Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

[stitches]

Say it with me: Walker Kessler, Jared Vanderbilt and Simone Fontecchio.

Jared Vanderbilt was a starter on a playoff team last season. Walker Kessler might not play at all. Fontecchio ... who knows?

 

[NUMBERICA]

All those dudes moved like 7'4 people though and were close to 300 pounds. So not super comparable.

I think Vic is said to be around 210-220 now, so his mature playing weight will probably be around 230-240.

Length (height) is still leverage, though. You don’t have to necessarily weigh a ton to be on the wrong side of leverage with long enough levers. You could even argue that weight in the form of strength is necessary to both play the game functionally and to weather the rigors of all the movement and contact.

Manute Bol was also light. He was not great. Who else are candidates? Shawn Bradley? Porzingis is probably closest enough to be comparable and he tore his ACL, took forever to get back to the court, and just hasn’t been the same.

 

[homeytennis]

Can't we trade everyone for something of value and play the NBA season with last year's Stars roster?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think we can duck Orlando. Paolo is going to have an impact with Franz and Wendell, and they may get something from Jonathan Isaac this year. They still have guards who can make plays, including Markelle Fultz who may be getting a bit underrated.

We might even be able to duck Detroit, though that could be close.

Yeah.. not sure how I missed Houston. Detroit, Orlando, will surprise people. Indiana may fall below us as well.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Yeah and I mean the odds are not crazy different from like 5/6 to bottom 3. Ainge can do what he wants here... I will trust the Evil Emperor.

San Antonio, Orlando, OKC (but maybe not), Utah, and I think Charlotte will be the big players in the "Tank 23 for Wemby" campaign. All have better or comparable rosters to us. We fine either way.

San Antonio will be our biggest competition for the worst record. The other teams have a lot more talent than us.

 

[margodydek]

I've got to buy a Simone Fontecchio jersey. This could be epic.

He needs a cool nickname, like Gelatto. Cool, smooth and Italian.

Italian Ice

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Jared Vanderbilt was a starter on a playoff team last season. Walker Kessler might not play at all. Fontecchio ... who knows?

Vanderbilt is a defense/rebounding specialist who can't score outside of putbacks. Trust me, he's not going to change our win total. He's like Brandon Clarke with half the scoring.

The Jazz don't have a starting center right now. We have Walker Kessler and Udoka Azubuike who still isn't cleared to play yet. Put Rudy Gay into the mix too if you want.

 

[stitches]

IMO we still need a lot of work to do before we are considered a true tanking team. We still have players that can win you games on the roster. They won't win tons... but they will win enough to screw up our Wemby sweepstakes.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Italian Ice

Now he needs his jersey to have an outlier number on it, like 28 or something.

 

[LogGrad98]

Length (height) is still leverage, though. You don’t have to necessarily weigh a ton to be on the wrong side of leverage with long enough levers. You could even argue that weight in the form of strength is necessary to both play the game functionally and to weather the rigors of all the movement and contact.

Manure Bol was also light. He was not great. Who else are candidates? Shawn Bradley? Porzingis is probably closest enough to be comparable and he tore his ACL, took forever to get back to the court, and just hasn’t been the same.

Sorry but Manure Bol just stunk.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Sorry but Manure Bol just stunk.

****ing autocorrect. But nicely played.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Length (height) is still leverage, though. You don’t have to necessarily weigh a ton to be on the wrong side of leverage with long enough levers. You could even argue that weight in the form of strength is necessary to both play the game functionally and to weather the rigors of all the movement and contact.

Manute Bol was also light. He was not great. Who else are candidates? Shawn Bradley? Porzingis is probably closest enough to be comparable and he tore his ACL, took forever to get back to the court, and just hasn’t been the same.

Sure, but you got to look at movement quality.

Vic has excellent movement quality and he's in a pretty sweet spot for weight where his bon structure is big enough to add weight and get stronger, but isnt going to be a ton of weight.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

IMO we still need a lot of work to do before we are considered a true tanking team. We still have players that can win you games on the roster. They won't win tons... but they will win enough to screw up our Wemby sweepstakes.

We probably need to move PatBev and Malik Beasley.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Cy tends to go too far sometimes. Like we know Donovan isn’t a top-10 player but acting like he isn’t a floor raiser or a better player than Shai is too much for me.

Just like you take things too far by being scheming

 

[NUMBERICA]

This is worth considering. The Jazz can tank and still have Donovan on the roster. Look at OKC with SGA. Jazz don't need to be in a rush to move Donovan. Surround Mitchell with guys like one of the Thompsons, Dereck Lively, and Jarace Walker, then pass the torch when Mitchell wants to move on.


View: https://twitter.com/bwfanzzz/status/1549795207582912512

Because Donovan is (supposedly) better than SGA and most importantly, closer to the end of his NON-rookie deal on a team that is just BEGINNING to tank.

The timelines and contract status are not at all comparable.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Just like you take things too far by being scheming

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Locke today said Adidas doesnt want Donovan causing problems for his brand (remember, his brand is built around humble/lowkey/"Determination over Negativity"), so that is a big reason Donovan isnt going to publicly request a trade.

 

[stitches]

We probably need to move PatBev and Malik Beasley.

Players that IMO we need to move in order to tank(+Mitchell of course):
- Mike Conley
- Bojan Bogdanovic
- Patrick Beverley

Players that IMO we don't need to move in order to tank, but if we have good offers for we should move them:
- Jordan Clarkson
- Malik Beasley
- Jared Vanderbilt

 

[NUMBERICA]

Okay fine... 25 games. I just don't think we would go 100% scorched earth and Donovan... think we'd keep some of that.... could be wrong.

Also just want to point out that outside of the top-4 picks, order IS determined by how bad your record is. So if you are TERRIBLE and have the 5th worst record but don’t get into the top-4, then you draft 9th. So yeah, those wins on the margins matter a lot.

I want a guaranteed top-5 pick.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Because Donovan is (supposedly) better than SGA and most importantly, closer to the end of his NON-rookie deal on a team that is just BEGINNING to tank.

The timelines and contract status are not at all comparable.

Jazz should move Donovan, for sure, it just doesn't have to be this offseason. It could be next offseason. Jazz need to move him when there's a team that's anxious enough to do the deal we want. Let the urgency build.

When the Knicks are below .500 half way through the season and Leon Rose's job starts to become insecure, then they'll be motivated to close the deal. When the Brooklyn Nets are about to explode, they'll be motivated to reach for Donovan in a three-way trade. When the Kings are still outside the playoffs and their GM is on the hotseat, they might make a reach for Donovan.

Jazz will strike when the iron's hot enough. Ainge is really good at reading the market. Right now, everyone is going on vacation.