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2023 NBA Draft Megathread

HermanG said:
Its amazing the length local law enforcement goes to exonarate local sports stars.

How can they not charge him for anything?

Also btw the coach knew the whole story all along. Said "wrong place, wrong time".
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The coach should be fired immediately. There is no excuse for protecting scumbags.
 
KqWIN said:
My answer to that would be, "what makes him an NBA PG?". I guess I have more of an issue with comparing him to guys like Lonzo and Giddey....forget about positions. It's one thing to say "this guy is a PG because he is great at the things PG do" and another to say "this guy is a PG because a PG doesn't have to do these things". Lonzo and Giddey are high level passers and fit into the first group, Black is not that level of prospect IMO. I think his ball handling and passing are decent for a guy who is 6'7, but if he was 6'1 I wouldn't think of him as a great PG prospect based on his PG skills. He is impressive when compared to other 6'7 guys, but not necessarily impressive to all PG prospects.

Positions are just a label and don't matter at the end of the day. IMO, comparing him to Lonzo/Giddey in terms of being a PG is like comparing his shooting to Bane/Huerter or some other high level shooter. I have similar skepticisms about his PG/lead ball handler skills as I do with his shooting. Black's shooting is not terrible and his traditional PG skills aren't either, but it's no guarantee he becomes NBA level in either area. You could argue his traditional PG skills are ahead of his shooting, but the point still stands. I think it's unfair to compare him to guys are truly high level because they happen to be the same size. It's kinda like when people kept comparing Ivey to Ja last year. They just completely ignored the fact that Ja was an elite playmaker from the get go and Ivey was nothing close to that.

Caruso and Beverley are PGs....but so are Conley and FVV and also Kevin Porter JR and Dinwiddie. The label means very little, and you can better define a players position by what they do and don't. If Black is your PG, you're likely going to need a super usage/lead ball handler elsewhere. In other words, if he's your PG you need someone else to do a lot of the PG stuff. You'd be just as accurate calling him a wing.
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Yeah... I have a higher opinion of him as a playmaker and ball handler. No matter what he is called I think he will play much more like a pg than a wing. Its all fluid positionally but I think high usage guards are easy to find and Black fits perfectly in a backcourt with guys like Sexton or JC... or Dame. I think he is a good passer (maybe not amazing). I think its easier to get a high usage guard as the primary scorer/playmaker than it is to get a guy that can guard wings and organize the offense. I don't see many wings that play like Black at all... which is why the "I'm not sure he's a point guard" thing is confusing. I think you could run him with a high usage scorer or another pg pretty easily... I also think he has more scoring chops than he is showing.

I think some compared him to Iggy... I think Black is more of a pg than he is.

I'm fine with folks not being all that in on Black but the point guard thing is the thing that kinda had me puzzled. I think he'd have no problem doing it full time... he could also be a wing full time... and there aren't a lot of dudes in the league you can say that about.
 
HermanG said:
Its amazing the length local law enforcement goes to exonarate local sports stars.

How can they not charge him for anything?

Also btw the coach knew the whole story all along. Said "wrong place, wrong time".
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The full quote from the coach "wrong place, wrong time... it doesn't matter that he willing put himself into a situation he knew was the wrong place and is one of the main reasons it became the wrong place and the wrong time"

Okay I added the other part but that should have been the quote.
 
sip said:
Well my opinion of Miller just cratered. What a scumbag for bringing someone a gun that he knew was likely to be used that night. To bad his coach didn't have the balls to discipline him for being such a piece of ****. Hopefully this article forces the coaches hand and he gets kicked off the team.
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What info you got? We don't know what Miller thought was going on. Maybe he thought he was bringing a gun for his friends self defense.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yeah... I have a higher opinion of him as a playmaker and ball handler. No matter what he is called I think he will play much more like a pg than a wing. Its all fluid positionally but I think high usage guards are easy to find and Black fits perfectly in a backcourt with guys like Sexton or JC... or Dame. I think he is a good passer (maybe not amazing). I think its easier to get a high usage guard as the primary scorer/playmaker than it is to get a guy that can guard wings and organize the offense. I don't see many wings that play like Black at all... which is why the "I'm not sure he's a point guard" thing is confusing. I think you could run him with a high usage scorer or another pg pretty easily... I also think he has more scoring chops than he is showing.

I think some compared him to Iggy... I think Black is more of a pg than he is.

I'm fine with folks not being all that in on Black but the point guard thing is the thing that kinda had me puzzled. I think he'd have no problem doing it full time... he could also be a wing full time... and there aren't a lot of dudes in the league you can say that about.
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I make the distinction/concern about him being a PG because I'm not sure he's a guy who will have the ball in his hands a lot. I mean, if he's next to JC/Sexton/Dame....that's kinda the point right? He's a wing that provides more ball handling than a strict 3&D player, but he doesn't stand alone as a PG IMO. Like if you surrounded him with 3&D players, that team would struggle. If he's your PG, it means you're passing off a lot of the PG responsibilities to another player and the wing responsibilities to Black. Like I said, it doesn't really matter what you label him as...it comes down to attributes and offensively I think it remains to be seen how much he can actually have the ball in his hands and create. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that he will be able to create at the NBA level. I definitely don't think he's going to walk into the league and be one of the best passers like Lonzo/Giddey. I don't see him in that regard. I still have him high on my board, but I do have the concern that he might be best with the ball because his shooting is lacking....but he's also not someone you want to have with the ball in their hands. Kinda like how THT is right now to some extent.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
What info you got? We don't know what Miller thought was going on. Maybe he thought he was bringing a gun for his friends self defense.
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I would encourage you to look at the rest of the story.
 
