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Should Obama stop this?

Should Obama stop HC jobs growth?

  • No, healthcare costs should continue growing

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • Yes, these jobs are a detriment to the economy

    Votes: 2 66.7%

  • Total voters
    3
I disagree.
Reason being is one of the major causes of Autism happens to be the heavy metal mercury.
Most vaccines contain a preservative called "Thimerosal", which contain this heavy metal.

I'm sure you do disagree. You're just wrong. it's not a matter of opinion, conjecture, or religious belief. It's a matter of evidence, chemistry, and biology.

1) Mercury poisoning does not cause autism.
2) Thimerosal is an organic compund that contains mercury, buts does not contribute to mercury poisoning.
3) Thimerosal was removed from vaccines years ago, in response to the outcry of people like you, even though there was no evidence to justify it. Predictably, the removal of thimerosal from vaccines has left the autism incidence rate unaffected ("predicatbly", because thimerosal was never a cause to begin with, and making public health decisions on bad evidence means making bad decisions).
 
I'm sure you do disagree. You're just wrong. it's not a matter of opinion, conjecture, or religious belief. It's a matter of evidence, chemistry, and biology.

1) Mercury poisoning does not cause autism.
2) Thimerosal is an organic compund that contains mercury, buts does not contribute to mercury poisoning.
3) Thimerosal was removed from vaccines years ago, in response to the outcry of people like you, even though there was no evidence to justify it. Predictably, the removal of thimerosal from vaccines has left the autism incidence rate unaffected ("predicatbly", because thimerosal was never a cause to begin with, and making public health decisions on bad evidence means making bad decisions).

1) Mercury poisoning absolutely causes a whole host of problems as with most vaccines it builds up in the brain over time with additional vaccines.
2) The problem with cut and dry evidence, chemistry, and biology is the fact that it's always a theory of the time..... and evidence, chemistry, and biology all contradict themselves as the years pass, and doctors think they understand more about it. It's always theory.
3) This is also an incorrect statement.
The so-called H1N1 vaccine that we were all supposed to get, or everyone will die of the plague scenario had the ingredient thimerosal directly listed on the insert.
Autism as well as many many other diseases have continued to go up in number ever since vaccines have become widely administered.
Also, the mercury that is contained in these vaccines is not naturally occuring... it is mostly bi-product of most metal smelting processes just like the added flouride in our water and toothpaste is.
 
1) Mercury poisoning absolutely causes a whole host of problems as with most vaccines it builds up in the brain over time with additional vaccines.
2) The problem with cut and dry evidence, chemistry, and biology is the fact that it's always a theory of the time..... and evidence, chemistry, and biology all contradict themselves as the years pass, and doctors think they understand more about it. It's always theory.
3) This is also an incorrect statement.
The so-called H1N1 vaccine that we were all supposed to get, or everyone will die of the plague scenario had the ingredient thimerosal directly listed on the insert.
Autism as well as many many other diseases have continued to go up in number ever since vaccines have become widely administered.
Also, the mercury that is contained in these vaccines is not naturally occuring... it is mostly bi-product of most metal smelting processes just like the added flouride in our water and toothpaste is.

1) Like any other element, mercury occurs in different compounds, and these compuonds interact with the body in different ways. In pure form, both iron and carbon are poisonous. In various organic compounds, they are essential to our health. Similarly, elemental mercury is toxic, but thimerasol is not.

2) The problem with abandoning theory is that you leave behind what you can be reasonably sure of for conjecture, whimsy, cognitive biases, and fantasy. It's like trading in you 12-year-old car for a unicorn, and having the dealer tell you it's been delayed at the breeding factory, but he'll let you when it's ready. It never seems to grow up.

3) With the exception of flu vaccines, thimerasol has been removed. It ws removed from MMR, Hib, etc. It's not made-up, it's fact. Autism incidence has not decreased. It's not made up, it's fact.

The most common explanation for the increase in autism diagnoses is diagnostic substitution. Forty years ago my eldest son would have been labeled "retarded", 15 years ago it was PDD-NOS (an autism-spectrum disorder).

