the 40's when a guy is within 2-4 feet on volume). He's played the same role at probably every level he has ever played.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Woah bro, are you telling me your physical body matters in sports?

Holy ****, you really came onto something by comparing Niang and Robinson.
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Lots of interesting takes.

Also kinda interesting when I look and see that the Jazz are starting two 6’1” guards—one of whom is on a speed train to defensive ineptitude.

Can you tell us how you think this physical body stuff matters?
 
NAOS said:
Lots of interesting takes.

Also kinda interesting when I look and see that the Jazz are starting two 6’1” guards—one of whom is on a speed train to defensive ineptitude.

Can you tell us how you think this physical body stuff matters?
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There are two places in the starting lineup where we can improve a lot defensively...

The bench defense can be addressed with exceptions and tweaks... if we are giving Mike and Bojan major minutes I don’t know that we ever get back to top 7-8 status.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
There are two places in the starting lineup where we can improve a lot defensively...

The bench defense can be addressed with exceptions and tweaks... if we are giving Mike and Bojan major minutes I don’t know that we ever get back to top 7-8 status.
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Fairly easily. Mitchell has to try more then the rest of the team will follow. Conely isnt the sieve yall make him out to be.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Fairly easily. Mitchell has to try more then the rest of the team will follow. Conely isnt the sieve yall make him out to be.
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Yes if DM would try harder then Mike would grow, Bojan would get more athletic, and Joe would find the fountain of youth.

DM can be better but dude expends a ton of energy on offense. He should get the easiest defensive matchup but that often goes to Mike. We are last in the league in deflection and loose balls recovered... steals and blocks we are near last. We need to get bigger and more athletic regardless of how hard DM tries.

DM needs to give more effort and attention to defense but Rudy is going to have to go back to the stifle tower as well. He got super pouty for a couple weeks... right or wrong your guy Jimmy wouldn’t do that. Rudy can lead too.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yes if DM would try harder then Mike would grow, Bojan would get more athletic, and Joe would find the fountain of youth.

DM can be better but dude expends a ton of energy on offense. He should get the easiest defensive matchup but that often goes to Mike. We are last in the league in deflection and loose balls recovered... steals and blocks we are near last. We need to get bigger and more athletic regardless of how hard DM tries.

DM needs to give more effort and attention to defense but Rudy is going to have to go back to the stifle tower as well. He got super pouty for a couple weeks... right or wrong your guy Jimmy wouldn’t do that. Rudy can lead too.
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Yeah, I never said we didnt. The idea that Conley is this huge defensive negative that limits us from being a top defensive team is ludicrous.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Fairly easily. Mitchell has to try more then the rest of the team will follow. Conely isnt the sieve yall make him out to be.
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Conley is being hidden. The vast majority of the time, that means he’s taken off the ball. And, given Mitchell’s load offensively, he usually isn’t assigned to the primary ball handler. So, the whole defense is shifted further in the direction of poor matchups OR we just bleed and try to out score the opponent.

Your stubbornness in acknowledging these dynamics has been.... funny?
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yeah, I never said we didnt. The idea that Conley is this huge defensive negative that limits us from being a top defensive team is ludicrous.
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I mean if he’d try harder on defense the rest of the team would follow... he’s a veteran leader.
 
NAOS said:
Conley is being hidden. The vast majority of the time, that means he’s taken off the ball. And, given Mitchell’s load offensively, he usually isn’t assigned to the primary ball handler. So, the whole defense is shifted further in the direction of poor matchups OR we just bleed and try to out score the opponent.

Your stubbornness in acknowledging these dynamics has been.... funny?
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It's just funny that we can't acknowledge the short comings of a player.... We went from Ricky taking the most difficult assignment in the backcourt to having a guy you needed to hide a little. He isn't a sieve he's just tiny and his backcourt mate is tiny.

This is part of DL's problem is he does nothing to address obvious issues and then overreacts. His drum he's beating this offseason is find guys with defensive integrity that don't compromise spacing... you mean 3 and D? You mean putting guys that can space the floor and help on defense would be good to put around your all-star combo guard and defensive anchor center... HOLY ****! WHAT A CONCEPT! HAS ANY OTHER TEAM THOUGHT OF SUCH A CONCEPT!

We went with the clogged toilet bowl of non-shooters of Ricky, Rudy, Favs... maybe one of Ricky and Favs could survive with another shooter and provide some awesome value... instead of tweeking it at some point we wait until we are out of runway and over-correct and add both Conley and Bojan. We are probably better but not sure it isn't partly just organic growth for DM and it was super expensive to get there. We knew that even with a ****** shooter like Jae that those lineups were nails. We had plenty of data. Yet we stayed with it.

When you are building a team around two stars you should make all of your major acquisitions with fit in mind. Mike helps DM on offense but not a ton more than Joe does and causes issues on defense. DM needs to be the smallest guy on the court to really be maximized... been saying it since last year. If that means he trends more towards a pg because big pgs are hard to find then okay... but build with that ideal in mind. Instead we overpaid for Mike... I was okay at the time, but didn't like the overpay. If we didn't owe that extra pick it'd be fine right now. I had wondered out loud last year if we needed a true pg around DM or if we could make due with Joe/Satoransky or guys in that tier.

This thread wasn't meant for ranting about Conley... Just that we have a lot more questions than we should.
 
Ben Wightman said:
It's not him ALONE. It's him paired with Donovan in the backcourt as well as Bojan in the starting lineup. A compound effect.
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Mike is just the biggest stumbling block with our planning imo. I don't think he's washed, useless, any of that... Just wish we were willing to pivot. History with DL has told me we won't even consider it.
 
The Jazz were a better team withOUT Conley, and that’s with our horrendous depth.

I just can’t conceive of how anyone can spin this yarn about the greatness of Mountain Mike. It seems quite obvious the problems are very significant if they are to offset his strengths which ARE legit.
 
NAOS said:
Conley is being hidden. The vast majority of the time, that means he’s taken off the ball. And, given Mitchell’s load offensively, he usually isn’t assigned to the primary ball handler. So, the whole defense is shifted further in the direction of poor matchups OR we just bleed and try to out score the opponent.

Your stubbornness in acknowledging these dynamics has been.... funny?
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This might be crazy, but hear me out: what if instead of having a primary ball handler who’s small and relegated to the role of a spot-up guy, you instead had a guy who shoots as many threes but is a career 40%+ shooter from deep (OPJ), and on the other side of the ball, instead of hiding a 6’, you instead have a versatile 6’8” guy who can guard multiple positions and is a better defender than anyone on our team not named Gobert (also OPJ)?
 
infection said:
This might be crazy, but hear me out: what if instead of having a primary ball handler who’s small and relegated to the role of a spot-up guy, you instead had a guy who shoots as many threes but is a career 40%+ shooter from deep (OPJ), and on the other side of the ball, instead of hiding a 6’, you instead have a versatile 6’8” guy who can guard multiple positions and is a better defender than anyone on our team not named Gobert (also OPJ)?
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Don't be silly... its Mike EFFING Conley... lolz roflmao smdh
 
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