KqWIN said:
I make the distinction/concern about him being a PG because I'm not sure he's a guy who will have the ball in his hands a lot. I mean, if he's next to JC/Sexton/Dame....that's kinda the point right? He's a wing that provides more ball handling than a strict 3&D player, but he doesn't stand alone as a PG IMO. Like if you surrounded him with 3&D players, that team would struggle. If he's your PG, it means you're passing off a lot of the PG responsibilities to another player and the wing responsibilities to Black. Like I said, it doesn't really matter what you label him as...it comes down to attributes and offensively I think it remains to be seen how much he can actually have the ball in his hands and create. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that he will be able to create at the NBA level. I definitely don't think he's going to walk into the league and be one of the best passers like Lonzo/Giddey. I don't see him in that regard. I still have him high on my board, but I do have the concern that he might be best with the ball because his shooting is lacking....but he's also not someone you want to have with the ball in their hands. Kinda like how THT is right now to some extent.
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I think I get it... I just don't agree with some of it. Wings that pass and create seem really rare... whereas guys that Black would be great next to seem abundant. Even if he isn't an "every down" creator I think he is very much a point guard.

I just think he could do his brand of point guard next to Trae, Kyrie, Donovan, Dame, Garland, Luka etc. A lot of those point guards would thrive next to a pass first point guard and his defense would cover up some holes. He'd also work well with Zach Lavine, Bradley Beal types... So I get that he isn't likely to be a volume scorer but I'd rather have that than what George would project to bring.

I look at it as he could be your point guard in a pass first organizer type of way... he could also thrive next to a pg, sg, wing that is a primary scorer and take some creation off their plate. I do think his passing is better than his assist numbers show... I've watched 5-6 games and am truly amazed at how little space there is or the 1-2 games he sets guys up with layups and the pass is bobbled.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I believe I've seen all the information but could have missed something. I don't think anything has been said of Millers knowledge of the situation other than his friend/teammate asked for a gun.
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View: https://twitter.com/RyanSSterritt/status/1628114080656392192



So his car was used to essentially block the path of the other car... he gave them a loaded gun... it sounds more likely he was an accomplice than an innocent guy helping a friend. Maybe these are false accounts of what happened... but I'm comfortable saying he is much more than an innocent guy helping a friend protect himself. Either way you look at it this is a huge red flag on judgement.
 
HermanG said:
Its amazing the length local law enforcement goes to exonarate local sports stars.

How can they not charge him for anything?

Also btw the coach knew the whole story all along. Said "wrong place, wrong time".
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Too bad there are no laws about aiding and abetting or anything like that. We should look into some of those, right?
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
What info you got? We don't know what Miller thought was going on. Maybe he thought he was bringing a gun for his friends self defense.
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"Hey man, bring me a gun, yeah now. Ok 15 minutes is fine. I am pretty sure I will need to defend myself with firepower in 15 minutes. Yeah. No I can't just leave, I have to stay here to protect myself."


Seems plausible.
 
sip said:
What a dumb comment. If you think your friend is in danger then you tell them to leave or call the cops. You don't bring them a ****ing gun.
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Imagine his friend... "hey I'm in a tight spot... can i borrow your car and a loaded weapon?". How about I just come pick you up and take you home.

If you have time to deliver a loaded weapon then that friend probably has time to just effing call the police or leave. They were the instigators here and Miller helped... did he know someone would get shot? I don't really care.
 
LogGrad98 said:
"Hey man, bring me a gun, yeah now. Ok 15 minutes is fine. I am pretty sure I will need to defend myself with firepower in 15 minutes. Yeah. No I can't just leave, I have to stay here to protect myself."


Seems plausible.
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Also gonna need your car to setup an ambush of this threat.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Also gonna need your car to setup an ambush of this threat.
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"Yeah, pretty sure when I need to defend myself I will need to block in another car, you know, so I can protect myself by not letting them get away."
 
LogGrad98 said:
"Yeah, pretty sure when I need to defend myself I will need to block in another car, you know, so I can protect myself by not letting them get away."
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I will be surprised if he is not charged with something here. If I was drafting him I would need to know exactly what happened here.
 
YoungJefe said:
Miller is a college kid, I highly doubt that he went there that night knowing he was going to be an accessory for murder.
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Probably not... but he provided a loaded weapon and a vehicle to a buddy that was used in a murder. Not knowing what will happen really doesn't matter. Say he had just gotten wasted and killed someone while driving under the influence... its still manslaughter.
 
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