You seem to be confusing "organic compound" with "natural".
 
1) Like any other element, mercury occurs in different compounds, and these compuonds interact with the body in different ways. In pure form, both iron and carbon are poisonous. In various organic compounds, they are essential to our health. Similarly, elemental mercury is toxic, but thimerasol is not.

2) The problem with abandoning theory is that you leave behind what you can be reasonably sure of for conjecture, whimsy, cognitive biases, and fantasy. It's like trading in you 12-year-old car for a unicorn, and having the dealer tell you it's been delayed at the breeding factory, but he'll let you when it's ready. It never seems to grow up.

3) With the exception of flu vaccines, thimerasol has been removed. It ws removed from MMR, Hib, etc. It's not made-up, it's fact. Autism incidence has not decreased. It's not made up, it's fact.

The most common explanation for the increase in autism diagnoses is diagnostic substitution. Forty years ago my eldest son would have been labeled "retarded", 15 years ago it was PDD-NOS (an autism-spectrum disorder).

You seem to be confusing "organic compound" with "natural".

Ok, so I will agree with you in the fact that I wasn't referring to an "organic compound", as opposed to the word "natural".
Now at the same time.... I'm not saying that a mercury type preservative in vaccines completely cause all these things, but it definitely contributes.
The vaccine itself is cause for a whole host of auto-immune disorders, in some cases cells actually attacking each other.
To say that anyone knows what exactly causes autism, would be insanely ahead of themselves.
All I'm saying is there are plenty of studies out there linking mercury from vaccines to many many disorders.
I'm not going to explain how vaccines are made, because I'm sure you already know.
Seriously, do you really want this substance injected into your children's bodies?
https://www.naturalnews.com/026779_vaccine_flu_virus.html
 
So, you're posulating the existence of a slew of auto-immune-diseased people with no dicernible symptoms. Is that like the minature elepahts that make electricity work?

Also, people are not being slow to accept vaccines cause autism, because when you use the same diagnostic criteria for both the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups, levels of vaccination show no correspondance to levels of autism.

I think a response like this proves why non-professionals shouldn't discuss anything they can't have published in peer-reviewed journal, in theory.

You're caught like a little hampster in a rotating cage.

If our professionals in government and science were indeed looking at things on their true merits, you would of course be doing OK to just let them advise and inform and educate the public and their representatives. Where you and I disagree hangs on that "if".

But when our professional societies like the ACS, AMA, and other disciplinary leaders for any reason become biased, it all goes out the window. Unless there is enough willingness to openly challenge contemporary "settled" issues, everyone is just unwilling to risk being mocked the way you mock things you don't understand.

In the late sixties, I had and read a book called "The New Brahmins" which went into some informed criticism of establishment trends in science at that time, and it has only gotten worse. Part of the reason it has gotten worse is because science is dependent on government grants, and those grants are being handed out with political objectives on the front burner. It's "Publish or Perish", and you have to get those grants, so you have to fall in line with the political trends or you'll become a "nobody" real quick.

Another reason why science has deteriorated in politically sensitive areas of enquiry has to do with corporate and foundational grants or "Chairs", which is money coming from private sector interests which is almost always, today, with strings attached. If you're in the area of medicine, those grants come from Big Pharma and other medical corporates with specific real agendas. Scientists are little monkeys dancing for their corporate organ grinders, complete with frilly little tutus.

Yet another reason why science is not real science sometimes has to do with the whole "Peer Review" system and the ownership and advertisers in the Journals they publish. Take a look at any recent publication of this sort, and ask yourself what determines acceptance in these journals. Again, I think it has a lot to do with sponsorship and current fashions in politics.

In any economic system, if you reward any kind of behavior financially, you will get more of it.

Your little ivory tower of "All is Well" with our authoritarian system might keep you warm and enthused with your participation in it all for a while. Few people will bite the hand that feeds them, and I guess I'd be expecting too much for you to seriously question everything you get from the system you are plugged into.

In the specific case of autism studies, there is a lot of money invested in the vaccine business, and those folks will pay good money for scientists, especially those with credentials to beat the band, to weigh in with any study to deny the connection.

