Following potential 2012 draftees

[orangello]

I think I'm officially on the "I want Perry Jones" bandwagon.

I seem to recall a while back reading on this thread that it has been decided (by those who know) that Jones is a PF, not a SF. Sorry for bringing it up again if it's already been hashed out, but if somebody's in this camp could you please tell me why Jones won't be an NBA SF? Does he lack lateral quickness (like Jeremy Evans) and would thus have trouble guarding the SF position? Is his frame filling out too quickly to really expect him to retain his quickness? Is there something lacking offensively for the SF?

This is all probably moot, since I can't see him going lower than 3 in the draft this year and I don't expect the Jazz to be that bad. But could you imagine a squad in 3 years with Burks, Hayward, Jones, Favors, and Kanter?

I think we need to distinguish the difference between Terrance Jones and Perry Jones III. My vote is tjones and pj3.

I am also on the pj3 bandwagon. A front line of Kanter, Favors and Pj3 would almost be too much to handle.

For me the best part is thinking that if we don't get Pj3, then we might still have a chance to land MKG. Either way the Jazz come out winners.

I know it is more of a dream, but the season is still very early.

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[Jazz4ever]

I think I'm officially on the "I want Perry Jones" bandwagon.

I seem to recall a while back reading on this thread that it has been decided (by those who know) that Jones is a PF, not a SF. Sorry for bringing it up again if it's already been hashed out, but if somebody's in this camp could you please tell me why Jones won't be an NBA SF? Does he lack lateral quickness (like Jeremy Evans) and would thus have trouble guarding the SF position? Is his frame filling out too quickly to really expect him to retain his quickness? Is there something lacking offensively for the SF?

This is all probably moot, since I can't see him going lower than 3 in the draft this year and I don't expect the Jazz to be that bad. But could you imagine a squad in 3 years with Burks, Hayward, Jones, Favors, and Kanter?

Why would he be an ideal SF? He doesn't have the perimeter game that is expected of a SF, no three point shot at all. He is 6'11" and will fill out to 250 lbs.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Update of the UK starters from tonight's game (all are lottery or fringe).

PG - Marquis Teague - 11pts, 8 asts, 1rb, 1st, 1to
SG - Doron Lamb - 24pts, 6rbs
SF - Kidd-Gilchrist - 17pts, 8rbs, 6asts, 1st, 1bk
PF - TJ got hurt (not season-ending)
C - Anthony Davis - 14pts, 18rbs, 5bks

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I think I'm officially on the "I want Perry Jones" bandwagon.

I seem to recall a while back reading on this thread that it has been decided (by those who know) that Jones is a PF, not a SF. Sorry for bringing it up again if it's already been hashed out, but if somebody's in this camp could you please tell me why Jones won't be an NBA SF? Does he lack lateral quickness (like Jeremy Evans) and would thus have trouble guarding the SF position? Is his frame filling out too quickly to really expect him to retain his quickness? Is there something lacking offensively for the SF?

This is all probably moot, since I can't see him going lower than 3 in the draft this year and I don't expect the Jazz to be that bad. But could you imagine a squad in 3 years with Burks, Hayward, Jones, Favors, and Kanter?

The question is whether PJ3 is quick enough or defensive-minded enough to play SF. He could be an Odom-like combo-forward depending on match-ups. He's not really been a natural post player, more like a mid-range version of Dirk Nowitzki, but he seems to be developing that aspect of his game. (By that, I mean you could bet money that he'll pull up from 5 - 10 feet and shoot a jumper rather than go to the rim.) I'm guessing NBA coaches would want to play him at the PF. I'm impressed with his steals and assists.

 

[Jazz4ever]

Here is a breakdown of Barnes game someone did on another site. I think it raises a lot of red flags that he cannot be a first or second option in the NBA:

Through the Tar Heels’ first ten games, Harrison Barnes’ scoring efficiency on catch-and-shoot/0-dribble possessions is a robust 1.51 points per possession. This includes a sizzling 55.6 percent from behind the 3-point arc.
On possessions in which he takes a single dribble, Barnes’ efficiency falls off to 0.81 points per possession.
When using multiple dribbles, it drops further to 0.66 points per possession. With 2+ dribbles, Barnes is shooting just 31.3 percent through 10 games with an assist-to-turnover ratio of 0.33 (3 assists, 9 turnovers).

 

[Dr. Jones]

Here is a breakdown of Barnes game someone did on another site. I think it raises a lot of red flags that he cannot be a first or second option in the NBA:

Through the Tar Heels’ first ten games, Harrison Barnes’ scoring efficiency on catch-and-shoot/0-dribble possessions is a robust 1.51 points per possession. This includes a sizzling 55.6 percent from behind the 3-point arc.
On possessions in which he takes a single dribble, Barnes’ efficiency falls off to 0.81 points per possession.
When using multiple dribbles, it drops further to 0.66 points per possession. With 2+ dribbles, Barnes is shooting just 31.3 percent through 10 games with an assist-to-turnover ratio of 0.33 (3 assists, 9 turnovers).

That's horrid. We do not need a guy that can't create his own shot from the wing. At least not a starter/go-to guy that can't ..

 

[cowhide]

Yea, I am not that big on Barnes but he started off slow last year. I just don't see the "it" factor in the kid. I prefer Kidd-Gilchrist because he just has the demeanor to be a guy who steps up big. I know KG has to work on his shot but he does other things to help the team to win.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I am treading very cautiously here, but thought I'd mention a fun fact on Teague.

Every bit the same as Rose, Evans, Wall, and Knight, Teague was absurdly bad to start his freshman season under Calipari. Now, 10 games in, it's almost a mirror image of what we've seen with his predecessors. Teague started his first four games (against inferior competition) with 11 assists and 18 to's. In his next six games he's now at 35 asts and 9 to's. Whether it's fool's gold, I don't know, but that's quite a massive turnaround.

 

[Bodhi]

That's horrid. We do not need a guy that can't create his own shot from the wing. At least not a starter/go-to guy that can't ..

Again, like I said, a spot up shooter that's painfully average athletically, for NBA standards.

 

[Revolution 9]

I am treading very cautiously here, but thought I'd mention a fun fact on Teague.

Every bit the same as Rose, Evans, Wall, and Knight, Teague was absurdly bad to start his freshman season under Calipari. Now, 10 games in, it's almost a mirror image of what we've seen with his predecessors. Teague started his first four games (against inferior competition) with 11 assists and 18 to's. In his next six games he's now at 35 asts and 9 to's. Whether it's fool's gold, I don't know, but that's quite a massive turnaround.

What are your thoughts on us getting Teague? I've only seen one full game this year, but I like his ability to get to the hoop.
Is he too much like Devin Harris? No jumper? Seems like his passing skills are decent.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Tony Wroten had another good game this week (27/7rb) and is getting some buzz. He plays more as an SG, but has passing skills and could be a combo.

Also, just wanted to point out that Brandon Knight looked pretty good in his first pre-season game. He's not going to cross up and dunk on people like rose or Wall, but he's plenty quick for the PG spot, and he has good timing and anticipation. He looks quicker than D.Will. I'm not overly concerned with getting a guard that has jet-speed. IQ and all-around skill matter more.

 

[idiot]

Why would he be an ideal SF? He doesn't have the perimeter game that is expected of a SF, no three point shot at all. He is 6'11" and will fill out to 250 lbs.

Ideal skills for a SF is what I was thinking. You may be right. I haven't seen anything but highlights. He sure has the speed and handle for a SF. I thought I've read that he has some possibilities for developing a perimeter game, though it's not strong yet. But if he has quickness to be SF, I still say you've got to put him there, even without a strong perimeter shot.

I think if you put him at PF, he'll be a disappointment. He doesn't bang or rebound well.

 

[Dr. Jones]

What are your thoughts on us getting Teague? I've only seen one full game this year, but I like his ability to get to the hoop.
Is he too much like Devin Harris? No jumper? Seems like his passing skills are decent.