And let's put it this way. Binding coefficients for antibodies range from practically nonspecific and ineffective, to very very specific and effective. If there are a hundred proteins in the media, you would have millions of epitopes, or specific loci of binding to an antibody. What your body does is produce a whole range of antibodies with highly variable binding characteristics in one region, and an invariant backside. If an antibody binds to something, the actual destruction that ensues comes from a macrophage cell which recognizes the backside and knows it's bound to something, and so attaches itself and begins to release a lot of powerful digestive juices that will break down a viral particle or a bacterial cell wall, and will send back a signal for the production of more of this type of antibody. "Immunity" experiences some decrease in effectiveness over time for some pathogens, and in fact there are changes going on in the various pathogens which means a new variety might come along that might not "draw fire" from the antibodies you have to the old version.

But it's just silly to imagine that even highly efficient and specific antibodies won't sometimes find a place to bind on your natural "self" proteins. Well, actually, there is evidence that your immune system has feedback controls that have from a very young age "learned" not to attack "self" substances, but however good this system may be, it experiences degeneration with age within it's own set of functional proteins, as well as adverse effects from foreign proteins from the whole range of environmental chemicals and lifeforms we are exposed to, or even from our diet or from say vaccinations. In fact, some theories of aging include accumulated side effects of immune responses as a reason why we age.

This is a type of medical treatment that should be used sparingly, where the risks of the disease greatly outweigh the adverse possible effects. Preferably where our other resources for treatment have serious deficits as well.

And yes, indeed, Big Pharma folks put out a huge fortune to keep this type of thinking out of the news.
 
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Mercury is bad.

I'm not so worried about the mercury. None of us in the Mad Hatters' Union want to be deprived of our "highs".

Seriously, there are real factors as OB was saying that affect its impacts. Another thing is whether it's an acute high dose or a chronic low dose. We can handle chronic low doses somewhat because our bodies will respond to it's presence activating production of inducible "metallothioneins" which will sequester it and help to eliminate it.

I think it is fairly well known that infants are particularly vulnerable to mercury, and as a statement of fact the change in the vaccination preservative was not so long ago. I think about five years or maybe seven years. The lead time between a causitive agent and autism could be that many years or more, plus or minus about as much, with some individuals showing up within a year or two, others maybe not for ten or twelve years. I'd keep looking at the other epidemiologically plausible links to our greatly increased diagnostic incidence of autism. I'm just skeptical enough to refuse to rule out the entry of the disease in the list of diagnoses as the greatest "cause", with a whole lot of folks just thinking they're OK if a little strange until someone hangs a label on them.

But injecting mercury into infants is just beyond the pale of irresponsibity in my book.

Going all vaccine-manic and having courts and schools order it for everything imaginable is irresponsible too, and a clear abuse of "authority" to the detriment of individual rights.
 
I'm not so worried about the mercury. None of us in the Mad Hatters' Union want to be deprived of our "highs".

Seriously, there are real factors as OB was saying that affect its impacts. Another thing is whether it's an acute high dose or a chronic low dose. We can handle chronic low doses somewhat because our bodies will respond to it's presence activating production of inducible "metallothioneins" which will sequester it and help to eliminate it.

I think it is fairly well known that infants are particularly vulnerable to mercury, and as a statement of fact the change in the vaccination preservative was not so long ago. I think about five years or maybe seven years. The lead time between a causitive agent and autism could be that many years or more, plus or minus about as much, with some individuals showing up within a year or two, others maybe not for ten or twelve years. I'd keep looking at the other epidemiologically plausible links to our greatly increased diagnostic incidence of autism. I'm just skeptical enough to refuse to rule out the entry of the disease in the list of diagnoses as the greatest "cause", with a whole lot of folks just thinking they're OK if a little strange until someone hangs a label on them.

But injecting mercury into infants is just beyond the pale of irresponsibity in my book.

Going all vaccine-manic and having courts and schools order it for everything imaginable is irresponsible too, and a clear abuse of "authority" to the detriment of individual rights.

I agree with most of what you have to say.
But the biggest thing I agree with is the forced vaccination agreement.
I could care less what other people inject into their kids, because it's not my problem I suppose.
It makes me sad, but it's not my right to decide.
As far as my children go....
I should never be forced to vaccinate my child just because someone else was scared into vaccination by the media whores.
This is exactly the reason the department of education needs to be desolved, and education needs to be left up to the states along with every other law.
This way laws can be voted upon, and not mandated.
 
Are we also aware that Hitler put flouride into German citizens drinking water to make them more docile?
As well as vaccinated them in order to sterilize women?
This is history of Nazi eugenics, and it continues all over the world.
 
Wait... what?

If Autism can be caused by mercury, the most reasonable "exact cause" would be exposures in infancy and to some lesser extent as the age increases, simply because our bodies do develop levels of mercury-, or other heavy metal- binding proteins called metallothioneins, which are induced by the presence of heavy metals in the body. It would be reasonable to believe an infant would be protected from exposure by the placenta before birth, and would only begin to develop the capacity to render mercury inert only after being born. The reason lead was banned as a pigment base in paint was because kids chew on stuff and scrape things on walls, and it was being found to be having effects on kids, and more than on adults. That's the reason Chinese scum sweatshops using cadmium or lead paints lose workers to poisonings, and why we have to take a close look at imported kid toys with bright colors in the plastics or on the surfaces.

Heavy metals like mercury and lead are known to have impacts on nerve development or to cause axon death. I'm sure we could get some researchers debating further details, but within some reasonable level of simplification, we do know mercury and lead are neurotoxins involved in adverse pathologies of many kinds in our brains.

And we've known that since the sixties or seventies pretty well. So using lead in vaccines required by medical protocols for newborns is just totally unjustifiable. If we had a decent court system, the vaccine makers would be held responsibe to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, even billions.

We'd be a lot better off if we put these people out of business and secured judgments against everything they own, and just let some newcomers move into their market, knowing they have to be responsible providers.

Overall, this would be the simplest way to remove the Rockefellers from everything they have, and clear the deck for Constitutional government once again. Ah, but they just buy up judges like cheap tomatos.
 
I'm sure you do disagree. You're just wrong. it's not a matter of opinion, conjecture, or religious belief. It's a matter of evidence, chemistry, and biology.

1) Mercury poisoning does not cause autism.
2) Thimerosal is an organic compund that contains mercury, buts does not contribute to mercury poisoning.
3) Thimerosal was removed from vaccines years ago, in response to the outcry of people like you, even though there was no evidence to justify it. Predictably, the removal of thimerosal from vaccines has left the autism incidence rate unaffected ("predicatbly", because thimerosal was never a cause to begin with, and making public health decisions on bad evidence means making bad decisions).

So here is a short treatment of thimerosol toxicity.

https://vran.org/about-vaccines/vaccine-ingredients/mercury-thimersol-neurodevelopment-outcomes/

There is a report also of an aspartame/thimerosol synergistic effect, which is reasonably expected because anything that can reversibly bind and transport mercury in some manner could plausibly affect toxicity and effects inside the Blood/Brain barrier.

In short, thimersol is an organomercury compount containing an ethylthiomercury group. While such binding directly reduces effects in some circumstances, it also enables transport into the brain, where the ethylthiomercury is released and becomes even more damaging than simple ethylthiomercury.

You should be especially willing to question research coming out of that Sloan-Kettering/University of Rochester, NY groupies, generally considered the best there are anywhere. These are the Rockefeller stiffs who did the human trials with unknowing black prisoners in the south, inducing and following the course of Syphillus. The Rockefellers are also directly connected through major financial holdings in the German pharmaceutical outfits that ran the WWII concentration camps. The family patriarch of the Bush dynasty, Prescott Bush, working for Brown Brothers Harriman in 1932 carried a satchel of $20M to Adolf Hitler, funding his rise to power, just before the Reichstag Fire. It's time we put these fascists out of the loop in this country.
 