I'm leaning to hell no. He has definite upside, but, imo, is not in the same galaxy as those that came before him. Wall, Evans, Rose, all were obvious .. Teague is not.
I'd take him in the 15 - 20 range of the draft. He'll be a fringe starter is my guess. PG's suck for maybe THREE years, starting with this coming draft.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Tony Wroten had another good game this week (27/7rb) and is getting some buzz. He plays more as an SG, but has passing skills and could be a combo.

Also, just wanted to point out that Brandon Knight looked pretty good in his first pre-season game. He's not going to cross up and dunk on people like rose or Wall, but he's plenty quick for the PG spot, and he has good timing and anticipation. He looks quicker than D.Will. I'm not overly concerned with getting a guard that has jet-speed. IQ and all-around skill matter more.

Blazing speed may not be important, but for me, first-step is crucial. I love Brandon, but he stagnated the offense at times in the half-court .. just not great getting by his man. Having said that, his shot made up for a lot of that.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Ideal skills for a SF is what I was thinking. You may be right. I haven't seen anything but highlights. He sure has the speed and handle for a SF. I thought I've read that he has some possibilities for developing a perimeter game, though it's not strong yet. But if he has quickness to be SF, I still say you've got to put him there, even without a strong perimeter shot.

I think if you put him at PF, he'll be a disappointment. He doesn't bang or rebound well.

Yep, he's a tweener. Doesn't have elite handles for the SF position, nor the shooting. Passing is good, but not too elite SF level. I think he'd excel as a PF. He has the size to defend and is a mismatch on the other side of the ball.

 

[idiot]

Yep, he's a tweener. Doesn't have elite handles for the SF position, nor the shooting. Passing is good, but not too elite SF level. I think he'd excel as a PF. He has the size to defend and is a mismatch on the other side of the ball.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he seems to have a whole lot better handles than Thurl Bailey, and Big T spend the majority of his career as a 6-11 SF. Probably doesn't have Thurl's shot, though.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he seems to have a whole lot better handles than Thurl Bailey, and Big T spend the majority of his career as a 6-11 SF. Probably doesn't have Thurl's shot, though.

BB is different now. Not sure what else to say. I like PJIII, I just don't think he projects all that well at SF .. except for the 'certain matchups' equation.

 

[Dr. Jones]

This was the dunk of the night. A missed shot rebounded and *gulp* putback by Davis.

 

[spycam1]

That's horrid. We do not need a guy that can't create his own shot from the wing. At least not a starter/go-to guy that can't ..

Yeah, at this point, KG has separated himself from Miller and Barnes in my mind.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

It's hard to find a "prototypical SF" to be honest, and if you try too hard to the perfect one, you might end up drafting badly--e.g., Dorell Wright, Donte Greene, Jeff Green, etc. Grant Hill looked like the prototypical SF, but he couldn't shoot outside. Glenn Robinson was a shooter, but didn't play defense and couldn't drive. Gerald Wallace has nice defense and hang time, but lacks shooting touch. TMac was an offensive machine, but didn't play defense. Jamal Mashburn was a decent prototype for an SF, as was Scottie Pippen, but Pippen was a shaky outside shooter. Josh Howard is a decent all-around SF in terms of skill set. I guess Kevin Durant is the new standard, unless you want a power-3 like Carmello, but even Durant lacks post skills and is a so-so passer.

When it's all said and done, the SF position might actually have the least direct impact on winning games, just based on where he's positioned on the floor in most sets. We may be better off deciding if we're looking for a shooter, a slasher, a defender, a facilitator, a rebounder, etc. and see if we can find someone with 2 or 3 of these skills. Assume everyone is going to have pluses and minuses. I would assume having a guy who can play defense, run out on breaks and hit open looks is the ideal.

The lure of Perry Jones is to get a guy who has a couple unguardable moves 10-feet from the hoop, and also has the ability to dump the ball off to cutters or post players. Anything else he gives you, in terms of rebounds, defensive plays, etc. is a bonus.