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I know most of these facts, but I can not just keep going on and on.
I think vaccines are all part of the plan to reducing our global popualation, and the Builderberg Group controls the whole policy.
The CFR, the Trilateral Commision and and the U.N. control the rest......

That is all, and I'm going to continue and get drunk for the night.

Rock on babe ;)
 
Well, so I spent some time looking at recent Autism research tonight.

Yes, it looks like there is a solid "consensus" by "respected authorities" and a preponderance of "peer-reviewed research results" published to the effect that there is no correlation between the MMR vaccine in particular, or vaccines in general with or without thimerosol preservative, and autism.

I looked at epidemiological studies around the world, and saw authorities hotly arguing about whether the observed increase in autism was the result of simple reporting phenomena. I looked at the diagnostic criteria in use, and how that has changed. Well, of course you get more autism when you expand the definition and start looking at a range of related disorders, as ASD currently is on the books. The classification has been expanded.

I looked at the controversy about how the data is being collected, and how that confounds efforts to discuss anything in a meaningful way. You've got a lot of trendy professionals in schools and in counseling/psychiatric professions who are quite liberal in their use of the terms, and you've got lots of products being thrown at the market to "help".

I did not see any research that actually tablulated the age at each vaccination, or the specific vaccination given. That alone means there has been no competent research done yet which would control for the most important variables in the whole hypothesis. . . . . age and dosage.

I also saw no effort to describe, let alone measure or control for, the other important factors like other exposures to mercury or heavy metals, say from natural sources, contaminated Chinese products for children, parental exposures say particularly in the mom during pregnancy.

I did see heredity being held out as a known positive correlation factor, estimated to be causitive in about one of six cases.

All in all, this is not a specific disease caused by a known pathogen with an understood course of development. It is a category of ailments we have created in our minds and called "autism" or ASD. We have defined it, but we keep expanding the definition, and we like to use this term over some other, older, known conditions. Yes, the problems it describes are real, but they likely come from a variety of causes we are just going to have a lot of trouble linking solidly to the results.

And all this is good for the makers of vaccines. I'm sure they love having the adverse effects of their products lost in a sea of ambiguity and confusion defying the best efforts at investigating their problems. Nope, there will be no research funded anytime soon that will be competent to answer the question here.
 
Mercury is bad.

I'm not so worried about the mercury. None of us in the Mad Hatters' Union want to be deprived of our "highs".

Seriously, there are real factors as OB was saying that affect its impacts. Another thing is whether it's an acute high dose or a chronic low dose. We can handle chronic low doses somewhat because our bodies will respond to it's presence activating production of inducible "metallothioneins" which will sequester it and help to eliminate it.

I think it is fairly well known that infants are particularly vulnerable to mercury, and as a statement of fact the change in the vaccination preservative was not so long ago. I think about five years or maybe seven years. The lead time between a causitive agent and autism could be that many years or more, plus or minus about as much, with some individuals showing up within a year or two, others maybe not for ten or twelve years. I'd keep looking at the other epidemiologically plausible links to our greatly increased diagnostic incidence of autism. I'm just skeptical enough to refuse to rule out the entry of the disease in the list of diagnoses as the greatest "cause", with a whole lot of folks just thinking they're OK if a little strange until someone hangs a label on them.

But injecting mercury into infants is just beyond the pale of irresponsibity in my book.

Going all vaccine-manic and having courts and schools order it for everything imaginable is irresponsible too, and a clear abuse of "authority" to the detriment of individual rights.

Ummm. Mercury is, uh, ok?
 
If Autism can be caused by mercury, the most reasonable "exact cause" would be exposures in infancy and to some lesser extent as the age increases, simply because our bodies do develop levels of mercury-, or other heavy metal- binding proteins called metallothioneins, which are induced by the presence of heavy metals in the body. It would be reasonable to believe an infant would be protected from exposure by the placenta before birth, and would only begin to develop the capacity to render mercury inert only after being born. The reason lead was banned as a pigment base in paint was because kids chew on stuff and scrape things on walls, and it was being found to be having effects on kids, and more than on adults. That's the reason Chinese scum sweatshops using cadmium or lead paints lose workers to poisonings, and why we have to take a close look at imported kid toys with bright colors in the plastics or on the surfaces.

Heavy metals like mercury and lead are known to have impacts on nerve development or to cause axon death. I'm sure we could get some researchers debating further details, but within some reasonable level of simplification, we do know mercury and lead are neurotoxins involved in adverse pathologies of many kinds in our brains.

And we've known that since the sixties or seventies pretty well. So using lead in vaccines required by medical protocols for newborns is just totally unjustifiable. If we had a decent court system, the vaccine makers would be held responsibe to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, even billions.

We'd be a lot better off if we put these people out of business and secured judgments against everything they own, and just let some newcomers move into their market, knowing they have to be responsible providers.

Overall, this would be the simplest way to remove the Rockefellers from everything they have, and clear the deck for Constitutional government once again. Ah, but they just buy up judges like cheap tomatos.

This entire response was apparently due to my "wait... what?" post. To clarify, I was making fun of TheSilencer's posts first claiming that nobody can say for sure what causes autism and them just a couple posts later saying without doubt that immunization is a major cause. He seems to be an expert at being all over the place... and conspiracy theories.
 
I'm not saying that a mercury type preservative in vaccines completely cause all these things, but it definitely contributes.
The vaccine itself is cause for a whole host of auto-immune disorders, in some cases cells actually attacking each other.
To say that anyone knows what exactly causes autism, would be insanely ahead of themselves.
All I'm saying is there are plenty of studies out there linking mercury from vaccines to many many disorders.
I'm not going to explain how vaccines are made, because I'm sure you already know.
Seriously, do you really want this substance injected into your children's bodies?
https://www.naturalnews.com/026779_vaccine_flu_virus.html

How do you know "it definitely contributes" when the mercury has been removed and the problem remains unabated.

There are no scientific studies out there linking autism to mercury nor to vaccines. The one published study was pulled from the Lancet for fraud.

Yes, I keep all my children vaccinated, including for flu. I don't trust cranks and purveyors of nonesense, such as Mike Adams over at natural news, with my health. I strongly suggest you read some blogs by actual doctors on the subject, such as Respectful Insolence or White Coat Underground.
 
... Again, I think it has a lot to do with sponsorship and current fashions in politics.

...

In the specific case of autism studies, there is a lot of money invested in the vaccine business, and those folks will pay good money for scientists, especially those with credentials to beat the band, to weigh in with any study to deny the connection.

...

This is a type of medical treatment that should be used sparingly, where the risks of the disease greatly outweigh the adverse possible effects. Preferably where our other resources for treatment have serious deficits as well.

1) Do you any experience in the grant award process, or even the writing of grants? If not, why does what you think about the process carry any wieght?

2) Vaccine manufacturers are have been pulling out of the market becasue they are not hugely profitable.

3) The death rate for measles is small, but it is real. Vaccination brings the rate to basically zero. Not to mention, vaccination also protects people who are genuinely immuno-compromised.
 
If we had a decent court system, the vaccine makers would be held responsibe to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, even billions.

Actually, as a response to the public hysteria, we have a special court just for people to discuss vaccine injuries, and it has lower standards of evidence for plaintiffs than normal courts have. Even with the reduced standards of evidence, the connection of thimerasol to autism was untenable.
 
So here is a short treatment of thimerosol toxicity.

These are the Rockefeller stiffs who did the human trials with unknowing black prisoners in the south, inducing and following the course of Syphillus. The Rockefellers are also directly connected through major financial holdings in the German pharmaceutical outfits that ran the WWII concentration camps.

Sorry, but you're not going to persuade me with evidence from VRAN, or any other site that proclaims we have studies connecting vaccines and autism. The site shows every indication of crank thinking. It makes you stupider just for reading it.

German pharmaceutical outfits did not run German WWII concentration camps, the Nazi military ran them.

Bad behavior by a subset of the medical establishment does not provide evidence for an autism-thimerosal link. That's the opposite of critical thinking. I don't trust the "medical establishment", I trust the evidence.
 
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